What is your 3.5 - 4 yo like?

[Arimeh]

I'm wondering if other mums could tell me about what their 3.5 - 4yo is like.

I'm not sure if there is something "different" about DD1, or if this is what 3.5 yo's are like, because DS was never like this - so is it a girl thing too?

We have made an appointment for a paediatric behavioural specialist to assess her on the 27th, but since its costing us $300, we just want to make sure what we think is different, is just different to DS but still in the realms of normal - ITMS.

Ok, so she will be 4 in August. A lot of her behaviour is like her sister (who is approaching 2.5) and I'm not sure if its DD2 that is acting older than she should be, or if DD1 is going to her level (and staying there).

She wails. A lot. If she can't get something to work, or if she can't get out of something, she wails. She won't tell us what is the matter in words, she just wails. Or just says mummy. She doesn't put the problem into a sentence, and this frustrates us because she has a great vocabulary and has no issues talking - except in times of stress/frustration/being upset.

She is quite abusive. She will scratch, or pull hair or push her siblings, or us. Usually she lays on top of DD3 (nearly a year) and will not get off her, even when repeatedly asked to do so, so we usually end up yelling at her (mainly because she probably can't hear us over her sister screaming) as we are walking towards her to get her off. This happens multiple times a day. MULTIPLE. Add this to DD2 also doing it to DD3, and I'm about to lose my mind.

She has no patience. At all. And gets upset at the drop of a hat. She's very highly strung. She changes her mind - constantly. Jumps between one choice to another, and back again, then back again, all in the space of 30 seconds. VERY frustrating.

She is hungry all the time during the day. ALL. THE. TIME. At least every 10 minutes she will come up and ask me for food, even if she has just had breakfast/morning tea/lunch. But then at dinner time, she will play with her dinner and not eat a bite, no matter what it is, unless we physically feed her. Just before she came up begging for yoghurt and then ended up painting her face with it instead of eating it, which I can't stand because its just a waste of food (and I know its one of my issues that I have to get over, but at the moment I can't cos we have hardly any money for food and I want her to eat what she is given not waste it )

If someone is standing in front of her and she can't see the tv, she wails. Instead of going around them (or pushing them out of the way like DS has always done!) she just wails that she "can't see it".

She is nasty. She closes the door on DD2 all the time to their bedroom that they share or steals toys off her and runs away. DD2 then throws a tantrum and screams and runs after her and they run around the loungeroom multiple times before I can get to her and put a stop to it.

She will not do as she is told. Unless made to. She poos in her undies multiple times a day, even though she is toilet trained for wees and has been for a while, and has done some poos on the potty so I know its not a fear thing - in her words why she doesn't go to the potty when she has to poo - its because "I don't want to".

So thats just some of the things that she does during the day. I'm not sure if my expectations of her are too high (since DS never did this) or if this is all relatively normal behaviour and I was spoilt with DS at that age (definitely not now that he is 5 and talks back a lot to us and has his own issues!)

She is driving me absolutely batty at the moment, she seems to be getting in trouble all the time. Some of these issues have been going on for at least a year, but she's not getting better, its getting worse. Now even my friends are noticing about her wailing issue, so its not just all in my head.....

Sorry this was so long.. bit of a vent too I suppose!

[LuluHB]

As you know my DD2 has anxiety issues so that contributes to some of her behaviour. She will be 4 in May.

My two are chalk and cheese despite only 12 months difference. DD1 is calm, sweet natured and very easy going. DD2 is volatile, impatient, emotional, aggressive at times (although not to the extent of your DD). when she is very upset she shuts down verbal communication and just gets teary and/or screams. Opposite of your LO, my DD barely eats anything and is vv definite about what she will and won't eat - anything you really push her to eat, or even try, is usually vomitted up.

I strugglesome days to understand what is out of her control and what is just plain bad behaviour, but have worked out that a lot of it is just her character. Hopefully as she grows older she will learn to control her emotions better and have more appropriate responses.

Good luck with your appt. i hope the dr can shed some light.

