If you're not vaccinating, what do you tell people?

[Cherished]

What do you tell people who ask about why you're not vaccinating? I have a feeling this is going to come up at my mothers group tomorrow. Only one girl in the group knows that we have not vaccinated DS and we have given him homeopathics. It is not something that I have hidden and it's not a topic that has been discused in the group. Last week one mum asked if DS has had his 6 months injectoins and all I said was no. Then 30 seconds later she asked if I was giving them to him at all with a rather worried tone in her voice and again all I said was no. She didn't ask anything else but call it intuition, I have am pretty sure she wasn't impressed! I overheard another mum down the other end of the table one day a couple of months ago saying that she didn't want to take her DD to a play group until she was 6 months and has had her last whooping cough injection incase there was an UNVACCINATED child there who could give her DD whooping cough I didn't bother saying anything as I wasn't involved in the discusion and she clearly didn't know the facts.

Anyway what do you tell people who ask "why aren't you vaccinating"? It's a conversation I don't particularly want to have especially with people who aren't really interested in the answer (I'm sure you know the ones I'm talking about).

[BellyBelly]

Because I researched my choices and made an informed decision that myself and my partner are happy with.

If they vaccinate why should they worry their children will get it? There has been plenty of outbreaks from vaccinated kids to make that argument null and void.

[AngelPants]

pretty much what kelly said lol the worst for judging ive found is dr & nurses (who really should know the facts!!) god forbid mentioning alternative therapies!!!

[Lily Dust]

If they vaccinate why should they worry their children will get it?

That is the biggest point that I make!!!
I make a point of explaining that I done a lot of research and feel that this is the best decision for my child at this time. I can go into all the 'reasons' but usually people have huffed at me and have no interest in that part anyway

But at the end of the day I do not have to justify my actions to anyone except myself and my child. I do know how you feel though, hun, sometimes others can be so cruel and it makes things all that much harder. Obviously you feel that this is the best thing for your child or you wouldnt be doing it!

[Junglemum]

I don't tell them anything. I don't talk about it to people who might have an issue with my decisions.

Having said that, that argument does have merit. No vaccine is 100% effective. It just reduces the risk of getting something and perhaps the severity. So i think people are within their rights to be concerned about being around my child who might not be vaccinated. I am an increased risk to them if my child is unvaccinated as i am more likely to get that particular illness. My MG was half and half though, half vacc and half didn't. We all knew and nothing much more was said, but if anyone had a slight illness they didn't come to mg.

[Cherished]

Thanks girls. If I say something with a friendly tone along the lines of "your bub has all their shots now so there's no need for either of us to worry" I hope I'll get a better reception and perhaps I can say something like "we've researched this topic for years and in both of our professions have seen somecases which made us question vaccination. With what we have found we decided not to vaccinate with medical drugs as we are not happy with what some of the side effects can be" But even saying this is tricky as I don't want the people I'm talking to thinking that 'they' have done the wrong thing with 'their' babies kwim. There is such a fine balance in not offending them, making my position known and relieving some of their ''fears'. I guess at the end of the day they will just need to get over it and I will have to hold my head high in my beliefs. If they don't want to be around DS It's really no different to me wanting to move away from someone who has just had a swine flu shot

An example of the not offending people thing or saying things that can upset them is my parents. They were telling me that my brothers kids arent' vaccinated as their mum coulnd't be bothered doing it and i told them that DS wasn't vaccinated. They did actually want to know why which is a nice change but when I was telling them a whole bunch of reasons I mentioned SIDS then realised that I may have really upset them. They lost a baby at 6 months perhaps I should have left that one out, but hey they did want to know all of our reasons. I guess I'm not going to know what has gone on in other peoples life to know what will strike a nerve with them. Another example is Autisum, I could tell someone that is a side effect I'm not willing to risk and if they have a child with autisum then I don't want them feeling like it's their fault I don't mind telling people my reasons if they really do want to know but it's so different to telling someone who is asking and JUDGING you at the same time and basicaly demanding a reason for your choice.

Anyway, keep the advice coming....

[onthefly]

I don't think you really need to justify yourself. You can always turn the question around and ask why they are vaccinating...
We do vax, but not 100%. The nurse asked why and I just said we decided not to get those ones. And that was that.
I know first time round we got everything with DS and the truth was, I just hadn't thought about it enough to actually make a decision, so I just went along with the schedule. I assume if someone doesn't vax (or only partially) then they have obviously thought about it and come to a conscious decision.

