Bf's vs solids ratio..... 5 months

[PinkPalace]

HI girls

I havent had access to the net for a few months so i am very excited to be back!
*mwa*

Now Ashley is 5 1/2 months and having 4 bf's (4th hourly - both sides) during the day and solids 1/2hr-1hour after feed roughly like this:

5am BF
9am BF
930-10pm Solids
1pm BF
5pm BF
5.30-6pm Solids

I have introduced her so far on pear, apply, banana, potato, pumpkin, peas, carrott and baby rice/organic ground brown rice (and the rusk sticks to chew on).

NOw the solids is usally about 90-100g prepared at home - a mixture of the above.

I told my local health nurse this and she got very upset at me, said that it is too much for my bub and she should only have 1 -2 teaspoons (the size of her fist) and shouldnt be on 2 x solids /day until 6 months.... AM i really harming her doing this?
SUrely if she eats it she wants it?

Also i have started the past week to give her a dream feed around 9pm as the HN also said she needs to have 5 x BF a day.....

I am very confused and being rural only have 1 health nurse to ask within 300 km.... so any advice would be appreciated!

sorry for the long spiel!!!!

hugs

PM

[Emma1979]

hi there
sounds like u are doing a fabulous job and it seems to be working right? you've got a healthy happy bub? i wouldn't worry too much about what anyone says, even if it is the HN.... I started my girl on solids before 6 months, in fact it was around 4 months, and haven't looked back. I do probably agree with the dream feed though, we have just started this up again recently (dd is 8 months) to ensure she then isn't needing fed in the middle of the night, and so far its working.

sounds like you are going great and if your bubs is happy then i wouldn't doubt your instincts. and you've introduced pretty basic bland foods too. people with alot of allergies etc are more wary about introducing solids early, but if that isn't a concern then i wouldn't change anything.

also my dd would have laughed at eating a few teaspoons of solids, she ate way more than you were 'meant' to start them on right from the start... i probably started her on tablespoons (besides the very first few go's) and now at 8 months she eats quite a bit.... they are all different. she loves food but has never really been into milk, so i cater to that, but i try to give her milk before the food.

[Phteven]

it sounds like your health nurse needs a bit of a lesson in tact.
The current WHO reccomendations are that babies should be breastfed exclusively until 6 months because their gut is still immature and the early introduction of solids can lead to allergy issues later in life.
If you're feeding solids early it might be best to make sure you offer the breast first so that the solid is an extra not the meal. Also maybe hold back on introducing anything new for a month or 2
I'm not sure how many feeds a baby needs in a day at that age. I just popped them on the boob any time they seemed a bit narky in case they were thirsty or hungry. With summer here you might find that your DD will want some extra feeds because she's thirsty.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Hmm, I was told 3 meals with no feeds at that age (just 3 feeds a day and 3 meals seperate of feeds)! As it is, DS still has a feed for most of his lunch.

I can't tell you how much DS took because he'd eat 3 carrot sticks or munch on my apple, how many spoons is that? But by him self-feeding from the start we introduced solids at the pace DS set and due to his unco-ordination at the start he got more milk than if he were spoon-fed. He now eats everything and his co-ordination is very much improved, the HV says he is eating really well and only my mother criticizes what we are doing, but she as no idea what she's talking about.

[paradise lost]

I gave DD solids at 5 months 3 weeks as she was grabby about my fork at mealtimes and i was already giving her formula sometimes (which for me broke the seal on the exclusivity of breastfeeding, iykwim).

Thing is, my HV said if you wean earlier than 6 months you have to go slower. So like at 5 months you might try bubs with a spoonful of something bland and inoffensive once a day, but not increase that much over the next month - maybe offer the same amount more often, but stick to the same few bland foods, but if you begin at 6 months you can add a meal every few days and new foods every week. I was lazy and didn't introduce breakfast until she was about 7 months, because before then i was still BFing and it suited me better to BF her a couple of times than get up a bit earlier or listen to her hungry complaints in the morning. At 7 months i gave up BFing and the hassle of bottles was the same as that of food so by 8 months she was on 3 good meals and 3 bottles a day. I don't know how close to guidelines that is, but it was working for us.

