What do YOU think?

[NaeNae]

Keike, I don't want to be a smart bum either no hell? does that mean everyone gets into heaven? I am just curious is all not wanting to start a debate or anything.

What do I believe?

I believe media coverage has expanded so much with so many new forms of technologies that when the earth so much as farts everyone knows about it.

Australia is only a baby in terms of white settlement and recording so how do we know that the Vic fires in 2008 were the worst ever, or the floods now are the worst ever ...... we only know as far back as they recorded. Are there really MORE events happening? or is it just that we hear more about them now because technology makes it so?

I personally don't believe in armageddon, being the end of the world. I do recall watching a fascinating doc with a different approach to the writings of Matthew. They suggested that the lingo was coded to get messages out to others that could not be decifered by the badies. for example the horsemen of the apocalypse, the colours represented different things like green for illness. Armageddon and the talk about it, I believe there was a war with incredible bloodshed on/in an area of a similar name (cannot remember it sorry) ..........I know it was some guy who had this idea to create this documentary and his purpose was NOT to turn down the ideas of Christianity or anything like that it was just to put a different spin on the interpretation of the texts of the days back then.

To me it made good logical sense, more so than the end of the world stuff.

I believe everything has a balance, good bad, heaven hell, male female, you cannot have one without the other. I also believe in cycles.

The history of the earth has shown many different cycles, some of its inhabitants could not survive, others thrived and new species have come along and evolved .... and in some really remote parts of the Congo (I believe) there are still new species of birds/animals being discovered. Even life as we know it has been changed this year with bugs or bacteria found living and thriving under an arsenic lake.

What all my babble is coming to is we really do not know enough about our mother earth, her moods and ever changing face.

Maybe Armageddon is real, I don't know, maybe its just the end of life as we know it. Lets face it, many peoples lives as they have known it has changed forever as a result of the natural disasters.



If it is real ...... man am I going to burn!!

[Indadhanu]

What do I think about the end of the world.

I believe it is inevitable, the Earth will be literally be destroyed, as the Buddha taught in his "Sermon of the Seven Suns". It is the cycle of life everyone keeps banging on about when people die and then people are conceived or born. Birth, life, death. But the rebirth. Life will cease to exist because by fires and droughts and other heat-related disasters. And then one after another suns will appear and eventually burn up what we know now as the Earth.
That's the Buddhist idea of the end of the world, but it is said to happen over a few hundred thousand years.
But as things end, new things begin, so another world, another planet, probably totally unlike what we know now, will be created and 'life' will begin again.

This doesn't scare me because the base of my beliefs are on rebirth, so being born into new worlds and realms are part of the cycle. Things change, things are created, things 'exist' for a period of time, and then they cease to exist, and then something new exists in it's place. Either a replacement or something completely new. Cycle of life. The ultimate end of the cycle is enlightenment, otherwise this cycle of birth and death will keep going round with you just riding it and experiencing it, however good or bad it is.


Do I think that this is the beginning of the end of the world? Maybe. But then it's all perspective. The beginning of something is still the beginning of the end of something. Eventually. The world is closer to ending than it was yesterday. It is closer to ending than the day it was created.

[AliBaby]

I am not sure what I think right now but one thing I do know is that Qld really could have used a big Ark over the last couple of weeks!

[Jakabella]

Im not religious (so I hope that you dont mind me posting!) but the man who was taking my blood today was and he was telling me about the bible and how it predicts floods, earthquakes, and fires and so on (sorry if I have that wrong just going by what he was saying) and he was saying that it may not lead to the end of the world but it is pulling human kind into line a bit... like showing people who is boss - does that make sense?

(sorry again not religious but find what the bible says about natural disasters interesting - dont by ay means want to offend anyone!)

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Keike, I don't want to be a smart bum either no hell? does that mean everyone gets into heaven? I am just curious is all not wanting to start a debate or anything.

LOL, it doesn't matter if anyone IS being a smartybum, I'm gonna play dumb and answer anyway

Nope NaeNae, no Hell. We also don't believe everyone goes to Heaven, only 144,000 go, to 'serve as kings and priests' as it says in Revelation. If you look at the original Hebrew texts referring to Sheol and Hades, they both just mean the common grave. And then in Ecclesiastes it says that 'the dead are conscious of nothing at all'. I'm happy to talk about this further, but probably not in this thread, don't wanna scare others off.

Just to clarify, when I refer to Armageddon I don't believe the planet is going to be destroyed; rather, this system is going to be destroyed. For us that means no religions, no governments etc. Again, happy to discuss further but this is a general thread, an in depth discussion about it is probably better suited to the Christianity section

So interesting reading everyones takes!

[Glamourcide]

Nope NaeNae, no Hell. We also don't believe everyone goes to Heaven, only 144,000 go, to 'serve as kings and priests' as it says in Revelation.

