When your beliefs are different to family/friends...

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I should have brought my Bible to work - very little for me to do today! I could have studied more!

I think the main thing that struck me in the article was the laws BEFORE the old covenant and AFTER the new - for example, disobeying God's word was clearly a no-no (see the Fall), killing a no-no (Cain KNEW he wasn't a good boy by killing Abel), meat was clean and unclean, even if Noah didn't know which was which then it would have been explained then or just two lists, those animals to come in twos and those in sevens. Fornication was also wrong (although Lot was just after the old covenant I think... aaaaagh I know he went with Abram, was that when it started, Abram listening to God's word and moving, or was that when Abram became Abraham or was it with Jacob... you know, I need to go back to Genesis and start again I think!).

Then I thought, well, if the early Christians didn't do it, why? Was it just a hang-over of the old laws? After all, Paul said that only eating blood was wrong, nothing else. Was it that it was taken as read it continues and therefore just not mentioned specifically?

The point that Jesus wouldn't waste fish but would do pigs was a good one, but that was before the new covenant because he hadn't been sacrificed for us yet, so therefore invalid IMO.

I'll need to re-review the letters from that article too, but for now I'm finding it hard to avoid piggie things while shopping (poor DH, he hasn't realised yet)! It's everywhere! Which then led me to think that it is wrong because if it were OK then Satan wouldn't be pushing piggie on every single meaty product you can buy - but then I'm a bit paranoid about demons and temptation sometimes. But just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean Satan's not out to get me!

[Heaven]

rofl Ryn! Reading your post was like reading my thoughts. Those are all the things that went through my head when I was reading about it. I just think, like you said, the laws were there since the beginning, Jesus followed them, and so did the early Christians. And if they were to be done away with then wouldn't Jesus have made it really clear in the Bible, rather than open to interpretation? Hmm... it's interesting anyway. And omg I know what you mean about pig!! I didn't realise how much people ate it until I wasn't eating it anymore!!

ETA- see now pigs are evil!!!!

Thankyou for a view from another religion too punkin! I can't even imagine what my family would be like if I changed religions altogether

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Here's a question: I've always thought the old covenant started with Abram - God changed his name to Abraham and told him that his decendants would cover the world and he'd be the father of a new religion. This was re-affirmed with Isaac and Jacob. Then there's the laws given to Moses - some class that as the covenant re-starting. So when did it start?

So confusing!

But as for Lot: Sodom was a bad place, Lot moved there, Abram -> Abraham, Sodom destroyed. So fornication is a Bad Thing still (as if we didn't know that!).

[Bathsheba]

Just on the pig products: DH, the kids and I don't eat mammals but pig seems to be the hardest to avoid I agree. And I'm not easily offended but when people think that they can serve you up something with diced pork in it and think that that's ok even though you tell them you don't eat red meat... well.. that really confuses me!!!

Addressing the broader issue: I'm fascinated by people who struggle with what I choose to believe... even though it has got absolutely nothing to do with them. I don't push my beliefs onto anyone in my life... but I have observed that it's the people that believe in nothing that seem the most determined to change your mind. Interesting.

As I get older I am less antsy about potential conflict about differences in faith. I know that I am a considerate person and that's what counts. If people around me are going to use religion as a reason to get all hot under the collar then that says more about them and their insecurities than anything. Anger is just another manifestation of fear. I'm not responsible for anger in other people... I'm just responsible for treating people with respect and/or avoiding them if they don't treat me with dignity/respect. If I can't avoid them (like you can't always avoid family) then I still treat them with the most basic level of civility and nothing more. I don't believe that you should justify them treating you poorly for treating them poorly IYKWIM 'An eye for an eye' philosophy went out with the Old Testament... I do the New Testament 'turn the other cheek'. Let them treat me like crap... so it will give me the opportunity to take the higher ground and show them up for what they are... disrespectful. It will catch up on them eventually. Being a calm, respectful, genuine, honest and caring person is the best "advertisement" for your faith. If somebodies faith doesn't bring these traits out in them then what does it say about them and what they believe? My faith says to avoid judging others... and at the end of the day that's what I try to uphold. Most importantly I'm not going to get too upset if people don't acknowledge my faith... if Satan is trying to break my soul then he would probably be encouraging me to get all indignant and offended. So... "Meh". If people don't like what I believe then fine... and if they are disrespectful then fine... and if they say hurtful things then fine that shows the world that they are hurtful people (their loss not mine).

I am vigilant about people not sneaking mammal meat into my children's food but at the end of the day what can i do if it occurs? I'll be upset for about 5 minutes, remind myself that it won't infact kill them, then move on because I think that is what God would prefer that i did. Satan would love me to get so outraged and upset that I ended up becoming angry and vindictive... so I'll not do that. It's not worth it. I save my fury for greater crimes.

SJ all i can suggest is that you cultivate inner peace darl. You will always come across the disrespectful. Use it as an opportunity to rise above it. I also find that it's often good to consider why people are the way they are... it might have very little to do with you... they could be in a bad mood for other reasons; poor health, mental illness, who knows what.... and you're the poor unsuspecting person who cops it. Families are tricky because our expectations are higher but at the end of the day the people in families are just as prone to all the trials of everyone else.

Finally... regarding my kids... I'm starting to relax a bit as I see my 13yo DD start to demonstrate that she truly has become the kind of person my faith was hoping her to be. I would have thought by now that she would be making her own choices regarding things like meat consumption but she maintains a strong aversion to mammals (but likes fish, poultry and eggs so she has a healthy level of protein in her diet)... and I have heard her explain to others why she doesn't eat red meat and it now seems to be her own choice just as much as mine. She also has written in her MySpace page that she believes in God so I'm confident that everything else will fall into place I hope I get it just as right with my boys!

[Heaven]

Ryn- Now I'm confused, lol, I have no idea!

Bath-

I have observed that it's the people that believe in nothing that seem the most determined to change your mind

I totally agree! And I don't understand why. They seem to be the most aggressive about it, but what for, it doesn't concern them!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

OK, SaraJane, just thought I'd come back with my thoughts on the whole piggy debate.

Peter had his vision about the clean/unclean bit, which relates to the fact he can go to spread the word to the Gentiles. But didn't he already know this? Jesus told him to go and make disciples of the whole world at the end of Matthew's gospel, that would involve Gentiles too. BUT the main thing about preaching to the Gentiles would be going to their houses and partaking of their hospitality. Gentiles wouldn't be serving kosher food, so therefore the Jewish Christians would be asked to eat food they considered unclean. Therefore the restrictions would have had to be lifted so that the word could be spread.

Secondly, Paul's letters (can't remember which right now!) tell us two things. One is the old laws still in use - not only love God and be excellent to each other (ok, I paraphrased) but no fornication and no misuse of blood. Nothing about clean/unclean. Second thing is that he chastises Peter for pretending he's above the Gentiles and trying to force Gentile Christians into the old laws about food, when it is no longer important. I mean, if you're able to eat food sacrificed to an idol then really nothing is off-limits.

Just my thoughts on this. It's not that important to me as I don't really eat it anyway but I thought it would be best to consider it strongly in case I should be cutting it out of DH's and DS's diets. OK, DS's diet - the power of a wife is amazing but not if she just blanket bans her husband's favourite foods!