Babies born April 2008 #4

Grubi,
That is not good to hear. I hope greer is better in no time. I know what you mean, I hate going to the emergency rooms, there are tonnes of people maily from sport injury. But you never know what germs they are carrying which our babies might get. Me personal, I think hosipitals should employ a policy where babies under 12m are first in ASAP.

SNAP:Ok so update, Wyatt he now goes to bed by him self, and half away. (drunk boobie face awake) He cry's for Mummy to come and get him, but this mummy is saying NO. There is nothing wrong with him, so your fine. And have done this since Saturday, and now he is sleeping for 2hrs or more during day today.

Kat: For the last 2 nights in a row we have had the same thing as you. Wyatt went for 7hr before waking up for his boobie. I still woke up at 12 just to check make sure he was ok.
*Granted I could have killed him a few days ago, as he was always falling asleep in my arms, and would wake up when he realise he wasn't in them anymore. So have employed above tactic, which seems to be working thus far.


Cheers
Sarah

Sarah, isn't he a bit little to be crying it out? Our littlies really need us for a while longer to hold them to sleep. It is a lot to expect a baby to soothe themself to sleep, they have more needs than just physical ones, but you can do the half awake thing so they don't "fall asleep in bed and wake in the bathtub" as Dr Sears says, it just takes a little longer and isn't as jarring on them. Studies have shown CIO causes them to just "give up" and lose hope and trust, that isn't the same as having a naturally sleepy baby. I'd hate for you to learn that when it's too late, like I did with DD. I think BB has some articles and alternatives, and Elizabeth Pantley has a book called the No Cry Sleep Solution which is working wonders on sleep associations. No judgment, I'm the last one to be able to judge, just said with love from someone who had to heal her child from controlled crying. :)

So I have worked up to Ci doing a two hour nap per day in the cot. I consider that success. So our routine now is sling through the morning nap, cot for the late morning nap, cot for the early arvo nap, and for this quickie nap around dinner time I sling him again to make sure he has had enough time in-arms. I feel a bit weird, truth be told, with not holding him as much, and have found myself staying on the hammock with him through some naps and reading my book.

I am reading this book: The Vital Touch: How Intimate Contact With Your Baby Leads To Happier, Healthier Development which is an AMAZING book. I wish I knew it existed months ago. It explains so much about babies that almost no other book touches on. Their inbuilt need for touch, and experiment results on when they don't get it (such as our culture), and all that other juicy stuff that I love. Helps me stay motivated with my commitment to stay connected with my children, and boy, can I use that motivation at the moment.

Cot naps mean I'm not online as much and have almost finished my baby blanket (crochet). It's so nice, I love it, it's made of bamboo and is so soft.

I think someone asked me a question a while back and I neglected to answer it. Sorry about that if I did. The baking soda has made Ci's head look better but he still lunges at it to scratch. Drives me nuts overnight. I have to hold his arm down beside him. If this doesn't eventually do the trick, I'll move up to antifungals like teatree and whatnot, or perhaps buy a cradlecap solution.

Maybe its just my baby, but the only proof I need to know that constant contact is good is to look at how calm and sunny and relaxed my Lila is. We don't co-sleep much, but during the day she is always touching one of us. Seems like a lot of women my mother's age and older think that handling a baby that way is right next door to obscene or something. Today we were at the grocery and several older women had something to say to me about my calm, sleeping cherub. Everything from I'm spoiling her (A NEWBORN?) to she's going to fall out (as if). I just nod and smile.

that said, maybe Lila is just a temperamentally calm baby. She's draining both boobies now at feeds, doesn't need ebm top up anymore. We're almost all on the breast.

Ack my back is killing me. How soon is too soon to teethe? Lila's drooling profusely and sticking her fists in her mouth every time there isn't a boobie or a bottle there. She's not hungry or upset but jams her fists in her mouth. Also I think there's a little bump on one side of her gums? Not sure, but I think so. Ridiculous.

Fire: I learnt the hard was with DS#1 he was held/rocked to sleep until he was 7 months old. My back just couldn't take it. Started this time, and it's jsut not possible espcially with 2 other children to run after. DD who is 9 can do thing to keep herself happy. But DS well he'll follow's me everywhere saying "What you doing mummy" so poor wyatt can't sleep 'cos he's too much of sick beak and want to know what is happening.

* I don't let him work him self up, it's more of grizling then anything.

I guess its each to there own, we all find ways to deal with our own children. What works for one child is might not work for the next.

Cheers
Sarah

Sarah- I too have sometimes had to let Mj have her grizzle, after rocking and holding her not calming down, when i out her down she normally grizzle for a few mins then is off to sleep. I find sometimes holding her is just to much for her

Plus with 2 other kiddies i just dont have the time, there is only one of me and 3 of them

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Plus with 2 other kiddies i just dont have the time, there is only one of me and 3 of them

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Very well said Beatrix.It would be even hard for you now as well without DH around.

