Challenging behaviour. What to do?

[~ Mylitta ~]

My son is two years and nine months old and he;s going through a stage of screaming, throwing and lashing out when frustrated. When he gets frustrated or angry he does these loud short bursts of yelling/screaming ("arrrhhhh" "arrhhhh") and sometimes goes up in pitch to a squeal. Then he'll look for something to throw. If his little sister is around he'll even vent on her and push her or try to kick her. DH and I hate all these responses to frustration/anger and have tried a number of techniques to try to get them in check, but nothing seems to be helping.

I've tried talking him through things. So getting down on his level and telling him I understand why he feels angry/frustrated and explaining to him why we don't throw things or push people etc... It seems to have absolutely no effect on him. He can even be holding something that I know he wants to throw and I can hold his arm and explain to him why he should choose not to throw it and ask him not to throw it, and as soon as I let go of his arm he'll still throw it.

We've also tried time-out. We would put him in his bedroom. Sometimes he would cry initially, but he would settle quickly and then we would let him out. Often we would go in there and he'll be sitting on the chair reading a book as happy a Larry. Didn't seem like much of a punishment, so we started putting him in the little corridor because there's nothing to do in there. He would just sit there or lay on the ground until we let him out, but he seems quite content there too. Sometimes he would even start singing...

I've tried confiscating the toy that he throws. He doesn't care.

One time when he kicked his sister (after repeatedly trying to push her and throwing toys and screaming) I lost it and smacked his leg as I pushed him away from her. I felt terrible afterwards! One thing I really don't want to do is resort to violence to teach a lesson. How can I teach him it's not ok to hit or kick is sister if I resort to hitting him?! My reaction that day had me in tears.

The time-out punishment obviously stops the situation in the moment, but it seems to be having no long-term deterrent effect and we need to work out some way to curb this behaviour. I don't expect to stop it, but it's driving us crazy and we need for it to at least calm down a little bit.

Any other ideas?

[Amaunet]

I have no advice, just joining you as DS1 is behaving in a very similar way and we are at our wits end!

[feeb]

Have tryed same things with no results.

DS2 is terrible he hits, kicks, bites, pulls hair, pushes DS1 to get what he wants or if he doesnt get what he wants and wants to take it out on someone. He will also hit us. Had no issues at CC until other day when I was told he hit a carer.

If we put him in cot or corner he screams and screams and throws self around until i feel bad as he has thrown self back and hit head so then i pick him up, I often will otherwtimes end up yelling at him as he gets so hysterical that I get frustartaed.

[Arimeh]

I dont have the answers, ive got that x3 lol

However we have introduced the "gentle hands house" and that we only use gentle hands with each other and if you don't then you have to go to your room until you are ready to be part of our gentle hands house.

Probably sounds kind of sucky, but it has been working.

I'm pretty tough if they start fighting over a toy though - if they can't share - they lose it and nobody gets to play with it.

[onthefly]

I think it might help to consider any underlying factors here. Outbursts like this are often an expression of some unmet need. And little kids are often not too eloquent about letting you know when they need stuff.
You say he's frustrated about stuff - so maybe think about what you can do to help him with that before he loses his temper? (For my son - boredom and lack of attention from me are common ones.) Finding other 'physical outlets' for the anger can also help some kids.

I think this sort of thing is pretty normal - it manifests in different ways, but kids get really overwrought when emotion runs high. Throw in hunger and/or tiredness and you have a screaming hissy fit in no time.

So that's the other thing I'd suggest - think about triggers. Like hunger, tiredness. Some kids react badly to certain things in foods.... stuff like that. You might notice a pattern somewhere - he eats x and it's 10x worse...

And finally, be kind to yourself. You're human, you get overrun by emotions too. We don't always do the right thing, but we can still teach our kids right by showing them how to 'make up' afterwards.

[kelebek]

Could he be overwhelmed (and a little overstimulated) which is why he settles in time out?
I don't really have any experience but I would think that at this age it is still really hard for them to process everything and they don't develop impulse control until about 4 so even if he wanted to not throw it, he literally can't help himself.

I think I would persist with timeout and just hope over time that it will get less and less and be a phase

[MummyNaomi]

Wise words from Mad B and I agree with kelebek, I'd persist with the time outs as it is actually putting a stop to that occurrence of behaviour.

Interestingly we have identified that apple juice turns Bailey into a demon, literally, my sweet natured boy becomes a tantruming devils child that is almost recognisable. He becomes overwrought and cannot be reasoned with. Obviously Apple Juice is no longer welcome in our house.

