So is she insecure about the baby and just not telling me or is this pretty normal?

[Cranky Kitten]

DD is 9 years old. Since she was 2 she has lived with her Dad (XP) and spent every second weekend at my place. Last year DH and I got married after having been together for about 2.5 years, living together for 2 years. She adores DH, gets along really well with him and he dotes on her which completely makes me melt. She's also been talking about a baby brother or sister for quite a while now.

On and off over the years she's asked about coming to live with me, or now me and DH. Last year we sat down with her, her Dad and the two of us to discuss this and agreed that it will most likely be when she starts high school - so about another 3-4 years away. Currently both DH and I work fulltime whereas XP works part-time to fit in with DDs school hours and can be there for her before and after school.

The last couple of months or so she's been saying how much she misses me and that she cries sometimes because I'm not there. I've reassured her that she can ring me any time she wants to even if it's just for a chat before bed. If I can't answer straight away because of work I'll call her back when I can. XP I know supports this.

About 3 weeks ago I found out I am pregnant after having been trying for about 6 months or so. DD knew we were trying for a baby all along, and we told her a couple of weeks ago. So far she's been extremely sweet and considerate of me, telling me to make sure I'm careful etc to look after the baby and seems really excited.

But this weekend she's been a bit of a handful, not listening to us and just pushing the envelope as far as what's expected of her - we don't really expect much other than to tidy her room, make her bed and keep her bathroom tidy (toys away, clothes in the wash). Then when we dropped her off at Dad's she kept asking if she could stay with us, crying and so on.

I don't know, is she possibly a bit insecure about the idea of a new baby, or am I reading too much into it? Anyone got any advice on making sure she's not feeling left out or anything when bub does arrive that's suited to an older child rather than a toddler?

[MrsBexie]

I wish I had some cool advice, but considering i have never been in the situation I don't really know.

ut maybe taking her for some special mummy daughter time would help calm any fears she has? Like go have a "coffee" (milkshake etc) with her so she knows nothing will change between you guys??

Congrats on the pg!!!!

[PumpkinZulu]

Not sure about whether she feels insecure about the pregnancy (congratulations!) but to me it sounds like she might be in the very early beginnings of puberty, and perhaps with the emotional changes that are starting, she is feeling drawn more towards her mummy than her dad

[MrsBexie]

Oh that's a good point!!!!! Puberty can make kids do some funny things!

[~Stoked~]

Not sure about whether she feels insecure about the pregnancy (congratulations!) but to me it sounds like she might be in the very early beginnings of puberty, and perhaps with the emotional changes that are starting, she is feeling drawn more towards her mummy than her dad

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Congratulations!

[Cranky Kitten]

Eeeek I didn't even think of that!

Thanks girls, I think I'll just stay close and available, but consistent with the household expectations.

[Artechim]

If I were in her situation I would probably be jealous. You are telling her that it doesn't suit for her to live with you atm, but then you are getting a baby who can live with you. I know you must have your reasons, but to a 9 year old it must seem like you rearranging things for the baby but won't do the same for her.

I don't mean to be harsh or anything, just giving my opinion.

[Kazzo]

If I were in her situation I would probably be jealous. You are telling her that it doesn't suit for her to live with you atm, but then you are getting a baby who can live with you. I know you must have your reasons, but to a 9 year old it must seem like you rearranging things for the baby but won't do the same for her.

I don't mean to be harsh or anything, just giving my opinion.

This is what I thought first too.

[Yeddi]

I don't think it's the baby, especially if she was asking on and off before you knew... but there is something about what you've written, I don't know, it makes me... uncomfortable. I could be reading too much into it, or it could just be the phrasing... I don't know.

How is her relationship with her dad? Could there be something going on there that makes her not want to live with him anymore but she wouldn't feel free to voice it in a group meeting about where she's going to live? Clash of personalities, girlfriends she doesn't like, neighbours giving her a hard time, something else again... It would be interesting to see what SHE would choose if you gave her the private option of living with you but having to go into care before and after school or staying with your XP - asking her at a time when you are alone with her (just the two of you), and she feels safe. If she was happy to go into an after school program instead of staying with her dad, alarm bells would be going off for me.