Beside A little cry/grizle never hurt us when we were kids or our parents/grandparent etc... Don't babies have to cry to get there fustrations out and strengthen there lungs??? There are some people (eg my sister) who sookings her/my children way too much, and they get away with blue murder. Yet when they come to my house they are on there best behaviour as they know I wont put up with it.

I sometimes feel like I am a single parent as DH is a farmer. Up and gone to work before children get up, and in winter he sometime gets home before 6pm to spend a whole half hr before the kids go to bed. So it's me 24-7 even on weekends. I sometime wish he would work for someone else then at least we can do things or I could take the weekend off. In summer times it worse he's not home before 8:30 then back out at 1-2am to check the pumps etc. (boring...)

How are things going for you Beatrix, are the kids being helpful? I know I doubt I would cope wihout DD to help to little things.

Well Wyatt is finally down it too 4 goes tonight, so hopefully I might get 7hr, but am not worried if I don't get it. Me off to bed now.

Night all.
Cheers
Sarah

bellelass:That is great to here she is almost all the way back on the boobie... You've done a good job to get her this far.

Wyatt does the same, esp just after he wake up. I guess I will only worry when he get's his whole fist in there, until then he can just suck on his little hand. DH asked that the other night about teeth. I'm NO expert but I would GUESS around the 4-8 month mark.. My children only had 1-3 teeth before there first birthday so am not really sure. Also they were really good you didn't even know they got them.

Hope i helped you a little... (possibly not I know)

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that said, maybe Lila is just a temperamentally calm baby. She's draining both boobies now at feeds, doesn't need ebm top up anymore. We're almost all on the breast.

Ack my back is killing me. How soon is too soon to teethe? Lila's drooling profusely and sticking her fists in her mouth every time there isn't a boobie or a bottle there. She's not hungry or upset but jams her fists in her mouth. Also I think there's a little bump on one side of her gums? Not sure, but I think so. Ridiculous.

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Steph, you have described Baxter to a tee with the drooling. If his dummy falls out, the fist is in! But he's not upset or distressed. Maybe they have just found their hands? Baxter loves to wave a rattle around.

Could you please tell me more about why you were giving Lila EBM top ups? Baxter is becoming very short at feeds, like about 5 minutes at each breast if I'm lucky. He's got a weigh in tomorrow and if it's less than 150gms then I'll be making an appt with my lactation consultant, then his paed.

SG
xo

Based on all your reading Fire what age do they stop needing so much contact?

Greer just puked her entire feed all over me, whilst trying to give her her antibiotics. I'm so glad we hadn't made it to the bed. I feel like I haven't put her down all day. My back is so sore tonight. I got crappy with Ds and DH after the puke. It is the first since 6am this morning so we made it through 14 hours without vomiting.

She is almost asleep so I'll be off to bed now myself.

This is on the huggies website under BeingAParent/YourBabysSleep

This program is a step by step guide to helping your baby or child sleep through the night ? every night. It offers a guide to controlled comforting techniques that are the most tried and proven way to get infants with poor sleeping habits to sleep through the night.

Newborn - 6 months
SIDS and Kids recommend wrapping a baby1 and sleeping them on their back. We always recommend that all parents follow SIDS guidelines when your baby is asleep. During the program we use a technique of settling a baby on their side, however you should never leave your baby to sleep in this position. Follow these steps to settle your baby:


Wrap your baby firmly but not tightly in a lightweight material, cotton or muslin is ideal. This will help him feel secure and take control of his hands, stopping him from catching himself on the face if he flails around. Once baby is sleeping we will then loosen the wrap and roll baby onto their back. Always ensure wrapping is well secured and unable to cover your babies breathing passages. Wrapping is not required after the age of 3 months.
Place him in his cot on his side, facing away from you, and with his feet close to the end of the cot. This is to avoid any eye contact.
Make a note of the time: you?re going to give him 15 minutes to settle. Place one hand on his shoulder and with the other hand pat his bottom. He will probably be crying at this stage but keep patting. When the crying stops then stop the patting. The aim is to get him to fall asleep by himself not pat him off to sleep. If the crying starts again, start patting.
If after 15 minutes he has not settled, pick him up give him a cuddle to settle him down (be careful not to rock him off to sleep) then turning him onto his other side (you will need to go around to the other side of the cot) begin the settling again for a further 15 minutes. You can settle for up to one hour, but after that you should offer a drink.
Once he is sleeping you can then roll him onto his back and loosen and secure the wrap.
Anything under one hour is considered a catnap and you should use the settling techniques to resettle without picking them up first.

It also has a guide as to how much sleep your baby should be having:
Newborn
Number of sleeps per day 4
Average time up during the day between sleeps 1 hour
Time it may take to settle 15 minutes

Newborns will be asleep 16 to 18 hours per day.
Will sleep for 1 to 3 hours at a time.
Anything less than 1 hour is called a catnap or a power nap.
It is expected for baby to wake overnight for a feed.

Grubi, the time is child led. They have one main method of communication – crying. If something makes them cry, we try to figure out what it is and remove it. If something stops them crying, we keep doing it. When, such as my case, you cannot physically do what it is that stops them crying, then you hold them while they cry.

