What do YOU think?

[Inanna]

Keike how do you know if you have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope? Also does your faith teach that only those that are of your particular faith have the hope? x

[~StarBright~]

I think its natural cycles.....

Alot of people talk about the global warming and how humans are causing it etc, but i tend to think its still the earth recovering from the ice age, and that eventually this cycle will continue and as humans we are just part of it along for the ride. So the earth quakes the floods, the fires are all part of the cycle. I dont tend to see it in religious eyes, although i am sure religions are in their own way trying to explain nature in a human way for us to understand.

I aso like to see the "good" things in humans brought out by disaster, as morbid as that sounds, i think its a good reminder to us about what is important. As so many people said this week... houses, things, personal items can be replaced but people cant. It goes to remind us that love, family, friends are all more important than our telly's and shiny things.

So yeah i think that the Earth and the universe on a whole is constantly changing and the first earthquake could be considered the "begining of the end" or the begining of a new begining.

[Rowellen]

LOL Rowellen! I don't believe in Hell, so don't worry about it

That's good because I don't believe in hell either. Great thread Keike. It is always interesting to see and learn from others point of view. Inanna - that quote you copied is wonderful. Such a beautiful way of interpreting it.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

Keike how do you know if you have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope? Also does your faith teach that only those that are of your particular faith have the hope? x

I can't explain this definitively Inanna. There is no physical mark or characteristic that shows whether a person has a heavenly or an earthly hope; it's more of a mindset or outlook. When I think of living forever, it's on earth. When someone of the heavenly hope thinks of living forever, it's in heaven after they've died. For those of the heavenly hope, yes, my faith teaches that they are only of my faith.

For those living on the earth however, it's a bit more complicated. When it comes to Armageddon, the Bible says that the wicked will be destroyed and Satan will be bound. It also says that each person will be judged by Jehovah on their heart condition. To me this means that it won't be just JW's that live through Armageddon - there will be people that have never been contacted, people that have had horrific experiences with false JW's, people that have been stumbled by one thing or another. Jehovah can see into our hearts, and all he is looking for is people who are teachable, who are willing to learn and believe. By the same token, not everyone who professes to be a JW will live through Armageddon, again because Jehovah can see their hearts and whether they are serving Him out of love or for an ulterior motive. The Bible doesn't say how many people will live through Armageddon, it says 'a great crowd, which no-one was able to number, out of every tribe and nation and tongue'. After Armageddon we will have 1000 years of peace, where Jehovah will help us restore the earth and grow to perfection. During this time, everyone that has ever died will be resurrected, and given the chance to learn about Jehovah with none of the distractions we have in this imperfect world. And then, at the end of 1000 years, Satan will be released for a short time to try and distract us; this is called the Final Test. So then, at that time, no-one can say they never heard about Jehovah, everyone will be fully informed and have had a full chance to get to know and love Jehovah. Those who Satan manages to distract will be destroyed along with Satan, and those who remain faithful will be given the gift of perfect life forever in a Paradise Earth.

It sounds like a fairy story, I know I find it hard to imagine sometimes, because the only frame of reference I have is this imperfect world - how do you judge something against an imperfect example? But it gives me so much hope, and strength to know that THIS isn't it

[NaeNae]

Fascinating Keike, thank you so much.

I always wanted to ask a lot of questions when the JW come knocking, not that it happens so much out here. I am genuinely fascinated by its teachings, not interested in being converted so to speak but just understanding the teachings.

May I ask:

"It also says that each person will be judged by Jehovah on their heart condition"

Is this people who are kind hearted and are spiritual to a sense but not of the JW faith? People who have struggled through horrible events, held a faith of sorts?

Also is the JW bible the same as the other ones? I really don't want to sound rude or crude by the way I ask this, simply lack of a better way of putting it. If its not, when did it come about?

I get so confused by all the christianity stuff

just curious is all

[Arimeh]

I'd love to know the answers to what Nae said as well. Keike, I think your religion is so interesting!!! And yes, like Nae, I'm not wanting to be converted to it, but I have to say that I'm really enjoying reading your responses about your religion.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

"It also says that each person will be judged by Jehovah on their heart condition"

Is this people who are kind hearted and are spiritual to a sense but not of the JW faith? People who have struggled through horrible events, held a faith of sorts?

I can only tell you definitively what the Bible says, anything else is my interpretation based on what I've read ITMS At the end of the day, Jehovah will protect those He finds worthy, and it will be just.

