What do YOU think?

[Glamourcide]

Nope NaeNae, no Hell. We also don't believe everyone goes to Heaven, only 144,000 go, to 'serve as kings and priests' as it says in Revelation.

Okay, also not trying to be smart about it at all, genuine question - there's a lot more than 144,000 JW's in the world, right? So what becomes of the rest of you that have followed all the rules and done the right thing by yourselves and by God? Doesn't that scare you to think you might not make the cut? I mean, speaking from the perspective here of an agnostic who *wants* to believe in Heaven and *wants* to believe that it's achievable... the thought that I might do all the 'right' things and then still not be 'good enough' is a scary thought to me!

[Inanna]

I've wondered about your question too Donna & I love it when Keike answers these questions - it helps me to learn and understand so thankyou Keike..

I don't believe this is punishment or being pulled into line or any of those things. I believe it's the cycle of life. It's always happened and will always continue to happen.
I read what I am going to copy and paste below today and for me this sums up precisely how I feel about the current events...


Birthing Woman. Waters break, gushing everywhere. Mess. Pain. Transition sets in. Out of control. Panic. Will I survive? Howling agony, please let this be over. The birth. Joy above joys. Relief! Time to clean up. Celebrate. Could it be the Mother is birthing? They called the Lockyear Valley flood an inland tsunami. ...It feels like She is birthing and we are her midwives, whispering support, offering love and tender care. The birth was tough. And now the clean up. What is she birthing? Perhaps deeper heart connection between human beings, an opportunity to rebuild with 'environmentally friendly' as the key word, different approaches to building and farming. A clean start. We will gain more understanding as time passes what the bigger picture is. Meantime, for those caught in Her wake, those affected by her labour, we offer our tears. She is not revengeful, mean or unjust, just when we stand in her path we become part of Her journey.

[Glamourcide]

Wow Inanna, that's really beautiful! What a truly gorgeous analogy that is... Mother Nature at her most primal.
I agree, I love asking Keike these faith-related questions as she's so knowledgeable and always happy to help share with us - thanks Keike!

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Okay, also not trying to be smart about it at all, genuine question - there's a lot more than 144,000 JW's in the world, right? So what becomes of the rest of you that have followed all the rules and done the right thing by yourselves and by God? Doesn't that scare you to think you might not make the cut? I mean, speaking from the perspective here of an agnostic who *wants* to believe in Heaven and *wants* to believe that it's achievable... the thought that I might do all the 'right' things and then still not be 'good enough' is a scary thought to me!

Yep, I think the most recent number is close to 8 million. Those of us who don't have a heavenly hope will live on the restored Earth, working towards perfection over a period 1000 years. We actually know if we have an earthly or a heavenly hope - I have an earthly hope. When I think of what we call the New System, all of my daydreams are living on the earth and restoring the earth to perfection. When someone with the heavenly hope thinks of the New System, I guess they think of being in Heaven. I don't really know, because I'm not one But I know a few people who are, they're older men and women, and they say when they read the Bible it's not the same way we read it, it's more personal, like reading a note from your spouse.

Tangent - I think it's fabulous that we have 144,000, because they come from all walks of life and all generations since Jesus. Jehovah is all knowing and all seeing, but He hasn't lived on Earth. Jesus DID live on Earth, but only as a perfect man, for 33 years. Whereas by taking people from different times and walks of life, I know that Jehovah really understands what I'm going through, because no doubt someone up there has been through something similar.

I've wondered about your question too Donna & I love it when Keike answers these questions - it helps me to learn and understand so thankyou Keike..

I agree, I love asking Keike these faith-related questions as she's so knowledgeable and always happy to help share with us - thanks Keike!

Wow, shucks I never know if I'm crossing a line and annoying people, thank you for the feedback! And Inanna, that was gorgeous, thank you for sharing

[Inanna]

Keike how do you know if you have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope? Also does your faith teach that only those that are of your particular faith have the hope? x

[~StarBright~]

I think its natural cycles.....

Alot of people talk about the global warming and how humans are causing it etc, but i tend to think its still the earth recovering from the ice age, and that eventually this cycle will continue and as humans we are just part of it along for the ride. So the earth quakes the floods, the fires are all part of the cycle. I dont tend to see it in religious eyes, although i am sure religions are in their own way trying to explain nature in a human way for us to understand.

I aso like to see the "good" things in humans brought out by disaster, as morbid as that sounds, i think its a good reminder to us about what is important. As so many people said this week... houses, things, personal items can be replaced but people cant. It goes to remind us that love, family, friends are all more important than our telly's and shiny things.

So yeah i think that the Earth and the universe on a whole is constantly changing and the first earthquake could be considered the "begining of the end" or the begining of a new begining.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Keike how do you know if you have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope? Also does your faith teach that only those that are of your particular faith have the hope? x

I can't explain this definitively Inanna. There is no physical mark or characteristic that shows whether a person has a heavenly or an earthly hope; it's more of a mindset or outlook. When I think of living forever, it's on earth. When someone of the heavenly hope thinks of living forever, it's in heaven after they've died. For those of the heavenly hope, yes, my faith teaches that they are only of my faith.

For those living on the earth however, it's a bit more complicated. When it comes to Armageddon, the Bible says that the wicked will be destroyed and Satan will be bound. It also says that each person will be judged by Jehovah on their heart condition. To me this means that it won't be just JW's that live through Armageddon - there will be people that have never been contacted, people that have had horrific experiences with false JW's, people that have been stumbled by one thing or another. Jehovah can see into our hearts, and all he is looking for is people who are teachable, who are willing to learn and believe. By the same token, not everyone who professes to be a JW will live through Armageddon, again because Jehovah can see their hearts and whether they are serving Him out of love or for an ulterior motive. The Bible doesn't say how many people will live through Armageddon, it says 'a great crowd, which no-one was able to number, out of every tribe and nation and tongue'. After Armageddon we will have 1000 years of peace, where Jehovah will help us restore the earth and grow to perfection. During this time, everyone that has ever died will be resurrected, and given the chance to learn about Jehovah with none of the distractions we have in this imperfect world. And then, at the end of 1000 years, Satan will be released for a short time to try and distract us; this is called the Final Test. So then, at that time, no-one can say they never heard about Jehovah, everyone will be fully informed and have had a full chance to get to know and love Jehovah. Those who Satan manages to distract will be destroyed along with Satan, and those who remain faithful will be given the gift of perfect life forever in a Paradise Earth.

It sounds like a fairy story, I know I find it hard to imagine sometimes, because the only frame of reference I have is this imperfect world - how do you judge something against an imperfect example? But it gives me so much hope, and strength to know that THIS isn't it

[NaeNae]

Fascinating Keike, thank you so much.

I always wanted to ask a lot of questions when the JW come knocking, not that it happens so much out here. I am genuinely fascinated by its teachings, not interested in being converted so to speak but just understanding the teachings.

May I ask:

"It also says that each person will be judged by Jehovah on their heart condition"

Is this people who are kind hearted and are spiritual to a sense but not of the JW faith? People who have struggled through horrible events, held a faith of sorts?

Also is the JW bible the same as the other ones? I really don't want to sound rude or crude by the way I ask this, simply lack of a better way of putting it. If its not, when did it come about?

I get so confused by all the christianity stuff

just curious is all