An uncomforted baby is disturbing to most people because they have no resources, no way of understanding why they have been abandoned (which is how it feels to them), and their whole biology - which for centuries has them held by loved ones until recent centuries – aches. As one woman put it well, “we are modern women having Stone Age babies”. They still have their instinctual needs, they haven’t had time to evolve as evolution takes hundreds or thousands of years.

We aren’t instinctual anymore, we listen to fads that say do this that and the other or you’ll spoil the baby or he’ll never sleep again… etc. I can’t always stop Ci crying, but I hold him, he is SO new, he can’t hold himself. I want a hug when I’m sad, or at least for those who love me not to walk away or diminish my feelings. And I’m an adult, an adult that gets to sleep with a loved one, who gets to vent her feelings, who can walk and talk on command. As Steph is seeing, they are all learning self-soothing now, it won’t be long before the crying lessens dramatically on its own as they have learned that skill. My son comes first, my daughter has some self-soothing skills now but he doesn't. He needs my help. My daughter is learning compassion and selflessness, it isn’t appropriate for Ci to learn that and give to her yet. His time will come.

There is no hard and fast rule as to how long they need contact, but the general thing to follow is: if I pick him up, is he happier; if I put him down, is he happier?

Until he can crawl (about 6/7 months) and come to you himself.

Then you know for sure what his needs are. If he is not happy either way, hold him regardless. They are the general emotion safety “rules” basically. I will lay in bed with a crying baby, or sit with one, or walk with one, whatever my body is capable of, and put earplugs in if I have to, but I hold him through it, like I would any adult I love.

Six months is not a long time in a lifetime, as much as this irritates the ***** out of me (I ain’t no earth mama) six months for a lifetime’s installment in my son’s emotional life is not too big an ask. He may want contact after that, when it’s inconvenient, and I’ll give it to him as best I can. But in the early months, when he is at a serious disadvantage, doesn’t understand this big wide world and has simple needs – mama’s body, milk, motion and sucking – then I give him those things.

If you go to the first page of every single Baby Buddies thread on this board, you will see the moderator starts the thread with a page full of resources. Scroll down and look under “sleeping support”. You’ll see CC and CIO are not advocated at BB, and there are alternatives given, including info from The Australian Association for Infant Mental Health (AAIMH). Kelly started this site as a gentle parenting forum.

Those “sleep training” step by step guides are bull*****. Excuse the French. They are a fad created in the last half of last century – written by males with no evidence to support their claims and resulted in the mental health industry questioning the whole gambit and finding contradictory results. “timing” how long an infant can cry and then when a mama may go in and give comfort to her baby, as though they are an inanimate object or a dog in need of training is inappropriate, at best. I find babies incredibly inconvenient and frustrating and mind bending and challenging and I cry regularly and I miss my life and I sometimes even regret the whole bloody deal. My husband is still home because I can't cope! That's how hopeless I am with babies.

But in all that I remind myself everyday that it is the simplest job if I just listen to him: baby cries ~~ fill the need. Even if that need is just to have an angry, sobbing vent on mama's shoulder for a while. I'm nothing if I'm not a good listener. ;)

All this is just for info's sake, btw. I won't judge myself, and I don't judge any of you. But I believe in full disclosure, and that we all deserve to know both sides of a coin.

Steph, drooling and fist sucking – that’s normal at this age. Ci is the same. They are learning to self soothe! Woot! It’s a great developmental step for them, and for you because if they can self soothe, your job is lessened. It’s what most of this first three months is about for them, learning to self soothe. Enjoy! And help her find her fist to suck. Some babies suck their thumb in the womb, and they are almost always great sleepers and very calm when born. The rest of them have to learn that skill. If you stroke the side of a newborn’s mouth, he will raise his hand to his mouth. If you press the palm of their hand, they will turn their head towards that side. Self-soothing is an inbuilt thing for them that they are born with, all the triggers are there for them to learn to do it.

Also, self-soothing comes in the form of breaking eye contact with someone or a stimulus. When over stimulated, self-soothing babies turn away to “regroup”, but the young ones just get bombarded and end up crying (when we step in to again be the soother). All things eventually develop to wean them from needing us body and soul, (but in their time, not ours. We can’t make that happen). But in case it happens to actually be a tooth, keep a finger probing inside there for any buds. It is a bit early but a small minority teethe early.

I forgot to add this analogy that helps explain what is wrong with sleep training and CC etc. And probably could have saved me lots of typing up there. :lol:

The Circus Elephant

To train an elephant to stay and not trample the whole shebang, she is tethered to something very strong by heavy duty cable she cannot break that is covered in barbs so any attempt to leave is painful and futile. She tries and tries valiantly but learns it is pointless, no one is coming, and she ain't going. After a time, the cable is exchanged for flimsy rope. The elephant stays put even though a mere breath of his strength could break that rope because he has "learned" tethered = futility.

Learning to sleep through the night when one's age is counted in months not years can be "trained". None of us APers can deny "it works". But if a baby's pleading gallant efforts are ignored over and over by the parent to the child's only communication system, at what cost does this system "work"?