In the Bible we can read what Jehovah expects of us, which is where JW's come from and the instructions we follow. However, Jehovah understands that we are not perfect and cannot achieve everything set out in the Bible. So, if we have the right heart condition and are trying the best that we can in our personal circumstances, He is happy with that. Sometimes people don't read the Bible because they believe it's not from God, or they stay away from organized religion because they've had horrible experiences. Sometimes our faith is shaken by the people who profess to uphold it. But as far as I understand, if I get to that day, and I can honestly say that I have done what I could for Jehovah, based on my own understanding and meditation of what He wanted, I should be okay. I don't know if I'm making any sense

Also is the JW bible the same as the other ones? I really don't want to sound rude or crude by the way I ask this, simply lack of a better way of putting it. If its not, when did it come about?

Our Bible is the New World Translation. It's slightly different to most generalised Bibles, the biggest difference being the restoration of God's name, Jehovah. Somewhere along the line people decided that God's name was too holy to be spoken, which is not based on the Bible. If you go back to the original scrolls they have the Tetragrammaton, which is the Hebrew characters meaning Yahweh, or Jehovah.

When you look at different Bible translations, there's 3 main types. Interlinear, which has the original language directly translated into the target language. Paraphrase, which is translated into the target language and then rewritten to the author's personal understanding and how they feel it will appeal to their audience. And then there's another type which strikes a balance between the two other types, by conveying the original text message and flavour in a way that is easy to read in the target language - this is how NWT was done.

There's a few reasons it can't be translated word for word in an Interlinear fashion. There are no two languages alike in sentence structure, grammar and vocabulary. An example of this would be in Ephesians 4:14, where Paul uses an ancient Greek expression which is literally translated 'in the (dice) cube of men'. The expression referred to cheating others using dice, and doesn't make any sense when translated directly. So in the NWT it is translated 'the trickery of men' which is clearer. There are also words whose meaning changes depending on the context they're used in. The Hebrew termed generally meaning the human hand can also be translated as openhandedness, control or power, depending on the context. So in the translation of the NWT, the context for each word has been taken into account to convey a clearer message.

Interpretation of the Bible is another topic again. Jehovah's Witnesses, originally called 'Bible Students', came from CT Russell, who felt he couldn't get satisfactory answers from his priest. He decided to study the Bible himself, and compare it to itself to gain a full understanding of its message. Through his study of the Bible he came to understand Bible prophecys, how they worked in the past, which helped him to understand how they would work in the future. At times he was wrong, or he misunderstood the message. For example, he and the rest of the Bible Students came to understand that 1914 was a very significant year, and they believed that they would be taken to Heaven, similar to what some call the Rapture. Obviously that came and went, and they weren't taken to heaven. After looking back at historical events and gaining a greater understanding through God's holy spirit though, they understood that 1914 was the year that Jesus was made King, and banished Satan and his demons from Heaven. If you read secular accounts of 1914, they all say that that's when the world changed; that's when World War 1 started, and the world was never the same. We know that it was because Satan had been thrown to Earth, and the Last Days had begun, so he was now on a time limit.

This is heavy stuff, it took me a few years to understand it and no doubt I will continue to unravel more as I continue to study it LOL Arimeh, it IS interesting! The basic point is, we should be able to firmly back up our beliefs in the Bible. I don't always use scriptures in my posts because I can't remember the exact reference, but if there's anything anyone wants clarified, just ask and I'll look it up

[misty]

Keike - So do you have a new testament and an old testament? I know some christian religions have both, but some only hold to the 'new' testament (ie, from the birth of Jesus); while Juddism holds firmly to the old testament (veiwing Jesus as a minor prophet rather then the son of god). I think that alot of what you have said makes sense to me and isn't in contradiction with my own faith, although there are certainly some aspects with which we hold different interpretations. The (catholic) bible I have been brought up with and studied has been the literal translation, but we were always taught the churches interpretations and translations of specific phrases - which I know occaisionally differ interpretation of meaning to how my DH has been taught in his church (Anglican).

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

The NWT includes both the Hebrew (old testament) and the Greek (new testament) writings

I love your new tagline BTW!

[NaeNae]

Thank you Keike, it really is fascinating.

I often wonder (on a side note) how much of the original texts would have been mistranslated BECAUSE of the language used like your example. I think the first bible was written/published in 15-- something. I often wonder how much of the text has been mis translated or meanings changed due to own interpretation.

thank you again hun, it really is interesting stuff x x