Help me convince dh this is normal....

[Rouge]

I don't think it's normal. But when I listened to a segment on hack and there plenty of women who thought they needed to do it so they didn't have ugly vaginas. And plenty of young men who found it unattractive in their partners. They spoke to a cosmetic surgeon in Australia who said it was becoming a common request for labia minimising surgery. But mostly among women aged in the early to mid 20's.

[Astrid]

And is it really necessary to open it all up for the camera!?

Yes. Just the fact there is this thread is proof enough that there needs to be places where people can see what is normal. The nature of female genitalia is that it is hidden, hence hard for us to see in day to day life what normal looks like.

Logically, why would anyone think that genitals need to all look the same? Our faces don't. Big noses, small noses, pointy, bulbous etc. So why is it so surprising that labia, clitorises etc would be different?

[sushee]

I don't think it's normal. But when I listened to a segment on hack and there plenty of women who thought they needed to do it so they didn't have ugly vaginas. And plenty of young men who found it unattractive in their partners. They spoke to a cosmetic surgeon in Australia who said it was becoming a common request for labia minimising surgery. But mostly among women aged in the early to mid 20's.

See that is at the heart of what disturbs me. If a woman is self-conscious about her labia (or nose, or elbow) and decides on plastic surgery for her own reasons, it's one thing, but for them to do it because their partner has made it known that he doesn't find it attractive? I'd be saying suck it up, son (no pun intended) or I'd be changing partners.

[nickle730]

I have a preference for a sexual partner who is circumcised. Is that any better or worse than men who prefer large or small labia? To be clear, I would never ask an uncircumcised man to go and have his foreskin removed because I prefer it, but I do think a flaccid uncircumcised penis is very unattractive.

[Rowellen]

I think that is what the point is nickle. Preferences are fine. Asking or insisting your partner change their body to suit your preference is not fine.

[Rouge]

I think you've answered your own question. You wouldn't force your adult partner to circumcise.

Of course it's fine to say you like one thing over another. I'm sure most women would like it if their partner looked like *insert sexy celeb here* but they aren't suggesting their men alter themselves cosmetically. And they aren't insinuating anything other than x is abnormal. That is my issue with this. The insinuation that these requests are ok because they are somehow sideshow freaks.

[Eenee]

In some cultures (I watched a documentary once) they actually stretch it to become bigger/longer and they start from young age and stretch each others!

[LimeSlice]

Where did this notion come from that sex organs are supposed to be attractive? LOL I think if we went on that criterion, then I think most of us would be headed to the surgeon to have them beautified. The penis and vagina are not necessarily supposed to be attractive to look at - they aren't supposed to be all smooth and supple and uniform and symetrical. In fact, I would challenge someone to name another body part that is always all those things.

The acceptance that we are all different - that all parts of us are different, even to other parts of ourselves - is such a vital component of growing into a healthy human being.

The lack of complete sexual education in many schools is clearly an issue - children and adolescents should be exposed to more images of a healthy human body than what the mainstream media and the clandestine internet provide.

[Amity]

Sometimes the most awesome penises (Penii?) have lovely kinks and bumps in them.... I wouldn't suggest they be operated on!

Anyway, back to brazilians. I think if girls are doing it for themselves (lol pun) then it's fine.

[Phteven]

They spoke to a cosmetic surgeon in Australia who said it was becoming a common request for labia minimising surgery. But mostly among women aged in the early to mid 20's.

You reminded me of an article I read not so long ago in which they spoke to wax ladies and cosmetic surgeons who all said that it was a generational thing. That women in their early 20's are far more likely to be self-conscious and want surgery and a full wax.
It makes me sad that the beauty myth has extended under our underwear.

[PumpkinZulu]

The doco was called The Perfect Vagina. If you google it you can watch it for free online. It covers a lot of what is being discussed here.

[black_rose]

I was watching embarrassing bodies a few months ago and the dr (one of the females) suggested a teenager had the surgery to minimize her labia even though there was nothing wrong with her!

[Sopdet]

A guy I know did a great book called Heart of the Flower, his name is Andrew Barnes and it has 50 Australian yonis photographed for it. He is an amazing man, travelling the world doing some incredible work on female sexuality, body acceptance. I've done a couple of his workshops, I was also going to do his sex therapist counselling course but he is currently living in eastern europe, so it is on the list of things to do towards the end of my degree.

If anybody is watching Spartacus, I think the women are wearing merkins, just by the positioning and structure of the "bush".

[sushee]

A colleague at work recently told me about how she went into a plastic surgery consultation for her chin (she think she has a weak chin) and the dr started having a go about all the things wrong with her that she might want to change. But plastic surgeons do that, that's their livelihood, they take 'normal' and think it needs to be fixed. Not saying it's right, but put anyone in front of a plastic surgeon and they're going to go to town. Not the most self-affirming thing to do with your time.

And the whole thing with plastic surgery is that it preys on your insecurities and provides you (at a cost) a quick fix to it. Which is fine if you're doing it for the right reason, which in my view is about personal choice (i.e. 'I want this' and not 'society/my man/my friends expect this') but let's face it, I'm sure that's not the case for 80% of those undergoing ANY sort of plastic surgery procedure, me probably included.

[Floweryfields]

Is that photo of Demi real?
at what some of you would be thinking if you saw mine untamed! Demi's is nothing! LOL Then again, I have always had very dark, very coarse hair, and it isn't a nice and neat little triangle!

I remember some years ago when I was about 14, there was a magazine having a go at Alanis Morrissette because they snapped a pic of her getting out of a pool, and she hadn't done her bikini line. That stayed with me, and is prime example I think of how the media can influence young women - I honestly don't think porn is the biggest contributor to this totally unrealistic body image. The media itself is far more affecting I think.

The early series of Big Brother had me thinking I was just about the only woman in Australia who was still hairy - they talked so much about brazillians, etc on that show. It was certainly more influental on my thinking than porn.

[Arcadia]

And yet despite those early messages about waxing I still turned to my mother as a guide and she has never waxed so that's the direction I took for a long time, until my mid twenties and I was doing lots of swimming.

[Nai]

Arcadia, it's funny you said that as DD2 this morning proudly announced "when I grow into a woman like you mummy, I'll get big boobs and hair on my vagina too"

[Snacks]

It was Cameron Diaz on Graham Norton. I remember thinking the same thing.

ETA: That was a bit random, sorry! This is in response to the post about the celeb talking about her friend with the " '80's bush".