Are we teaching solid lifelong sleep habits or are we teaching futility?

Fire - i agree that we are living with stone age babies and think i would feel lost with out spending so much time with him. i do put him down when we eat dinner to play or a 5min task. but would never let him get hysterical ( though sometimes like last night it happenss and i put my dinnner down and sat with him as he was getting tired 9pm. none the less 1/2 hour later he was asleep with out feeding and still slept 6 hours and it was 11pm before dp woke me and took russell to bed and i finished my dinner) i will often not put russell down while he sleeps because i enjoy it and so dose he.

Grubi - As for teething it dose vary widely friend f mines 1yr old has 12 teeth and got his 1st at 5 months. and for contact, i am goingt ogive it for aslong as he needs it. as Fire said

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' if I pick him up, is he happier; if I put him down, is he happier? '

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Steph - Russell also sucks on his fist when he wakes up or is on his tummy. he used to cry when put down on his tummy but since found his fist hes happy to stay that way for a little while. I drive and live near PT aswell so i can get to you no problem. are you going to the baby expo this weekend. you can print off free tickets on their website.

Anyone elses babies starting to get interested in differnt tastes , russellis into apples and potatos atm.

we are doing , DP is looking after Russell for 2 hours 2 nights aweek so i can play squash and get fit. yay and russell has slept 6-8 hours all week so feeling good.

Kira, how do you know when he likes something? i've blindly not noticed and am interested...

(do you mean in your milk?)

Fire - Russell sits with us at the dinner table and i just offered him a little mashed potato on my finger and he sucked it off and smiled so i offered him some more and he ate it, so know when i make mash, ill give him a bit and he eats it. if he dosnt like something(like his dummy, which he flat out refuses now for my little pinky finger), he just spits it out and pulls a face at me.

With the apples , i will cut off a chunk and he sucks on it, when hes had enough , he starts spitting it out. though sometimes he spits it 'cos there is no juice left and will suck again when you offer a fresh section. he also likes fruit smoothies(bannana, raspberry and blue berry) and will down it aslong as your offering it.

He appears happy and is interested in textures and tastes so i am allowing him to experiment ect even though they reckon that 4-6months is when you should start that kinda stuff. i read an article that suggested that babies who are Exclusivly breastfed will be receptive to the foods that the mother consumed and i eat all of the above regluarly and he thouroughly enjoys it so am not going to stop eating or offering. I do avoid the obvious like peanuts and strawberries though for saftey sake and if it makes for a non fussy baby then why not.

HE smiles like the pic in my ticker when he likes something

Fire/Janine: I know you are passionate about AP approaches and don't take offence to your post, but I am open to trying just about anything at least once if it works for me I'll keep going. I posted the information on the huggies site for information, some people swear by these methods. I personally can not do it, don't have the tolerance, but it might work for some people. My Mum suggested going to one of those sleep clinics, but I can't even do that, allow someone else to help me get them settled. But this constant hold is killing my upper back.
My little girl is so sick at the moment the only time she is not being held is when she is in the car or manages to fall asleep on the drive, I don't take her out of the capsule until she wakes. I'm getting next to nothing done as I can't manage the sling or the carrier.
I actually asked about the contact thing as my 2 year and 10 month old cries if I won't sleep in the bed with him and at the moment it is hard as DD is power chucking at night so I don't want to have to wake him to change sheets. Like you said DD (baby) comes first as DS has some self soothing ability. Was wondering if it was to continue for years yet as DH keeps saying he wants his wife back.
I'm not doing the best in terms of coping either - to the point that DH and I have agreed that we will NOT be having any more children.

Latest progressive update: Liam is now 4.82 kgs but hasn't grown in length this week. He's now reaching for things deliberately with his hands (toys, us, etc) which is super-cute!

DH just bought me Pinky McKay's book " 100 ways to calm the crying" which I'm beginning to read. Don't have much experience yet on parenting methods so I can't really comment on the topic at hand! I do have a question though : what's AP?? Probably asked that before, but I've forgotten - sorry!

Zennie - I'd be careful with hard foods such as apple that a bit doesn't break off in his mouth. It could be a choking hazard. Just my opinion!

Had Baxter weighed today, only put on 70gms for the week, his weight is now 4.515kgs.

Have an appt with my lactation consultant and his paed next Tuesday. He feeds for 5 minutes at the most at the boob.

Not stressed since he is reaching all his developmental milestones.

Just thought I would update.

Sorry for no personals, little man yelling for me!

SG
xo

NO offence to anyone in the medical profession but bloody hell Dr's and nurses can be a pain in the bum!
BJ's sleeping is a bit spacko at the moment, I think mainly due to the fact that when he was in hospital he was woken every hour or 2 to have his vitals checked.
During the day now he's fine, but at night, he's awake a bit, and taking a bit to settle.
We'll get there, but its frustrating....Also attempting to get him to settle without his dummy as that too is a problem...sound asleep his mouth always falls open, and if it happens at the wrong time, he wakes up and has a spack attack trying to find it!
Due to dummy returns it can take a good hour to get him down at night!