[Catherine]

I know how you feel. Tomorrow, if it comes up in a direct question: something along the lines of "for our situation, it is the best choice for us"/ If they probe further, add some details that you feel are appropriate. For example, if it comes up that you are putting their children at risk, use the words Kelly suggested - the research backs up this. I would keep my answers to a minimal response and only anwser direct questions. I would not try to educate them (IYKWIM) as that would come across as justifying yourself (which you don't have to do) and possibly even offensive (as you pointed out).

In my own experience, with my relos (our parents and siblings), when asked why we were not vaccinating: I answered matter-factly with :"I breastfeed, which provides immunological protection. They do not attend childcare, so are not in a high-risk of exposure. If they are sick (ie on the very rare occasion that they have a sniffle), we stay home. We practise good hygiene and and inturn teach they to do the same. We eat well (most of the time)." They accepted this. Over Xmas last year, our vaccinated cousin tested positive for whooping cough, their household was put on precautionary antibiotics, the course finished on xmas day. So despite our planned xmas, we delayed it til boxing day - they accepted this (even though they were annoyed), but I said that vaxed or not, we would have stayed away, as vaxed can still carry it (evidence = cousin) and we would be visiting newborns after xmas.

Good luck tomorrow...remember Confidence. You know you have made the right decision for you.

[JellyBean]

Without going into the nitty gritty with statistics, toxic ingredients, pharmaceutical company conflicts of interest etc, I find the best thing to say something like "I have studied vaccines extensively over the years and my husband and I firmly believe, along with many doctors and health professionals out there, that vaccines are not in the best interests for health, and that they cause more harm than good."

If they wish to know more about why you have come to that conclusion, than you can always (kindly) recommend a resource like the book listed in my sig - which contains over 1000 referenced articles. If they turn to the research they will find for themselves that it is the vaccinated that suffer far more from both minor (asthma, eczema, influenza etc) and major (seizures, autism, ADHD, SIDS) adverse health conditions - including those which they are vaccinated against, than the unvaccinated. Their fearful assumption that their child is 'at risk' from those that are unvaccinated is not only unsupported by research, but it is contrary to it. Oh, and I have learnt that people perceive 'informed decision' to be very different things. I believe that simply asking the doctor "hey doc, should I vaccinate my kids?/ what are the side effects of this vaccine?" is not sufficient to make an informed decision.

It's certainly a tough one. I am generally a non-confrontational person, and will avoid the topic altogether if I can in order to 'keep the peace', and yet I have strong views about these things which some would find very confrontational. At the end of the day, I know from previous conversations that my vaccinating friends know very little about vaccines, they have chosen to trust the health authorities and would prefer not to ask the hard questions. That's fine - their choice. I have never broached the topic with them. Although sometimes I wonder if I have an ethical duty to inform them of the issues I know their doctor won't tell them...

On the other hand, I know how much time my non-vaccinated friends have invested in researching vaccines, and their passion for health and natural medicine which I share. My non-vaccinating friends are more than three times likely to breastfeed their children (usually to 12 months and beyond), to feed their children organic, unprocessed food, and use chemical-free, eco friendly personal care products on their children. They have made it their business to know exactly what is in each vaccine and what the potential and accumulative effects of each ingredient are. I'm not saying that this sums up all vaccinating or unvaccinating parents out there -but it does accurately depict my personal experience. So it can be really horrible and disheartening when you get someone giving you dirty looks and judgement-based comments which you know are fear-driven. Lol Sometimes it's probably best to say nothing if you don't feel you can say what you wish to in a calm respectful manner, and just offer to send them some information instead. Some people will no doubt read all the information and still choose to vaccinate, and that's fine - so long as they don't judge or berate you for your decision.

[Cassius2]

we are partial vaxers and it has come up in our MG a couple of times where i was feeling uncomfy as they were spouting their opinions on vaccination. but i held firm and didnt get into semantics etc with them, just told them that we came up with our own vaccination schedule that included delayed vaccination and non vaccination and you know what? once it was out there they just built a bridge and got over it. we are all responsible parents and all take illness and disease seriously, so if the kids were sick they just didnt go to MG.

what i find interesting now that we are onto our second babies in the group is that the topic doesnt even come up! and some of them that have briefly mentioned it have even decided to delay etc! so people are starting to do their own research and make truly informed choices (whether for them that is vaccination or not IYKWIM).