[skybie]

She sounds alot like DD1 at her age, i can tell you it does get better (in ways, but then other things drive you nuts)
could have alot to do with having younger siblings to i think.
with DD1 i thought 2 was a bad year, then we hit 3 and that was worse, then 4 came along and OMG i was ready to adopt her out!! but at 5 she's probably as annoying and naughty as she was when she was 3.
Hope the doc can put your mind at ease hun xxx

[Tegam]

My DD2 is so different from DD1 its insane. She is now 5.5. She is a Leo too. I found 3-4 just the worse with her. Alot of what you said was normal to me, except the poo issue but that just sounds like a defiant thing

DS is the same age as your DD and he is the same and different (sorry that means nothing does it)

What im getting at is what you have said makes me think she is totally normal and no way would i be spending $300 on anything. ALSO i find that if you do spend $300 someone will want to give you a lable to make you feel better for spending the money. You know like when a Dr gives you are script after you go to them for one of your kids, its more for the parent than the sick kid IYGWIM

I dont know, only you do, sorry im not really any help........

can i just say.....bloody leos (and i have two of them)

[Tegam]

oh and can i add the change in both my DD at 4 was AMAZING even DD that was really good got better

four is GREAT...

Apparently its FIVE for boys...ill let you know

[skybie]

lol DD1 is a Leo too, i wonder if theres a connection?!

[Artechim]

I would love to give you some words of wisdom, but I am probably the last person to be in a position to give behaviour advice at the moment! Good luck xx

[Arimeh]

I would love to give you some words of wisdom, but I am probably the last person to be in a position to give behaviour advice at the moment! Good luck xx

I'm sure you can offer something

Well it's somewhat reassuring to see it seems normal -- and also not reassuring that this is normal!!! Argh.

Any advice in how to survive without ripping all my hair out? And maybe it is something about leo's!!!!

[Nai]

Ok, so she will be 4 in August. A lot of her behaviour is like her sister (who is approaching 2.5) and I'm not sure if its DD2 that is acting older than she should be, or if DD1 is going to her level (ad staying there).

She wails. A lot. If she can't get something to work, or if she can't get out of something, she wails. She won't tell us what is the matter in words, she just wails. Or just says mummy. She doesn't put the problem into a sentence, and this frustrates us because she has a great vocabulary and has no issues talking - except in times of stress/frustration/being upset.

She is quite abusive. She will scratch, or pull hair or push her siblings, or us. Usually she lays on top of DD3 (nearly a year) and will not get off her, even when repeatedly asked to do so, so we usually end up yelling at her (mainly because she probably can't hear us over her sister screaming) as we are walking towards her to get her off. This happens multiple times a day. MULTIPLE. Add this to DD2 also doing it to DD3, and I'm about to lose my mind.

She has no patience. At all. And gets upset at the drop of a hat. She's very highly strung. She changes her mind - constantly. Jumps between one choice to another, and back again, then back again, all in the space of 30 seconds. VERY frustrating.

She is hungry all the time during the day. ALL. THE. TIME. At least every 10 minutes she will come up and ask me for food, even if she has just had breakfast/morning tea/lunch. But then at dinner time, she will play with her dinner and not eat a bite, no matter what it is, unless we physically feed her. Just before she came up begging for yoghurt and then ended up painting her face with it instead of eating it, which I can't stand because its just a waste of food (and I know its one of my issues that I have to get over, but at the moment I can't cos we have hardly any money for food and I want her to eat what she is given not waste it )

If someone is standing in front of her and she can't see the tv, she wails. Instead of going around them (or pushing them out of the way like DS has always done!) she just wails that she "can't see it".

She is nasty. She closes the door on DD2 all the time to their bedroom that they share or steals toys off her and runs away. DD2 then throws a tantrum and screams and runs after her and they run around the loungeroom multiple times before I can get to her and put a stop to it.

She will not do as she is told. Unless made to. She poos in her undies multiple times a day, even though she is toilet trained for wees and has been for a while, and has done some poos on the potty so I know its not a fear thing - in her words why she doesn't go to the potty when she has to poo - its because "I don't want to".