Oh well...nevermind! He's still gorgeous and we'll get there!
Mother's group today, missed last week cause he was sick.

AP = attachment parenting. I don't really like the title, just as I don't like the term "cosleeping" as they make the oldest and still most common method of childrearing in the world sound like a fad. But it works for now.

Grubi, gotcha, and *hug*. No more kids here either. What slings/carriers have you tried? I couldn't do it without a sling, no way. I can barely do it with one, hence why I've had to transition him to the cot for one or two naps a day. My back is a train wreck. I still can’t get much done though as he only leaves me one hand free cos he turtles out of the HaB. I prefer the ergo but he isn’t quite ready for it yet.

Could you leave the sheets pukey? Put a towel down? I sympathise, it sounds tough where you're at. I just survived DD's chicken pox and it was a REAL juggle. I think you're doing a great job, make sure you look after yourself. Would your son stay in the same room as you are settling your daughter as a compromise if taking her in to him is no good?

I laid down with DD to fall asleep until she was less than 3. From then I just did story time and a long cuddle but was out of there by 7.30/8pm and she was fine. She would have been fine earlier really, but i was being as AP as i could be to make up for past "failings". I just recently got DH to take Ci at her bedtime so I can lay with her again. She doesn't "need" it, but I really miss it. It's amazing what you take for granted when you have to do it. Well, I was warned to enjoy this stage cos they grow so fast and then they'll refuse to kiss you as you drop them off and you mourn the nights in the arms of a baby who needs you.

About your post on settling, I thought you posted it as an example of good CC or something, sorry about that. I went to settling school with DD 6 years ago. I had PND and was an absolute wreck (swore off kids back then too!) and was open to anything at the time. I totally came to regret it after I did some research. I had no one giving me other options though, it was all about CC and training at the time so I didn't know. That's why I give the info out now, just in case it's the first someone's heard of it. You can buy sleep trainers for a dime a dozen now, and I can learn how to get my little gumbi to shut up and sleep from pretty much anyone but getting ANY kinda hands on AP help is all but impossible. I finally found a doctor who never once questioned me about not vaxing and on my way out the door said, "I'm glad you are cosleeping. I can't say this too loud, if you catch my drift, but more parents should do it." and winked at me. I'll keep him. :lol: But still, it isn't practical advice on how to deal with a full family and stay attached to your baby.

I say, do what you need to do to keep yourself together. Don't wreck your body trying to fit some ideal. The ideal is there to keep this culture on the right track, but most of us don't live tribally or even comunally so it's a tough slog. I had to quit slinging for most of the time and I feel weird with the loss of it so gawd knows how unsettling it is for him. I actually sit in the hammock with him through some naps just to extend our contact, but I read a book and stay comfortable and can easily resettle him that way too. He goes into the cot drowsy but awake now which I did not expect at this early age, so I get decent naps out of him when he is in it. I've gone gently gently slowly slowly but it's working. Gotta compromise, I've got a daughter and a marriage to maintain.

ETA - this might be the last long post from me for a while. (breathe sigh of relief!) Just bored as I bounce Master Small Person here.

Fire

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Gotta compromise, I've got a daughter and a marriage to maintain.

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I hear you loud and clear!!
No time to type anything more just now as have to get everyone ready for their day, will try to get back later.
Oh and thanks for the kind words and :hug::hug:

Grubi:Wyatt has settled into his own routine, now that we have tried CC. As stated previously I don't let him get worked up. He's is more of a grizle then crying. I was against it too. But had serious melt down last saturday and rung GF and she told me to give it a try. I wont hurt if it doesn't work. I had to do something, 'cos I was taking everything out on anyone else, esp my children. (sad to say) So i gave it ago. and it seems to be working

So this what we do, we get wrapped up nice and tight, have our boobie, sit him up over shoulder and get a burp out of him then to put him into bed awake/drunk boobie sleepish...

He will start to grizle for mum to come and get him 'cos he doesn't want to be in there. I'll let him grizle, for 1-2minute with baby montor on listening in. then go back in give him some more boobie, and back into bed and he drifts off. Oh, I leave the TV on during the day, so he hears the background noise.

Grubi, all you can do it try.

Fire: Wyatt loves his ergo, I have used it from when he was 5 days old. Have you got the infant instert?

cheers
sarah

Okay so Wyatt finally got his 8w needle. And he's gone to bed (6:30pm), he was falling sleep on his disa, so I took him in the hopes he would wake up, but no. So I wrapped him up and put him straight to bed. Not even a grizle from him. I am about to wake him up so he will sleep later on tonight. (7pm)

Did anyone else's baby just want to go for nap? Should I be worried. I mean he had his needles at 1:30pm so if he was going to have bad reaction he should on had it first half hour. But nothing yet, seems quite happy

Was not happy my Dr, who I love dearly 'cos he is younger (40ish) and english speaking was not there today. They made my appointment with some other Dr. If I could have gotten another appointment with my Dr this week I would have. But I couldn't get in until late next week, so I swallowed my annoance and got them done, even thought I could not understand a word he said to me.

