Jehovah's Witness'

[Peg]

1. Now I know that you have your own scripture that you use to illustrate your point, but WRT the trinity, and Jesus - how do you go about the verse in Philippians 2 that Cricket quoted in the previous thread? How about in Genesis 1:26 when it says "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."

2. Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've read (and heard) that the watchtower (which I believe is the authority under which JW's reside) have on a number of occasions changed/added to or updated the scriptures? How does that work? Does that not go against Revelation 22:18-19?

I had thought of other things that Ive forgotten now I'll most likely be back

berenice has already answered, but i just thought i'd add a little about the 'Us' in genesis.

We've been shown by John 1:1 that Jesus existed with God when he says "And the word with with God"

So we know that Jesus and the many other angels in heaven existed with God....the Us is them. God was speaking to the other spirit beings existiing with him in heaven. Job 38:4 also tells us that with the creation of the physical world "All the sons of God began shouting in applause"

*Job 38:4*Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?
...*7*When the morning stars joyfully cried out together,
And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?

And there is another verse about the one who was the very first spirit creation of God in Psalms 8 which shows that this one (who can only be Jesus) helped his father in the physical creation
22*“Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23*From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. ... 30*then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31*being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men

So the 'us' in genesis are the spirit sons of God including Jesus, who resided with him in heaven before the physical world was created.

[Starfish]

This is a very interesting thread. I have a question that I don't think has been covered, regarding witnessing. (I hope its not out of line.) I was just wondering about when JW's go door knocking and talking to people in the street, etc. Who determines where and when you go witnessing? Or does each JW choose this? Is there a certain "quota" of witnessing that you have to do, i.e. a certain number of people you should speak to a year, etc? I apologise if this sounds really stupid or offensive (I don't mean to be), but it is something that I have sometimes wondered.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

All JW's are divided into 'congregations', which are basically just suburbs divided up so that there aren't too many/few JW's in a congregation. So you'll have 4 borders, generally main roads, that make up your 'territory'. Each territory is sectioned into separate maps, about 40 in my congregation, that has between 5-10 blocks on it. We try and cover all of our territory regularly, at least every 6 months, and there is a brother in each congregation who is in charge of looking after the maps and making sure that different maps get done, rather than just the same ones.

WRT the witnessing 'quota', its kind of yes and no. For me, I am just a publisher, so I go witnessing when I can, generally once a week, and I average 5-10 hours per month. Some people however, make the choice to be 'pioneers', and this means they work fulltime in the ministry. For a regular pioneer, this means getting 70 hours per month. These pioneers also generally work parttime to support themselves, so they are very busy! We even have missionaries, in different countries all over the world, and their 'quota' is 120 hours per month! It is all a personal choice though, you don't have to be a pioneer, and even if you are one, if you are having difficulty you can always ask for help or stop being a pioneer - it's not written in stone

Hope that answers your question!

[Starfish]

Thanks Berenice!

Can I ask another question. What is the "aim" of witnessing? I have read here that contrary to popular belief JW's don't actually try to convert people. Do you report your witnessing activities to anyone, e.g. brother, church elder? If so, what do you say?

[Peg]

Thanks Berenice!

Can I ask another question. What is the "aim" of witnessing? I have read here that contrary to popular belief JW's don't actually try to convert people. Do you report your witnessing activities to anyone, e.g. brother, church elder? If so, what do you say?

Our reasons for witnessing are 2 fold. The first and foremost reason is to to 'teach and make diciples'. But we would only do this if people ask us to teach them. We offer a free home bible study to do that and we visit them on a regular basis and provide them with study aids and a bible if they dont have one. The goal is obviously to help them gain enough bible knowledge for them to make an informed decision about becoming a JW, so i guess you could call it conversion....but its a conversion based on knowledge rather then an emotional conversion that we see in some church's. To become a JW may take several years for some people. A person must make any needed changes in their life. If they are a smoker, they need to stop smoking, if they have addictions, they must get out of those addictions. They also need to conform their life to the standards of the bible, unmarried couples need to become married etc etc ...so it could take a very long time for some to make those decisions.

The second reason is to 'preach', that is spread the message that Jesus wanted his followers to spread. That message is that God has established a kingdom that will soon resolve all of mankinds troubles and all mankind must know this message. They dont have to accept it of course but they all have to hear it because God wants all people to have the choice. This is why we keep coming back...even when the householder isnt interested.

We do report our activity. Every month each publisher puts a report of how many hours we spent and how many magazines or books we placed...and of course how many bible studies we are currently conducting (if any). Each congregation gathers that information from each of its members and sends the totals into Bethel located in NSW. From there the information from the entire country is sent to Bethel in America, along with every other country where JW's are located and the worldwide data is released once a year.

[Peg]

remove double post

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Not a JW but do want to spread the JW love a bit - I have really enjoyed the home Bible studies I have done with JWs. And not once have I felt pressured into converting; I've been having chats for over 2 years now. ( clearly not good enough for the JWs!)

I wouldn't convert unless I was convinced of all of the teachings, whereas I'm happy to go to a Church were I only agree with 95% of the teachings, because it's OK to disagee with the Church but not with the JW teachings. Which I do respect - I almost wish that my normal Church was so keen on getting wrinkles ironed out and everyone agreeing!

[Starfish]

Thank Peg. Very interesting, and it seems like a very sensible way of "converting" someone, i.e. letting them make the decision themselves and then taking all the necessary steps before actually being allowed to join.

It does lead to another question though: what if someone stops smoking, gets rid of their addictions, etc because they want to become JW, and then, say a few years down the line, something traumatic happens to them that triggers all these bad habits to start again? I am thinking that you would hope that their faith would get them through and that they no longer need these "crutches", however I know that for some people addiction is actually a physical illness. Would the church help them get back on track?

[Peg]

Not a JW but do want to spread the JW love a bit - I have really enjoyed the home Bible studies I have done with JWs. And not once have I felt pressured into converting; I've been having chats for over 2 years now. ( clearly not good enough for the JWs!)

I wouldn't convert unless I was convinced of all of the teachings, whereas I'm happy to go to a Church were I only agree with 95% of the teachings, because it's OK to disagee with the Church but not with the JW teachings. Which I do respect - I almost wish that my normal Church was so keen on getting wrinkles ironed out and everyone agreeing!

I wouldnt say you are not good enough lol, everyone is good enough for God and 2 years isnt a very long time really. I studied on and off for about 7 years! But i do understand the reasons why people hold back. Its a real sacrifice to become a jw. And you are absolutely correct, you have to be 100% convinced that it is the truth. If you are not fully convinced then you are not likely going to live according to what you've learned and thats what is required of JW's.

But good on you for studying....thats really the only step to becoming convinced. The people who Paul preached to didnt just accept what they heard from him. The account in Acts tells us that they really studied to make sure that what they were learning from the christians was true.

Acts 17:10*"Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Be‧roe′a, and these, upon arriving, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11*Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes‧sa‧lo‧ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."