My experience is that frustration becomes less as language skills develop, as often behaviours like this are as a result of frustration at not being able to articulate what they want. Perhaps jot down whats happened prior to the outburst to see if a pattern becomes evident.

Babe you are 7 months pregnant with a 1 and 2yo - the kids are gonna irritate each other sometimes and you are gonna get frustrated, so be reasonable to yourself also. DS may just be going through one of those challenging developmental leaps (this is when Bailey is often at his most challenging) and hopefully this too will pass. The best advice is to try to remain calm and in control (where possible hehehehehe, not always easy hey?) and be consistent with the message you give him

xx

[Ambersky]

Completly understand where you are at been through it with DD1, still do now and again, and DD2 is just coming in to it.
We tend to do 'time in' rather than out, so i will sit her on my lap and talk gently about whats happening. Frustration is a horrible thing for adults and we have tools and verbal ability to understand and process it, its not thier fault that the dont have that yet so i don't want to 'punish' for it. Hitting and throwing are not ok but they are one of the few outlets they have at that age, i sometime encorage the Rarrrrring and ask if she can do it louder or i growl back and we tend to end up in giggles at each other.
Hunger and previous days bad food choices absolutly make it worse for us.

[~ Mylitta ~]

Thank you all for your responses. While I certainly don't wish this behaviour on others, it's definitely a comfort knowing it's a somewhat normal stage and we're not the only ones facing the challenge.

I think it might help to consider any underlying factors here. Outbursts like this are often an expression of some unmet need. And little kids are often not too eloquent about letting you know when they need stuff.
You say he's frustrated about stuff - so maybe think about what you can do to help him with that before he loses his temper? (For my son - boredom and lack of attention from me are common ones.) Finding other 'physical outlets' for the anger can also help some kids.

More often than not we know exactly what the reason is for an outburst. It can be a simple as a toy not doing quite what he wants it to do, or us telling him he can't have something (like today he wanted a second tub of yoghurt and I told him he could have one after lunch, which was not right now so not good enough for him). After eating four slices of toast, a bowl of cereal and a tub of yoghurt I knew he wasn't still hungry, lol. Talking to him about it didn't avoid the tanty unfortunately.
I've tried introducing an alternative to the current frustrated behaviour. For example, I've tried to convince him to stamp his feet instead, and I even got a bottle that is filled with coloured rice and told him when he's angry he can shake the bottle really hard to make himself feel better and more calm. Hmm, maybe I should continue with that in conjunction with the time outs as I sort of gave up quickly with giving him alternatives.

And I guess many of you are right when you talk about them being worse when they haven't had enough stimulation. I'm sure I must be guilty of that at the moment. With probably only four weeks to go until the baby arrives I've been much less active with him, and now that DD is running around she takes more time and energy as well. Add to that our playgroup fizzled out months ago and we haven't found another one, and even our Mother's Group has missed a few sessions, so we've been rather housebound lately. I've just enrolled him in a Montessori toddler program that he should be able to start in the next three weeks. It's two hours once a week and it'll be the first time he's been away from me (besides when I had DD and the 3-4 times my parents have babysat for a couple of hours) so it'll be interesting to see how he goes. I hope he loves it. I think he'll be fine and I'll be the one in the car a blubbering mess because of MY separation anxiety, lol!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

One thing that has worked with my son is that, unless he is overwhelmed, he doesn't get a time out. He can't just walk away from his carnage. He has to deal with it. With help, of course. So apologising and giving a cuddle. Including to the toy he "hurt" by throwing it. And I won't play if he hurts me either.

We do have time outs and time ins, as appropriate. DH is fond of using time out as a way of just getting DS out the way for an hour, but I tend to sit him down and tell him when he's calm and ready to apologise/play nicely then he can tell me and we'll go again. Sometimes he's happy to just sit on a chair and make up a story: he is actually happy to sit on time out, not want to come off the seat and will tell me all about his story when he's calm again.

[Butterfly Dawn]

There really isnt anything we have found that stop them from doing these things. We give time out, or I come up with silly punishments like stand with your nose on the door- 1 hand on your head and 1 on your knee, then make them go give a kiss, cuddle and say sorry to the other child.
Once noise level gets too high in our house I break the kids up and give them separate tasks to do in separate places- even you draw me a flower over here and you work out how many fingers you have over here
I feel for you with 2 young 1s and baby due soon. persistence is key, just cause it doesnt work today doesnt mean it wont work tomorrow, and they will learn, sometime

[Arcadia]

I seriously think it's also the age. Dd went from the most gentle child to really frustrated at that age. Now at a bit over three she is HEAPS better. She can talk more and understands that hitting etc is not appropriate.

