Hi Nelle, i kind of understand what you mean, but in that case is it the cause of the behaviour that's wrong or the behaviour itself? If i'm annoyed at someone and scream at them even though i know it won't help, it is the screaming that's the problem, not the being annoyed. Everyone gets annoyed, it's a fact of life. We cannot control what everyone else does, we can only hope to control what WE do. Why is it up to someone else to see how i'm about to behave and help me prevent it? Why is it not up to ME to control my own actions?

As far as i can tell from reading on the subject psychopathy in children is more common than psychopathy in adults, indicating that it is something which CAN be grown out of/remedied. In many cases the signs are clear and raise concerns but are common enough that no massive intervention is made. In a recent essay i read Mary Bell was compared to Dennis Nilsen.

Mary Bell's father was a thief, in and out of prison, who didn't live with his family so that the mother could collect government benefits. Mary Bell's mother was a prostitute who frequently left Mary alone while she went off to "work" in Glasgow (from Newcastle). Mary said as an adult that her mother used to sell her to customers as a very small child too, though when Mary was a child she denied this and all family members asked (many of whom were happy to confirm Betty Bells other misdemeanors as a parent, say they were unaware of it or outright deny it, Mary's brother says he never witnessed it). Mary suffered at least 3 "accidental" drug overdoses as a small child, which probably left her with brain damage. Aged 5 she saw her five-year-old friend killed by a bus right in front of her. Mary's mother frequently dumped her as a baby, leaving her with family members, strangers, anyone, but always going back for her and refusing to fully give up her child. The mother sounds (just IMO) like she had histrionic or narcissistic personality disorder. She was not a consistent or loving mother and Mary was not cared for and protected. When she was 10 Mary, with the company of her friend Norma (who was not convicted of the killings) strangled two little boys, aged 3 and 4, to death. One of them was cut and shaved after death, his genitals cut and an M carved into his stomach with a razor. She then wrote notes saying she was a killer, went to the victims houses and asked to see the babies in their coffins, and followed the parents in the street asking "Do you miss him? Do you cry? Are you sad he's dead?" She was convicted in December 1968 and sent first to a high-security reform school and then to prison. She was released in 1980. She was convicted of "Manslaughter due to diminished responsibility" as the court doctors found her exhibiting the classic psychopathology symptoms. She was offered, but was resistant to, counselling throughout her time in custody. She appears to be reformed but not through external help. She had a daughter in 1984 whom she was allowed to keep. Clearly EVERYTHING about Mary Bell's childhood was dangerous and damaging. Her younger brother, who grew up within the same household, killed no one.

Dennis Nilsen's parents marriage was an unhappy one, his father was a poor provider and he and his 2 siblings lived from early on with his maternal grandparents. Dennis especially loved his grandfather. His childhood was not violent, there was no abuse either rumoured or documented. Dennis himself thinks seeing his grandfather's body after he'd died (when Dennis was 6) was what damaged him. He says his mother took him to see, but didn't explain in advance that his grandfather had died. He never exhibited rage, cruelty to animals or other children, or any type of aggressiveness typically associated with conduct-disordered boys who become killers later in life. In fact, he was horrified by cruelties that he witnessed by others. He and a friend once found the body of a man who had drowned when drunk, while part of a search party looking for said man. He was pretty much a loner, homosexual but single. He joined the army but was discharged for alcoholism. In 1975 he had a boyfriend he lived with for 2 years but eventually asked him to leave. Between 1978 and 1983 he killed at least 15 men. He got them very drunk or drugged, then drowned or strangled them. He then kept the bodies for several days, posed and washed them, then hid them under floorboards, in cupboards, around his home for months. When he ran out of space after several killings, he disposed of a body. He then dismembered and disposed of the bodies, flushing some parts of them down the lavatory, leaving entrails out for wildlife, burning some, burying some. He was eventually caught when the drains, unable to cope, blocked up and a company was called to unblock them. The police were called when human remains were found. Nilsen didn't deny when he realised he was caught. Many of his victims have no names since they were homeless and not missed at the time and Nilsen himself doesn't remember their names or didn't ask them. None of his siblings grew up to be killers.

So we see that from 2 very different beginnings came two similar ends. Surely Mary Bell's mother made criminal errors in the upbringing of Mary, not bonding with her at all, failing to protect her, CAUSING her harm, and leaving her daughter anchorless in a cruel and twisted world. One might almost say Mary had very little chance of being normal, even if she HADN'T become a killer. And then Dennis Nilsen's mother who in fact did her best, did not abuse him or expose him to danger, tried to keep him safe and treat him well. Sure, the final respects to his grandfather could have been handled better, but perhaps her father's death had skewed her own ability to think clearly that day, or perhaps she DID explain and in his distress and sense of los Dennis diesn't remember. Do we find that error, the one to which Dennis attributes his future behaviour, to be a criminal one, and what course of action should be taken? No children to see dead relatives? Professional counselling to be provided to every family?

I think basically we can only ask in retrospect what makes someone do something. Yes, i think we should investigate why people do what they do to some extent, for their rehabilitation. But ultimately we cannot know in advance what will make one person a killer.

Bx