[Heaven]

If I were in her situation I would probably be jealous. You are telling her that it doesn't suit for her to live with you atm, but then you are getting a baby who can live with you. I know you must have your reasons, but to a 9 year old it must seem like you rearranging things for the baby but won't do the same for her.

I don't mean to be harsh or anything, just giving my opinion.

I thought the same.

[fionas]

Agree with Artechim. If I was her, I'd find it very hard to fathom why a baby can live with you but not her. Very hard.

[ladybirdflies]

Sounds Like the Nine Year old change to me. We are deep in it at our house. Below is a piece I found that you may like.
Parenting the Nine Year Old

This article by Rahima Baldwin Dancy on "Parenting the Nine Year Old" describes the developmental changes of the nine-year-old child and how parents and Waldorf education meet this psychological stage. It first appeared in Mothering, Summer, 1989.]

Parents of nine year olds often wonder, "What is happening to my child?" Children at this age can become very critical and argumentative, or very moody and withdrawn. Nightmares, irrational fears, headaches and stomachaches often arise. Some children feel as if no one at school likes them, or others become suddenly self-conscious about being rich, poor, or otherwise "different." Parents may be accused of being unfair or of not understanding, as the child rushes off and slams his or her door.

Searching for an explanation for the changes in behavior, parents sometimes blame a new teacher, a recent move, changes in the family such as separation or the birth of a sibling, or simply "growing pains". An understanding of what is actually taking place can help us avoid needless worry and provide the support and guidance that children need during this time.

What is Happening?
The special needs of the nine year old are the result of an important change in consciousness that marks the end of early childhood and the transition to a new developmental phase. Rudolf Steiner, the founder of Waldorf education, states, "In the ninth year the child really experiences a complete transformation of its being, which indicates an important transformation of its soul-life and its bodily-physical experiences."

Earlier, before the age of five or so, the child has a dreamlike state of consciousness in which the outer world and inner experience end to flow together. Outer events are not "observed," but are deeply taken in through unconscious imitation. Whereas babies learn nearly everything through imitation, kindergarten-age children continue to imitate many aspects of their world, such as the movements of the teacher or parent.

While the power of imitation is so strong, the child feels united with the world and experiences no sense of aloneness. But with the loss of this power around the age of nine, the child feels separated from the world. Something that was hidden and slumbering begins to awaken. Nine year olds suddenly have a strong experience of themselves as separate beings, with a new feeling of distance from the world and other people. This sense of self, first experienced around age two-and-a-half, recurs now in a much deeper way, as the inner emotional life of the child begins to develop.

Although children react differently to leaving the sweet, dreamlike world of early childhood, one response is nearly universal: children become more conscious of their surroundings. You will probably find that what was once passed by unnoticed is suddenly focused on and questioned. This awakening to the world may be met with quiet astonishment or sharp criticism, depending on the child's temperament.

A critical child may notice whether the statements people make are grounded in the real world or are a veneer. He or she may begin to question parents and teachers, wondering, "How do they know everything?" and, indeed, "Do they really know everything?" Something in the child is seeking reassurance that the authority of the adult will stand the test of quality, and that it carries an inner certainty.

In contrast, another child may become more withdrawn and start to look under the bed at night, or may have frequent stomachaches in response to this new sense of being alone. Parents whose children suddenly want to be alone often feel as if they are "losing" their children, as if the children no longer want to share their developing inner worlds. This is a time when intimations of mortality and death can enter a child's consciousness. Religious questions and concerns about good and evil may also emerge with the child's increased self-awareness and sense of choice and responsibility.