To be honest if your DD is still thriving and you're still offering the breast before feeds so she's getting as much milk as she needs then i wouldn't worry. As for the dream feeds - if she's waking early to eat and you'd like her to sleep longer that's one thing, but waking a sleeping, happy baby because a woman who doesn't have to be there to deal with it told you to feed her more sounds crazy to me!

Bx

[PinkPalace]

Thanks girls

Dachlostar - so do you think i am doing the wrong thing giving her solids at all? I dont know how i can take them away when she loves dipping the spoon in and feeding herself.. I also enjoy the solids and since i introduced them i have gone from having to bf 10 times a day to 5 - she holds out longer (used to be 2 hours) and not demanding so much over night. I honestly have had many a moment where i am over Bf-ing. It is just so draining and this gives me a break.. but do you think i am being neglectful?

and as for allergies and food introduction, i am still unsure because there is a lot of conflicting information and nothing that is concrete enough for me to make a definitive decision about that topic.

Rosehip - did your bub have any problems on the 3 : 3 ratio?

Hoobley - we were the same, dd would open her mouth or grab at the spoon and put it in her mouth, she much prefers to feed herself. Maybe i should just give her a little less and keep the same foods... but for how long? when do i start increasing variety and volume??

The solids are ALWAYS 30mintues (sometimes an hour if i am rushed or out and about) after a feed - they never replace a BF so i guess i wonder it can be bad as she is still having 4 bfeeds a day.

As for the dream feed - i had the same comment but i was guilted into it i guess. I figured i never dream fed her before (but she did have a feed at 3am)... and when i cut out the 3am feed the HN said that she had to still have 5 bf's a day.. so if i cut it out i need to dream feed.....
should i try to give it up.??
will i be denying her of a bf she needs??

rah i think i am going crazy!!

[Catastrophic]

Princess - My advice to you would be do what you feel your child is capable of. . . I felt Izzy was ready for solids at 4 months, she started having baby rice once every couple of days, then it was every day, at 5 months she went to 2 feeds a day introducing vegies - Now at 8 months she is eating everything in sight!
With Breastfeeding - I demand fed with Izzy when she wanted it i gave it to her. She was having dreamfeeds since she came out of the hospital - they stopped around 6 months when i started introducing her to the cup. she started having a cup of formula a day... and is now on 3 solid meals a day plus snacks and 3 cups of formula.
She also has breastmilk if she wants it at night time - but most of the time she just likes to know that it is there, sucks a little then falls asleep. . .

But you might find that my way doesnt work for you, but thats okay - Just do what you feel is right. your way of feeding isn't wrong. its perfectly normal. . . Your doing a Great job

[MantaRay]

PM, just don't forget that the BM is the most important part of her diet until 12months. I would try to introduce solids at a rate which means that the bfs don't drop off too quickly.

[paradise lost]

For volume i'd let her lead. If you let her feed herself she won't take more than she wants. If you spoon feed the urge is to encourage them to take another spoonful which might lead to hear eating more than she wanted to, to please you. The great thing about the way Ryn does it and you do it, letting bubs choose how much to eat, is that if she's had lots of BM and isn't interested she needn't eat and if she's peckish for some solids she can fill her tummy up again. She isn't going to be starving an hour after a boobie feed! She'll only eat what she wants.

For a 5 month old that's actually a very varied diet, so i'd probably keep her on that until she's 6 months - you can mix and match too don't forget (DD LOVED apple, pumpkin and potato mash ). If you're making purees use breastmilk rather than water to make it runnier, that way she's still getting the BM with her tastes of food too.

It is so hard to know how much one's breasts are making so it's hard to know how much milk she is getting just now. She might very well be getting the 900mls of milk an average baby her age would need in 4 feeds rather than 5 or 6. How are her nappies? How is her weight gain? Does she seem satisfied and settled or irritable and lethargic?