So thats just some of the things that she does during the day. I'm not sure if my expectations of her are too high (since DS never did this) or if this is all relatively normal behaviour and I was spoilt with DS at that age (definitely not now that he is 5 and talks back a lot to us and has his own issues!)

She is driving me absolutely batty at the moment, she seems to be getting in trouble all the time. Some of these issues have been going on for at least a year, but she's not getting better, its getting worse. Now even my friends are noticing about her wailing issue, so its not just all in my head.....

Sorry this was so long.. bit of a vent too I suppose!

Well my DD2 is younger at 3y1m but she is very different to DD1 who is much calmer and gentler all round. DD2 doesn't have a younger sibling but I notice she imitates DD1 constantly as she is the one she spends the most time with. So your DDs could be imitating each other.

DD2 will also wail and not say what is wrong when she is upset. I think this is fairly normal - even DD1 can do this at times and she is 6! I have to clam them down and then find out what happened. They fight a lot and DD2 yells at DD1 and loses the plot at times.

DD2 will lash out at DD1 physically even when she knows it is wrong. She also has no patience - I ask if she wants x she says no, I ask her what she wants, she says "I want x" - I think it is a control thing constantly changing their minds, and also quite a normal phase. DD2 is also hungry all the time! But she spent being2 hardly eating anything so I think she is making up for it! She is a tall, athletic kid and she is very active so it makes sense.

She doesn't do the poo thing but it sounds like a defiance thing. What happens if you ignore it?

I don't know if that helps at all!!

[MrsFabuloso]

She sounds to me like both my DD(who is 5 in a month) and DS1 (who is 3y 7mths and funnily enough a leo too!). DD will wail like you've described, and so will DS1 though for different reasons. DD will cry if she can't see things or people are in her way. DS1 will wail when he can't do stuff and then won't tell me what's wrong. They could both talk underwater with a mouth full of marbles, so it's not a language issue for us either.

The only thing you have said (or maybe alluded to) which I might be concerned about would be her anxiety about things. The rest of it sounds like she is just being a challenging 4yo. DS1 is really, I mean REALLY pushing my buttons with his behaviour lately (hitting, ignoring instrucions/rules, doing what he know's he shouldn't...) and DD has attitude plus (talking back, being rude, being entitled, threats to DS1 and her friends, being a bully to younger kids), so for me between them, I am going insane.

[black_rose]

Dd1 was very similar 12 months ago, she was 3.5 yo and we were almost at the stage of looking to see if she was on the spectrum. She would scream, sit on the floor and spin and not listen and would refuse to go on the Once in front of the mchn.

What we eventually discovered that citric acid in its artificial form (301) was triggering part of the behaviour it's in everything ribena, yoghurt some cheeses, biscuits and juice etc. removing that from her diet made a big difference. Then she needed glasses and again her behavior improved. With the screaming and not talking we walked away if she was safe and asked her to use her words when she was ready to talk. In regards to the toileting we have had to go on osmolax as she was holding on and stretched her bowel it's taken 4 months and there has been a big improvement until we went away last weekend.

She is now a polite and helpful 4.5yo, so different to the screaming yelling child from last year.

I would hold off the assessment for a little while and see if she improves over time.

[Arimeh]

She doesn't do the poo thing but it sounds like a defiance thing. What happens if you ignore it?

This is our second attempt at toilet training, I gave up after 3 months of her continually pooing in her undies last year. Then a few months later (late december) I started again, and she is fine with her wees, just this friggin poo. I made a chart the other week, and got stickers and she got two stickers and a chocolate egg when she did a poo, then after 5 poos she got a present. So over the course of a week she did her 5 poos, with just a few accidents, so we took her shopping and she selected a present. Now, she doesn't care about getting more presents or stickers, she just can't be bothered I think. Its easier for her to poo in her undies. We ignored it for the first few months, but now its beyond the joke because we know she CAN do it, she's just.. well.. lazy!! Like just before, I asked her if she had done a poo and she said no, just a fart, then squatted and said she was doing a poo. So I put her on the potty - and she said she didn't want to go, and didn't need to do a poo. So I've taken her undies off now, because from past experience, in 10 minutes, she will have done a poo in them. So we will see what happens when she doesn't have the security of the undies.

so for me between them, I am going insane.