I have had to also really check my own anger and aggression, if I get angry, the next outburst is more aggressive again. So if I try and be zen about it, it seems to blow over much faster.

Poor ds cops it sometimes, but the other thing I am trying is to just pick him up and walk away, rather than giving all the attention to the aggressive child, give it to the hurt child, and then come back and talk to the older child. It has helped me not react too suddenly too.

Things that work for us:
Can't share toys, then no one plays
Hitting results in immediate removal of baby and leave room and then aft a while a firm 'gentle hands only, show me gentle hands'
Outrageous tantrum ing we do loads of validation, and if all else fails, place child outside for fresh air. I tell dd she can come back inside when she feels calm
A calm jar! It was an idea from someone on bb, and from a blog herewearetogether. Basically place water, food coloring and glitter in a jar and get the child to shake it when angry and watch the hitter swirl to calm down. We made lots I different colours and dd loves them.

Good luck. It's certainly been the hardest stage for us. I heard someone say they get a huge surge of hormones just before three, and that certainly makes sense for us, because it was a really dramatic change.

[onthefly]

A calm jar! I like that idea.
I'm more inclined to do time in - and give myself time out when i lose it (actually, I wish I could have lots of time out!) But there are times when I just can't handle it and I need to put DS somewhere else for a moment.

I reckon even if they don't seem up to it yet, stick with the explanations and talking things through - give him words to work with for when he can be more eloquent with you. It does get through to them. They are listening. They just lack the ability to do it just yet. Whatever you do say or do, they will mirror it back to you in time. I've been caught out by my son's responses to me sooooo many times. I think - where did you learn that? that's a terrible thing to say.... oh. crap. Just gotta keep plugging away.

[Miss E]

those melt downs are so hard to handle. I think Mad B has hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways.

What I find works best with my DS is to help him identify the emotion and help him work through it and process it. If possible I try to hold/cuddle him and then reaffirm the emotion. You're very frustrated because the toy wouldn't xyz or you're angry because mummy.... I can understand why that would make you so frustrated/angry. It's ok to get frustrated/angry. Mummy and Daddy get frustrated too. etc etc. Quite often after a bit of back patting and this sort of talk he will then start talking about what happened. I'm hoping that this process is helping him to learn to express his emotions through words rather than meltdowns - at least that's the theory.

Of course there are times where he won't let me hold/cuddle him. When that happens I try to give him some space, but keep the offer of a cuddle there. Eventually he wants the cuddle and that is when we start the conversation.

HTH

[janzward]

I've tried confiscating the toy that he throws. He doesn't care.

One time when he kicked his sister (after repeatedly trying to push her and throwing toys and screaming) I lost it and smacked his leg as I pushed him away from her. I felt terrible afterwards! One thing I really don't want to do is resort to violence to teach a lesson. How can I teach him it's not ok to hit or kick is sister if I resort to hitting him?! My reaction that day had me in tears.

The time-out punishment obviously stops the situation in the moment, but it seems to be having no long-term deterrent effect and we need to work out some way to curb this behaviour. I don't expect to stop it, but it's driving us crazy and we need for it to at least calm down a little bit.

[/QUOTE]

Confiscating toys does help for the moment. I had the same problem 2 years back. I tried everything but really nothing worked. One thing that stopped him though it may be hard for you to do. I just ignored him whenever he throws tantrums. For some reason when I ignore he eventually stops.

I know that it works differently for children but I do know how you feel..

[Butterfly Dawn]

I like the jar idea

[~ Mylitta ~]

Lol, I tried the "calm jar" today. I took him to his room and told him if he's feeling angry he can shake the jar (plastic bottle with coloured rice in it) really hard until he was feeling calmer. As I was closing the door he was launching it towards the door. Then I heard it launched around the room at least 4 more times. I guess he confused "shake" with "throw" :/

We shall persist!

[Rowellen]

About the only thing that helps with my DS is to stop and say "do you want a cuddle?". Usually he says yes & "DS sad". After a while he'll calm down & forget whatever he was having a tanty about. It is also easier to talk once he's calm rather than when he's crying as he just doesn't hear anything when he's in that place. It can be hard when DD is also wanting/needing me or I'm in the middle of cooking dinner but I try to do this when I can. I think for him, it is a cry for attention. We have been doing this for a few months now & sometimes he asks for a cuddle without prompting. I don't think there is a simple long-term deterrent. Persistence & consistency is the key. Even then, there are still daily meltdowns over the littlest thing! It helps to have a process to work through in that situation though.