Okay, also not trying to be smart about it at all, genuine question - there's a lot more than 144,000 JW's in the world, right? So what becomes of the rest of you that have followed all the rules and done the right thing by yourselves and by God? Doesn't that scare you to think you might not make the cut? I mean, speaking from the perspective here of an agnostic who *wants* to believe in Heaven and *wants* to believe that it's achievable... the thought that I might do all the 'right' things and then still not be 'good enough' is a scary thought to me!

[Inanna]

I've wondered about your question too Donna & I love it when Keike answers these questions - it helps me to learn and understand so thankyou Keike..

I don't believe this is punishment or being pulled into line or any of those things. I believe it's the cycle of life. It's always happened and will always continue to happen.
I read what I am going to copy and paste below today and for me this sums up precisely how I feel about the current events...


Birthing Woman. Waters break, gushing everywhere. Mess. Pain. Transition sets in. Out of control. Panic. Will I survive? Howling agony, please let this be over. The birth. Joy above joys. Relief! Time to clean up. Celebrate. Could it be the Mother is birthing? They called the Lockyear Valley flood an inland tsunami. ...It feels like She is birthing and we are her midwives, whispering support, offering love and tender care. The birth was tough. And now the clean up. What is she birthing? Perhaps deeper heart connection between human beings, an opportunity to rebuild with 'environmentally friendly' as the key word, different approaches to building and farming. A clean start. We will gain more understanding as time passes what the bigger picture is. Meantime, for those caught in Her wake, those affected by her labour, we offer our tears. She is not revengeful, mean or unjust, just when we stand in her path we become part of Her journey.

[Glamourcide]

Wow Inanna, that's really beautiful! What a truly gorgeous analogy that is... Mother Nature at her most primal.
I agree, I love asking Keike these faith-related questions as she's so knowledgeable and always happy to help share with us - thanks Keike!

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Okay, also not trying to be smart about it at all, genuine question - there's a lot more than 144,000 JW's in the world, right? So what becomes of the rest of you that have followed all the rules and done the right thing by yourselves and by God? Doesn't that scare you to think you might not make the cut? I mean, speaking from the perspective here of an agnostic who *wants* to believe in Heaven and *wants* to believe that it's achievable... the thought that I might do all the 'right' things and then still not be 'good enough' is a scary thought to me!

Yep, I think the most recent number is close to 8 million. Those of us who don't have a heavenly hope will live on the restored Earth, working towards perfection over a period 1000 years. We actually know if we have an earthly or a heavenly hope - I have an earthly hope. When I think of what we call the New System, all of my daydreams are living on the earth and restoring the earth to perfection. When someone with the heavenly hope thinks of the New System, I guess they think of being in Heaven. I don't really know, because I'm not one But I know a few people who are, they're older men and women, and they say when they read the Bible it's not the same way we read it, it's more personal, like reading a note from your spouse.

Tangent - I think it's fabulous that we have 144,000, because they come from all walks of life and all generations since Jesus. Jehovah is all knowing and all seeing, but He hasn't lived on Earth. Jesus DID live on Earth, but only as a perfect man, for 33 years. Whereas by taking people from different times and walks of life, I know that Jehovah really understands what I'm going through, because no doubt someone up there has been through something similar.

I've wondered about your question too Donna & I love it when Keike answers these questions - it helps me to learn and understand so thankyou Keike..

I agree, I love asking Keike these faith-related questions as she's so knowledgeable and always happy to help share with us - thanks Keike!

Wow, shucks I never know if I'm crossing a line and annoying people, thank you for the feedback! And Inanna, that was gorgeous, thank you for sharing

[Inanna]

Keike how do you know if you have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope? Also does your faith teach that only those that are of your particular faith have the hope? x

[misty]

I believe alot of what NaeNae wrote. Particularly regarding cycles and evolution.

Now this part may sound contradictory, but I also beleive in heaven and hell (and purgatory). But I beleive religion and science can work hand in hand, and are not nessecarily in disagreement with each other; it merely depends how you choose to look at it. I do beleive in Armageddon, I just don't beleive this is it. Then again I wouldn't rule it out either, as armageddon to me doesn't need to be read literally and this could be the begining of the end - but how long the end may take (years, decades, centuries, millenia) is still unknown. Personally I think mankind is meant / destined for bigger things yet, and there will be much more to come on this planet and perhaps even on others, before our time is due. I do not think the end of the world will nessecarily mean the end of mankind, nor do I think the end of mankind will nesecarily mean the end of the world.

I am Catholic, and I hold to my catholic beliefs, however I am a bit more liberal in my 'interpretation' of the bible (a book written and interpreted by man is subject to interpretation), so my take on things tend to be a bit more liberal as well.