Anyway he's waking up so I am off for the night, I hope all your babies are eating lots, sleeping lots as well.

Night

Hi Sarah,
Yeah BJ did that too with his 8w needles.
The Dr told me that the 8w ones could make them quite drowsy.
It was the night of his needle that he slept 12 hours straight

Sarah, reactions to those needles can happen much later than half an hour. I dunno where they get these time frames from, bloody doctors. Apparently doctors don't report 90% of reactions, plus they blame something else when kids get really sick, "Oh, it was a couple of days after the shots, couldn't have been them..." Your sleeping trials sound much more gentle than they initially did, btw. :) I hope you have continued success!

Crap night last night. Fed every hour after 2am. One good thing is that he had a huge 6.30pm feed and then went until 11.30! Five hours is the definition of "sleeping through the night" apparently so my kid slept through the night last night! :lol: I think he's having a growth spurt. He's eating for the nation.

oh man....

I need some sleep, having all 3 girls is really starting to drain me. Thank god its ExDH weekened and i am free of Teleah and Annika. I love them and all but i can only handle so much.

And to top it off I slept funny last night and now have pulled my shoulder muscle. Everytime i move im in pain and picking up MJ puts tears in my eyes

and now she is crying............

:hug: Beatrix. I feel for you, doing it alone with just a baby would be hard enough, but with 3. Is there any chance ExDH can take them for a bit longer to give you a break during these first few months?
In relation to my marriage ATM I know that I am shutting out my DH. I could blame him for the way he is of late - we call him the shellfish ATM - but a lot of the reason why he is doing his own thing more often is probably because when he majes the effort I either growl or shun him - which is making things a little difficult for us. Thankfully he knows that it is largely my reaction to being a new Mum again.
I can't talk to him about how I feel because I think it will come out all wrong, I can't explain it to anyone, not that I have anyone to talk to besides my Mum anyway.
I know I need to start focusing on the positives, but I'm so down on our relationship that it is a battle.:wall:
On the up side DD and DS are good.
Sarah They say the reaction is in the first 24 hours, but I'd agree with Fire it could happen anytime, they have just been given an illness, the body has to fight it. When you are sick you sleep more don't you. Watch for fever that is the main thing that will indicate a reaction.

Sg- it was a "just in case" top up while she was learning how to finish a breast. It gets harder to suck towards the end. I don't do that much now, though I do express for the "end of the night" feed still since she's super lazy and tired and grizzly by then. Sounds like your little man will have a nice growth spurt soon, you're right not to sweat it as long as he's hitting milestones. I feel like such a bad mummy (not really), I have no idea what they are and when. I just kind of generally judge by how everyone else's baby is going on here. Does he ever stay on longer than 5 minutes? Is it 5 minutes at a time or is it 5 minutes and then that's it no more boobie? Does he feed often?

Kira- I'd love to meet up/ go to group if you're sure you wouldn't mind driving. Not going to the expo this weekend, we have an Indian wedding on Saturday (Soooooooo excited, good food and good friends and heaps of traditional-style new mums and dancing and bright saris and such goooooood food and henna and did I mention the food?) and a friend coming up from the coast on Sunday... If you'd like to meet somewhere maybe next week and we can each see that the other one is normal and not an ax-wielding maniac then let me know. Maybe tues or wed?? I give Lila tastes of things, too. She really loves sucking on apple wedges. I tried a bit of banana the other day and she liked that, too but I was scared she'd gum off a piece and choke so it didn't last long. I even give her tastes of sauces like pizza and hoisin. I just try to keep the salt to minimum and don't give her anything that will burn her mouth. Dh and I eat a lot of hot chilies. Do you think it goes into my milk?

Janine- Wow that's a lot of info. I like your story about the elephant, that's pretty much exactly why I do what I do with Lila. That said, lately she's been waking around 6am and kind of snuffles/grizzles and I let her and she puts herself back to sleep for a few hours. I kind of feel bad, but I think it works ok. And if she was really upset I'd go to her in a flash. Woohoo on Ci sleeping "through the night," may he continue to do so, and do it actually at night time. hehe. I really really really wish we still lived in tribes or even in nice tight communities. I must say though I have more "community" type support here than I would back home. For example, I'm friends with my neighbors, several of whom have small children and we kind of help each other out. And I'm lucky enough to have some very lovely and hands-on in laws who help out heaps... But still..

Grubi- Sounds like you're having a rough time. My husband gets all sad and needy for attention too, and asks where his wife went. There have been heaps of times when all I wanted to do was collapse into bed and sleep but he's wanted attention so I cuddle him and listen to him and tell him things. He appreciates the effort even if I'm not 100% and he does stuff for me... Like taking Lila for a few hours so I can nap, or making dinners or housework or whatever. So we end up with the opposite of a vicious cycle going. I just hate it when I feel like we don't spend time together... Anyway I only have one kid but that's how we do things and it works. Just keep telling yourself it won't always be this way.

Beatrix- :hug: I can't imagine how hard things are for you, you're doing such a good job taking care of your girls and keeping going despite everything else. I hope you get a little help soon.