Usually, within six months after the ninth birthday (and sometimes earlier), the children are profoundly aware of this new sense of separateness between the self and the outer world. As the "I" penetrates into awareness, children begin to experience themselves as self-contained beings. The often feel as though they are in a threshold situation, poised, as it were, on the cusp of their own destiny. A 70-year-old woman wrote of this time in her life: "In this year I had a significant I-experience. I had just come from school in the city and had to change trams. In this moment of waiting, the complete certainty came to me that now all of life lay before me and that I was the one that must travel it.

Essentially, the nine year old is experiencing his or her own identity-to become a separate individuality, able to confront the outer world. Ideally, the child comes through this difficult time with a sense of connection with his or her higher self, a kind of "knowing" that will remain even after the heightened awareness is integrated.

My son spent many difficult months in the throes of "the nine-year change." One night, as he popped out of bed for the third time, I had to muster great self-control to say, "What now?" "I'm glad I'm me!" he announced, radiating like the sun. He went on to explain, "It's just like the song "The Age of Not Believing." The words of the Disney song ran through my mind: "You must face the age of not believing, doubting everything you ever knew. Until at last you start believing, there's something wonderful in you." We all shared in his joy and thanked God that family life could once again return to normal.

Parenting Tips
What can parents do to help their child through this important turning point at age nine?
- Understanding what is happening will help both your child and yourself as a parent. When both parents, or parents together with the teacher, consider a child and his real needs, it can help give the child balance. Be patient-- this, too, shall pass. Ten is a wonderfully harmonious time between the crisis at age nine and adolescence, when the next intensifying of self-consciousness occurs.
- Be willing to let your child have her own inner emotional life. You can't "fix it." Honor her need for privacy or her sudden impatience with a younger sister. Be willing to let go and tolerate distance. Your relationship is changing and will improve again once alterations have been completed. Be nearby with understanding and reassurance that she is still loved.
- Share your thoughts with your child about things that go beyond the every-day affairs of life. But don't limit your child by providing "answers" or definitions that can't grow within the child when asked about things like God or death.
- Have faith in self-healing, in your child's ability to come through this phase. Support individual artistic activity that attracts your child (writing poetry, keeping a diary, drawing or painting, music).
- Support your child's interest in the world by providing opportunities to build things, visit a farm, plant a garden, do work in the real world. Encourage a connection with the plant and animal kingdoms and with simple human creative activities now before the child explores the world of technology, which is more appropriate for adolescence.
- Nourish your child with stories that illustrate the interconnectedness of life and the powers of fate and destiny. The story of Joseph and his coat of many colors has this element of the dream heralding his destiny and the patience he needed to see it manifest. In the curriculum of the Waldorf schools, the Old Testament stories are .told in third grade because they mirror 2- the inner state of the nine-year-old child. The creation story, for example, describes the child's own experience of leaving the paradisiacal realm of early childhood, acquiring new self-awareness, and with it the added dimensions of choice and increasing responsibility for one's actions. In fourth grade the heroic tales of the Norse myths represent the exploits of the new ego in larger- than-life fashion. The Waldorf curriculum also introduces the child to the world through projects in house-building, farming, and the study of the plant and animal kingdoms, not as abstract sciences, but in relation to the human being.
- Recognize that the child needs to establish a new respect for adult authority that goes beyond the blind acceptance of the younger child. Parents can encourage this by honoring a child's new relationship with a teacher or other adults in his life. Steiner states, "What matters is that at this moment in life, the child can find someone--whether this be one person or possibly several persons is of less importance--whose picture it can carry through life."(3) Parents can also help themselves be this kind of authority by presenting a united front to the child and by both sitting down with the child when questions of discipline arise (single parents may want to bring in a teacher or other adult during this time).

The magnitude of the changes that a child of this age is going through can be better understood if you contemplate the differences between the child of seven and the child of twelve. The seven year old is light-hearted and always in movement. The limbs are active for learning (through touching, doing, walking the times tables, and so forth). In contrast, the head is relatively large and still dreamy. The seven year old is just beginning to get adult teeth. His or her emotions are easily influenced by impressions from the world, with tears changing to smiles relatively easily.

