Humanism

[suse]

I agree with you there Trillian - I want my child to be taught about religion, I don't want him being taught to be religious (unless that is the path he chooses to follow of his own volition). I think that it is as important for people of faith to learn that atheism/agnosticism is a valid belief system as it is for those without faith to respect those who follow a religion. Although this is by no means the norm, I have encountered some who believe that faith is a prerequisite to morality - a perception that disturbs me greatly. Perhaps a greater understanding of the tenets of a stance such as Humanism would help to address such perceptions.

[Trillian]

You're onto something there Suse, I've experienced that too, that because I don't have a religion, or follow one, then how can I possible have as many morals and live as good a life as someone who does. It would be interesting to see how this is handled (meaning the advent of this as an alternative to be taught) by those of a strong religious background that they can accept that you can still have a perfectly functioning morals/belief system yet not have God in your life to do it.

[Inanna]

Me three - I find it curious that there is a large movement in our society that if we are not Christian Church goers we simply don't have good values/morals. I had a friend of my DD13 mother visit my house (DD13 has Aspergers and as such behavioural issues) and when she saw Buddha sitting atop my loungeroom said: "maybe if you subscribed to Christian values you wouldn't have these problems with her"... I almost choked on my Chai! I kindly and respectfully told her that my "values" dn't extend to characater judgeents based on ones religious/spiritual or ethical value systems. (she is a JW - so Christian based).

This certainly isn't a reflection on her religion but on her own values - but that experience highlighted to me how narrow some people are in their characters.

My children's pseudo grandparents (he is an Anglican minister) have openly run down the school my children attend - saying it is a cult and they will never be employed or be accepted into the army... That learning meditation and yoga is pointless - "and all of that singing and dancing that those kids do is just silly..." When my son won an award for excellence in Maths they scoffed and said "it's not a real school"...

Folk can be and sadly are just plain unkind and narrow. How do we change it. We change ourselves. We don't react to unkindness with more unkindness - we stand firm in our values and gently relay them to others...

I think Humanisim in school isn't just a good thing - it's a necessary one!

[Trillian]

Deb, that's really sad that you've had to deal with people who, for all intents and purposes, are good people, but they hold such a narrow minded and almost bigoted view of how you raise your children and choose to educate them simply because it is based on something that is different to their own experience.

Amy, did your Father and Grandfather ever come across difficulties when people realised what ideology they subscribed to?

[Aimz]

I live in a regional town which one from a city would call "small" (pop. 50,000). Our community is predominantly Christian. The mentality of “faith equals morals” that Suse raised runs deep here and you would not shout "I am an Atheist/Humanist" to the skies unless you were willing to cop a lot of negative reactions. As an example - my workplace's Board says a prayer at the commencement of each meeting. It is engrained in the people here.

What I hope will come of this new curriculum is the understanding that Atheism/Humanism also carries with it a set of principles/morals/values/ethics. It is not just a shunning of God - it is just a belief that there is no divine power over people's actions but that people strive to be good on their own merits. That is not to say that we are all morally bankrupt - we just don't have a higher power that drives us. I don’t believe that morals or ethics have any necessary connection with religion.

It angers me that in one article on this topic a researcher made the statement “If you go there, where do you stop? What about witchcraft or Satanism? If you accredit humanism, then those things would have an equal claim to be taught in schools". I mean come on. We’re not talking about devil worship here – we’re talking about the teaching of good ethics without the notion of a divine being. It’s not witchcraft!! And to even make a correlation with Humanism and Witchcraft is ridiculous seeing as Humanists would also reject this as it is full of supernaturalism and Satanism is the worship of another entity which cannot be proven to exist.

I hope once it proves to be successful in Victoria that it will move onto other states. I would love to see it here in NSW. I agree that this is something we NEED. If we’re going to teach our kids about ALL religious groups and belief systems then Atheism/Humanism should be one of them. It’s not about taking God out of schools - it’s about introducing choice. It should be offered as an alternative.

Humanism is a legitimate world view just as Catholicism, Anglicanism or Islam is. None is more provable than the other. We are a multi-cultural society which means we are a multi-faith society and that has to include the acceptance of non religious belief systems.

[Trillian]

IKWYM about ingrained beliefs and refusal to acknowledge that others have merit as a separate entity - especially since locally there has been a rise in the all-singing-all-dancing evangelical religions. I do find it somewhat bemusing that those that follow a Christian belief system cannot allow themselves to accept that there are other doctrines that are just as good, but different to their own. I think a lot of criticism of other religions/ideologies etc comes forth because they simply do not understand it or it makes them question their own beliefs. It concerns me that there would be some who would be more than happy to see things stay as they are and not introduce Humanism into schools - but what makes their *claim* on RE in schools just as valid? It's like saying 'ours is better than yours' and that is a scary road to start travelling down.

[Inanna]

I think personally that behind all racisim, religionisim etc is fear of the unknown. I too have a giggle when I hear this Christian religion biting about that Christian religion... I think that bigotry is given it's fertiliser with fear...

Us humans find it difficult to embrace that which is different - and how many wars has that caused???

[Aimz]

Another of the Humanism Core Principles is relevant here...

Children shall not be subjected to physical and mental abuse, nor to religious or political indoctrination by parents or others. The rights of children should be codified in a charter of children's' rights.

While parents, guardians and elders have a responsibility towards their children (and vice versa) this responsibility does not give a carte blanche for them. Today most legal jurisdiction interdict physical and sexual abuse of children by anybody including parents. This is as should be. But what the law does not do is to prevent the political and religious indoctrination of children. Religions are allowed to conduct ceremonies like Baptism in Christianity, circumcision in Judaism and Islam and the thread ceremony of Hinduism. Children are incapable of understanding what is done to them in such ceremonies. Humanists should deny the existence of such rights for parents, priests and the like. This rule does not mean that children should not be inculcated in ethical standards. But these should be a basic non-religious kind of ethical standards. There is still no formal charter of Children's' Rights. The biggest impediment to the creation of such a charter will come not from theists who will not give up their right to automatically impose their religion on their children.

It doesn't say anything about teaching ALL religions to children, which is what I will personally be doing - so I don't agree completely with this statement. But the part about religious groups feeling it's their right to impose their beliefs onto children is just so true - its a general assumption that this will happen if you belong to one of those groups. But I do agree with the part about only teaching basic ethical standards to a child which are non religious - Athiests and the like do this anyway - at least that's how I was raised.