Can I drive you to the nuthouse - its good to car pool you know.

What we eventually discovered that citric acid in its artificial form (301) was triggering part of the behaviour it's in everything ribena, yoghurt some cheeses, biscuits and juice etc. removing that from her diet made a big difference. Then she needed glasses and again her behavior improved. With the screaming and not talking we walked away if she was safe and asked her to use her words when she was ready to talk. In regards to the toileting we have had to go on osmolax as she was holding on and stretched her bowel it's taken 4 months and there has been a big improvement until we went away last weekend.

She is now a polite and helpful 4.5yo, so different to the screaming yelling child from last year.

I would hold off the assessment for a little while and see if she improves over time.

Thats interesting, how did you find out that it was that particular thing setting her off? I'll talk to DH, see if he wants to call off the appointment.

[fionas]

Look, I don't know TBH.

DD1 was especially tantrumy and difficult between 2.5 and 3.5 (but for a lot of time she was housebound as I couldn't walk with SPD). She was having major meltdowns about every hour. But apart from that, I can't remember anything that you describe.

She's 4.5 so a bit older than your DD now but MOST of the bad behaviour has gone. Sure she still has her tanties but it's usually over something I understand would make a child tanty not something really silly.

It sounds like this is causing you and your family some angst and I think on that basis alone, it's worth checking out. It might be completely normal and from what others have said, it could well be. But if I had questions in my mind and it was happening a lot every day and showed no signs of abating, for the sake of $300 I'd check, even just for peace of mind. If there is something wrong, the earlier you get on to it the better. You could do nothing, post again when she's 4.5 if there's been no progress and kick yourself you hadn't done something earlier.

[black_rose]

She had ribena, and went crazy within minutes. So it was just a matter of looking at what she was eating, these days we have lot of fruit and vegies, homemade cookies. She can have tiny amounts every now and then but went crazy after the last party she went to.

She still eats a heap of food and won't always eat dinner but we have stopped battling her over dinner it was upsetting all of us.

[Arimeh]

They all go nuts after maccas, so thats banned from our house, haven't noticed any substantial difference in behaviour with anything else though. might have to pay more attention.

Well she did a poo in the potty since her undies were off. Don't want to have to resort to that though, making her go without undies just because its the only way she will poo in the potty. Seems a bit mean doesn't it?

[Nai]

Not really - that would be my solution. No undies until she can poo in the toilet for 5 days (but I'm mean)

[Arcadia]

I would also go no undies at home until she can poo in the potty...unless its freezing?

Dd is just over three so I'm not sure I can comment, but I have found the more challenging her behaviour, the closer I need to hold her ie tighten the leash and increase the cuddles.

We have set food times now because the all day eating drives me insane. It sucks for a while but my dd would eat from boredom, so now I restrict it heaps! (sure we have snacks between meals but we all have it together, not just randomly playing while eating crackers for eg)

When dd is aggressive to ds, I just ignore her and pick up hurt child and lavish attention on hurt child and leave dd to herself. It's hard to remember but talking to aggressive child could be rewarding her with the attention- she knows it's wrong so she just needs to work on impulse control.

She is still very young and has two young siblings, so she might feel she can only get attention by acting up. Does she sleep in her own bed? Do you put her to bed?

My dd has been better since we started cosleeping full time again.. But I know that's not an option for everyone.

[MrsFabuloso]

If not putting undies on her makes her poo in the potty, I wouldn't put undies on her at home. I don't think it's cruel (though for us considering it's a fight to get undies onto my kids, I guess it's a little different, lol!)

Also wanted to say. Has anyone else ever commented on her behaviour? Maybe a teacher from preschool or someone else close to you?
BUT! If you feel that something might not be right, trust you instincts. You're her mother. You're with her 24/7. You know her like no other.