The twelve year old, on the other hand, has a head that is very awake for thinking and longer limbs which seem heavy, tired, and often awkward to control. There is a rich and sometimes over-powering inner emotional life; the older child brings a great deal more to each experience. Physically, the sexual organs are beginning to mature as the child enters puberty.

The nine-year-old is in the middle between the world of early childhood and the world of adolescence. The physical and emotional changes which you may observe in your nine-year-old child are the outer manifestations of the tremendous change in consciousness which is going on within the child's expanding inner world. By understanding the nature of these changes, we can better provide support in parenting the nine year old.

Awakening to the world and a new sense of self brings with it a new need: to understand the real world of everyday life, while at the same time long for intimations of something beyond ordinary life. As parents and teachers, our task is to become loving authorities for the growing child, sharing both a true picture of the world and a sense of our own inner striving.

[nothing2lose]

Artechim wrote my exact post!!! Imagine how she must feel after having asked to live you, being told no and then you getting pregnant with a child who she knows will live with you full time. I have a dd the same age and I think girls that age want/need their mums.

Is there any reason you can't have her with you for more time? Because, honestly, you only get one shot at the relationship with your kids. If I were her I would feel a bit rejected.

[nothing2lose]

Sorry just wanted to add that I think it is entirely possible for her not to be in touch with her feelings so she may be excited about the prospect of a sibling but deep down be feeling a bit abandoned and rejected.

Certainly that is how my dd felt when her dad had two more dds after we split. And she has never wanted to live with him!

[*Sparklez*]

Being in a situation where i have my eldest children but often these days im lucky to see them once a week, due to their boy issues and him being better equipped to deal with them, i am getting your dd's plight..
My boys are 10 and 9 this yr and they are crazy about their dad and he left us for another woman whom has another child ( not his), my kids always had resentment towards him and always would act out due to the abandonment and other issue's.

I dont mean to sound mean and i dont mean to be patronising but i totally agree with artechim... too her she is seeing her mum build another family with out her in it, and to her it probably seems that this baby is going to have you from day one and she is still waiting till she is old enough to be part of it. this is going to be a very tricky situation and if she is feeling like this its only going to get worse, and alot more harder once this baby comes..
Although she may be hitting puberty, she is going to be riding all the hormones that are going to make her alot more difficult to understand and also its going to affect her alot more due to her going through puberty...

[Cranky Kitten]

Interesting points. I can see how that could cause insecurity/jealousy and were it solely my choice I'd be open to having her come to live with us a bit earlier. I had hoped that by having a definite timeframe for the move these type of problems would be alleviated. We haven't said no you can't ever come live with us, but more a now isn't the right time.

Yeddi - her relationship with her Dad is excellent. As is her relationship with her extended family on that side, she often spends time with Grandma and Grandad plus a heap of aunties and cousins. I have absolutely no concerns as far as anything untoward happening when it comes to her Dad - I was abused by my own father as a child and I can say if I had the slightest tiniest doubt about my ex as a father she wouldn't be with him.

She has had some trouble with bullying and an unsupportive school environment lately, so we are now in the process of moving her into a private school nearby - so yes, there's a lot happening in her life at the moment. I am hoping that she will be able to come over more often during the week and spend more time with us when I'm on leave but bringing forward when she will move permanently is something that I'd really need to discuss at length with both DH and her Dad.

[MummyNaomi]

I totally agree with Artechim too

Have you considered re-evaluating the living situation - perhaps now is the right time for her to be with her Mum, in 3-4 years she will be a young woman (girls grow up so quickly these days) and you risk leaving it too late. By making time for a newborn and not your 9yo in your busy life you are sending your 9 year old a very strong message Simply, I guess from the outside looking in it seems you are prepared to make room in your life for a new child you don't even have yet instead of the one you do.

Just trying to let you consider a totally different perspective on the situation - your 9yo is probably wondering about some of these things

[Miss.September]

I'm with the other replies too. My parents split, and my dad ended up with two boys from his new partner (his step-children) who lived with him full time. It broke my brother's heart.