Nettie- Lila is reaching for things, too. Like daddy's nose. Etc. Its adorable...

I went to visit SIL and her new baby the other day. I'm still shocked. She weighs about 30 grams more than mine did at birth, but she seems so teeny tiny to me. Lila seems MASSIVE and so grown up next to her. I even felt weird holding my niece, like I would break her or something. Hah. It really struck me how much Lila's grown and developed in the past few months. And I felt like such a veteran new mom, if such a thing exists. I guess it just really boosted my confidence over all because I could see exactly how far we've come. I mean, wow, Lila even goes onto the breast with proper attachment and no dramas now.

She's getting to be so sweet and cute and good. Such a good girl. I was so worried I'd lose the plot with a little baby that I didn't want to have, but she's become such a source of happiness for me. I love getting up with her in the morning and having a cuddle, and cleaning her fat, pink little body and talking to her and listening to her little gurgles. I'm really starting to enjoy her, and a mad part of me wants her to always be this little. At the same time I am looking forward to her being big.

I guess it helps that she's generally settled into a good routine... though last week it was disturbed for some unfathomable reason and I thought I would die... up around 7-8am, change and cuddle and big feed. I express the milk she doesn't have for breakfast and make my own breakfast and some coffee. Then she wants another feed, and I shower and put her in the sling. Usually cook and do housework for a few hours and have lunch etc before I take her off for afternoon feed. then she plays with daddy for a little while, sometimes I sling her again for some more chores. Then from about 5pm to 10-11pm she feeds full stop. I've tried consolidating feeds but nothing doing. Its almost solidly feeding during that time and has been for weeks and weeks. Then she goes to sleep til the next morning. I find I can deal with anything as long as I've had enough sleep, if I haven't I am stroppy and angry and upset.

For the rest of it, I just do what I am capable of doing and don't let myself worry about what I can't get to. I have found that if I try to hurry Lila along or do something "on schedule" (feeds, cuddles, changes, anything) she gets upset and I get upset and its no good. I just try to take her as she comes. So my laundry sits out on the line for a night or two, or the dishes sit in the sink overnight or the rubbish bin overflows sometimes... It is getting easier though.

Grubi - you have us to talk to!! I'm sure no-one will mind if you spill your heart out here. After all, what else is this for??

Liam had his 8w shots yesterday (a week late because the CYH nurse was sick last week) and after an initial cry at the pain, he was fine. Slept normally but didn't seem to eat as much as normal. He's down for a sleep now...

Thanks for the clarification Janine - I figured it was called 'something' parenting! DH & I had no plans for a parenting style, but we seem to be doing this AP and babywearing (against stupid nurses advice!) and he sleeps in a basinette at the end of our bed - so kinda co-sleeping! I see on the news tonight (here in SA anyway) some Dr or someone has come out and said about how dangerous it is to co-sleep with your baby and to have them on a soft mattress... a coroner has made some finding about 5 deaths. Sounds like a cop-out to me! I know my little man is a happy and healthy boy because of how much attention and time we give him. I'm not about to stop what I'm doing because some spinster of a nurse tells me 'oh, you don't want to go starting that!'. Stupid woman! Sorry - she really p*ssed me off!

Nessa - :hug: Shame you're not closer hun - I'd visit & help out!

Got to go - he's just woken up!

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Grubi - you have us to talk to!! I'm sure no-one will mind if you spill your heart out here. After all, what else is this for??

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Thanks Nettie, but it's not something that I want to share with the cyber universe IYKWIM. Someone might put 2 and 2 together and come up with us, then it's public. I know that it won't last forever and I have an absolutely wonderful DH in how he helps and is with the kids, when he is here. I know that I won't end up having to do it on my own.

This afternoon I went through a bunch of old photos to help me focus on the positives and remind myself why
i love him. I'm smiling, we are email talking - its all good!

Nettie-- Unless its something that is directly medical related I just don't listen to the Drs or nurses. It seems like there's so much mis-information and half-baked theories out there and they act like if you don't do it that way then you're some kind of Philistine or worse. I think I posted here about my experience with the Dr when I got her 8w shots- making fun of my cloth nappies, telling me her sleeping patterns were all wrong, all kinds of balderdash. You're quite right, as long as your man is happy and healthy you aren't doing anything wrong. Grumble grumble...

Grubi- I kind of worry about that too, like someone might read my posts and know who I am and then I'll catch flak for it. I don't have many friends either, and definitely no friends with babies so I know how it is. If you want to chat or vent you can pm me, maybe email. I know its not much but there it is. I'm nice. I promise. :) The other day I went through photos from our wedding and it was a real boost, helps to focus on the happiest times.

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Does he ever stay on longer than 5 minutes? Is it 5 minutes at a time or is it 5 minutes and then that's it no more boobie? Does he feed often?

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The weight gain of only 70gms last week was when I started to feed him unwrapped and in the lounge room. I've now reverted to wrapping him again and feeding him in his room where it is darker and quiet. I'm proud to say we are up to around 15 minutes feeding time (both breasts), whereas before it would be 3 minutes either side, and no boobie after that (immense screaming!). I express after his first two feeds of the day (get about 80mls) and give that after his third and fourth feeds of the day.

