Cass - thanks.

Keeliem - thanks for your post it was very informative.
"Did you give him a really big reaction the first time he did it? Maybe now he knows he will get attention for doing it so he does it more, even though the attention is negative." - the first time he did it was in the bath with his brother and yea we did make a big reaction with it.

And i can see what your saying by doing it for attention. Because at the moment he is only being naughty so that is all the attention he is getting.

he doesnt understand things like reward charts. Or even discussions about being good and doing what he is told, we tried to talk to him yesterday afternoon nice and calmly about his actions and he just pulled faces and rolled his eyes. its either he really doesnt understand or he chooses not to when we are talking.

They have a chair that they go to that is for when they are being naughty or just need a time out.

Thanks - untill we can get more help i'll be putting your stragies into place to see if that helps.
You didnt' go over line! and i can see you are obviously very good at your job!!!

lulu - thanks. yup i am...

thanks heaps you girls! i was really worried about the post i wrote was going to get a lot of negative comments telling me how such a bad parent i am an i should be able to control my own kids (thats how i feel at the moment!) so thanks. taking on your advice and we're seeing a gp next week...