[~Hestia~]

How did you go at your MG? Did it come up at all?

[Cherished]

Jellybean I looked up those links in your sig a few weeks ago actually, I was going to download the books if I could. Your post sounds exactly like I think! I could have written it myself but unlike you I am one to usually speak up and dont' mind educating people especially if I know the facts. But on this topic I am a bit of a shrinking violet I just know that others are jsut as passionate on the other side of the fence, much like what my beliefs are about life and how we got here and where we are going when we die, it doesn't fit with regular religion and it's a topic that I woudl not openly discuss with a religous person as I know it would upset them. So yeah there's such a fine line and it can be hard to talk to people about it even if I feel like they should know what vaccination is doing to their babies it's still not my place kwim

Cas hello and gosh I've been slack in our mummies thread! I remember you saying you were partial vaccinating and it's great you have been able to talk about it in your mums group. I doubt there is anyone else in our group who isn't vaccinating, I'd be surprised anyway so I'm not goin gto be the one who brings it up just to be frowned apon. I do have other friends with kids the same age who haven't vaccinated so if I get evicted from the group than I'll jsut have to hang out with the othe rnon vac'd kids lol

CheezleMonster thanks for checking in on me hon. It was a tense day for me but all ended up well. dh often comes to the group with me (the only dad that does) but he coudln't come so I was on my own. I was an hour late as DS was sleeping so I was wondering what they might be making up about me I think I put waaaaay to much thought into it HA! noone said anything about it and thanks to this thread I was all geared up with what I was going to say and now if/when it comes up I will be confident in what and how I say something.

Thanks again everyone

[Cassius2]

yay! so happy that it went AOK. it's a storm in a teacup really. once you get past the 12 month vacc people just kinda forget about it all and get on with it ITMS.

[JellyBean]

Glad to be of assistance!

Another great article to print off for people that challenge you; 10 Reasons Why Parents Choose Not To Vaccinate

It's brief, but gets to the point.

I have attached this to my kids school enrolment forms so the relevant staff are well informed before they have the chance to judge our family.

X

[Indi]

I just tell people the truth, we don't vaccinate. If people ask why or want to know more I tell them but leave it at that. There have been a few negative reactions but I don't worry about it. We believe that vaccines are unsafe not worth the risk based on research and family loss due to vaccines.

Don't worry about others and don't feel you have to convert others around. Most vaccinate simply because its done or the CHN tells them its time.

The previous comment about turning back around to a 'Why do you vaccinate?' is a good one.

[RockinSAHD]

I just tell people the truth, we don't vaccinate. If people ask why or want to know more I tell them but leave it at that. There have been a few negative reactions but I don't worry about it. We believe that vaccines are unsafe not worth the risk based on research and family loss due to vaccines.

As a pretty staunch pro-vaxer who's kids play with non-vaxed kids I think that it's enough to tell people that you've done a lot of research and you feel that your kids are safer without them, and that your careful not to socialise your kids when they are sick! (that's important)

Your choices about how to keep your kids safe are your responsibility and the opinion of no-one else as long as you assure them your careful with the health of others too.


The AVN website or the 10 reasons above are both dangerously innaccurate and sensationalist, Try this website for a start (no, its not propaganda but it does show both sides of an argument):

Are Autism and Vaccines Linked?

[BellyBelly]

This thread was started to seek ideas on what to say, this thread will be moderated if its going to be turned into yet another pro vs anti vax thread. Thankyou.

[Inertia]

I don't think my answer will help you much, lol
I only mention it to Drs/Nurses who are treating my child anyway as it is only actually important to them.

For everyone else it is basically a case of it was the decision I made and I keep her away from people who are sick so she can't catch anything from them.

Ugh on the comments though. Sheesh. The propaganda being spread is unbelievably damaging. I can imagine how uncomfortable you must have been feeling. Just remind them that you have to be more careful of whooping cough than they do. Unvaccinated babies don't spread it. They get the sickest from it. You have to be more careful than they do because you are not counting on the vaccination. Might open their eyes just that little bit.