He feeds at roughly:

7.30am
9.30am
12.00 noon
2.30pm
5.15pm
7.15pm
10.30pm

I don't wake him to feed, he naturally follows this routine. I've tried offering more, but he's just not interested. So hopefully a better gain will be recorded next week. Still keeping my LC appt.

Have you any suggestions at all? Or do you think I'm doing the right thing...

SG
xo

PS - regarding cyber vs real world, I only post things on here that I would say IRL.

hmmm you know, if he feeds strongly at each breast, like he has a good suck and attachment and knows what he's about then I'd say you're probably doing just the right thing. If he's not hungry, he's not hungry. If he is, then he knows where to get it and how to get it. Right? He'll likely have a day or three of unsettled wanting the boob all the time and then have a grow. Sounds like you're doing the right thing giving him what he needs when he needs it, just hang in there. You're doing well I think. (fwiw) :)

Thanks Steph, I think you are right. Yes, he attaches by himself and sucks strongly for the time that he is on there.

Thanks heaps for your support.

SG
xo

SG Sounds to me that you are doing everything right. If you are not worried then he is fine. Mums know best they are around bubs more than the professionals/ medical staff offering advice on what should be.

IRL, I don't know how I'd determine if I could have the conversation with someone, but I know that it isn't even something I am comfortable discussing with my one close friend who has 3 kids of her own, despite her having talked to me about the issues she has had with her DH. I don't want to air our dirty laundry outside of our home really. I must admit, I've been making progress with self resolving in the past two days. So I'm feeling much better as I have worked out that it is my blocking and unwillingness to let him in that is the biggest issue. So now to try and do as Fire suggested and actually work on maintaining my marriage, so far I have been focusing on the two kids neglecting myself and isolating DH from the family.

SG def doing a great job

Thanks for all your comments girls, I sometimes have no idea how i do it either...

I am flat out atm.. I do my ebay stuff, just started consulting for a cloth nappy company, have full care of all 3 kiddies (cept for the older two one a fortnight)

I wish i could afford a maid... I am seriusly thinking of getting some one in once a week or fortnight to mop/dust/vaum/toilet bathroom etc

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So my laundry sits out on the line for a night or two, or the dishes sit in the sink overnight or the rubbish bin overflows sometimes... It is getting easier though.

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Belle: I so know what you mean. Things seem to just pile up, and I know no one else in the 5 person house isn't going to do them but me. So if any of them don't like it they can't get off their bum and do it.
*Wyatt only feeds for 5mins and he's done. I must have a fast flow but he's not on long. And it's only one boobie. However he want more 20-30minutes down the track.


Went shopping for ME today. It's funny when you are a mum you seem to buy for everyone else in the household but yorself, so I went and brought mainly tops to wear around house and a few nice ones to wear out. Am sick to death of looking FAT in tops I have. Me still got tubby tummy. It made me feel guilty a bit, that I speant so much on me. But hey I need them, so I know I shouldn't.

Anyway Wyatt sleep his 7hr last night again before he woke up for his boobie. I had prepared myself for bad night. But he was wonderful.

Anyway I better go, we are going out for dinner tonight. So have to go and get the tribe ready.

Cheers
Sarah

Sarah Don't feel guilty, because if you work it out you spend that much once or twice a year on yourself and in the 12 times you buy for everyone else it adds up to more than that once or twice spend up.

You need to feel good about yourself to ensure that your kids and DH get teh best out of you too. If you feel crap then you aren't likely to want to give of yourself either.

BTW, I still ahve my tubby tummy too! ;)

It feels like I haven't been on here for ages, so much to catch up on, I just can't do it.

Oliver had his needles today, and he had real tears, made me want to cry, but he was very good, and was his normal chatty self this afternoon.

As for me I can just feel myself sinking lower, my BF has told me that if my mood/feelings don't improve by next week she is dragging me off to the Dr's, my first thought was that I was then just going to pretend that I was happy, and everything was OK but I have this feeling that she will be able to see through me. I find myself crying for no particular reason nearly every day, the only food I can bring myself to eat is 'crap' except when DH cooks me dinner. I am also extremely peed off with my brother as I found out the other day that he has told his eldest son (17 year old) some very private information that if it got back to my eldest DS the $hit would hit the fan, you may be able to guess what that info is, but i'm not going to mention it JIC he or his GF come on this site to 'spy' on me (not that I think he would though), so I now have to have a 'chat' with my 19 y/o DS about something that I wanted to wait a little longer to do as I just don't feel like I can handle anything to go wrong emotionally in my life ATM. ARGH! this $hit is doing my head in! sometimes I think it would be nice to go to sleep and not wake up!

Sharon: I DONT know what you are going through but all I and anyone else can say if hang in there. You have Jordan and chubby little Oliver to play with... As much as I hate getting out of bed in the morning, who else is going to take care of the children. Dad's can do it but now where near as good or well as us mother's can do it.

I hope you are feeling emoitional better soon.

Sarah