Development stages are approximate. The WHO guidelines say that bubs should be BF for the first 6 months, by the end of that time all but a very few babies will have a gut mature enough to handle solids. My DD was grabbing at food at 3 months, but apart from a few accidental sneaky tastes she managed to get i didn't begin her on solids until she was a week shy of six months. I'll never know when exactly her gut was mature enough to cope with food - she was born 11 days after her EDD, maybe she was 11 days ahead, maybe she was a slow developer and was 11 days behind and that's why she cooked a little longer - how can we tell.

As a mother there has to come a time when you trust your gut. If you feel your DD is healthy and happy with your routine and is settled, having 6-8 wet nappies a day, pooping regularly without pain or hassle and is gaining weight and developing appropriately physically and mentally, you have to ask if there is a compelling reason to alter what you've been doing up until now. If you are worrying and think, looking at HER, that she'd benefit from another feed in the evening you should go with your gut and do it. We, us here, your pead, your HV, we can only offer the general guidelines, we don't know your bub. NO ONE knows her like you do hun. Have confidence.

Bx

[PinkPalace]

Thanks HOobley.
i will keep to the tastes we have already introduced for the next month (till 7 months).
She lets me know when she has had enough solids so that isnt a problem.

As for mixing with EBM, i gave that up and use boiled water as she seems to suck me dry and i cant express anything!!! not even enough to fill a 'just in case bottle' to try. maybe 10ml if i am lucky a day.

She is putting on about 400g /month now and has maybe 4-5 wet nappies a day, poos formed stools maybe every 2nd day?

[sangie]

Princess - my DD is 6 months 1 week and our feeding schedule is very similar to yours except that we start at 8am instead of 5am and we are on 5 formula feeds with her last feed being at about 8.30pm.
I agree with everything that Hoobley has said, you know your baby best and do what you think she needs. If she is growing well and is happy then I would just keep going as you are!

I was like you and worried that I was doing the wrong thing by feeding my DD solids (we started about 3 weeks ago on solids). Everybody seems to have an opinion on the topic and won't hesitate to tell you about it!! In the end I just did what I thought my DD needed and now in hindsight I am so glad I did. She was so so ready for solids and now could not imagine not giving it to her. You are doing a great job! Sure the guidelines are there for a reason but in the end I firmly believe that mummy knows best.

Good luck! Isn't starting solids a whole new world!

[PinkPalace]

Thanks lis.
It is a whole new world.

And why it is that there are some people out there (not meaning you girls - you have been very nice) that are hell bent on making you feel incompetent and bad at mothering!!!

I wish dd would go 8pm - 8am no feed! lol
i have tried to drag her 5am to later (was 3 am so that is an improvement i guess) but she is grumpya s until she gets bb's

[sangie]

I know what you mean - this mothering gig is hard enough without people constantly questioning what you are doing!

I agree that 5am is an improvement over 3am! Have you tried a dream feed before you go to bed? That might stretch her a little further?? Just a thought, completely ignore if you have tried that!

[PinkPalace]

lol yeah that is witha dream feed!
feeds 5,9,1,5 and DF about 9pm - she gets to about 4am grizzles but will fall back asleep until 5....

mmm 5am how glorious! lol

Do you have to give them rice? can you just give them fruit and veges if they are still having 5 bf/day?

i feel like she is getting bunged up on the rice and like my other post (which no one will reply to sob)..... she wont take a cup, bottle or sippy cup so h20 is a struggle...

and before anyone asks it is constantly in front of her all day and i offer it all the time and she just wants to chew the spout

[sangie]

whoops sorry didn't realise that was with a dream feed, I should read more carefully lol!!

I don't think you have to give rice, and rice cereal is high in iron so that could be clogging up her bowels. Does she eat pears? They are supposed to be great for bowel movements.

I hope somebody will answer your other post, sorry I have no ideas. DD will take bbs, bottle, cup whatever the little guts that she is. Good luck!

[Feathertop]

Hi PM, please don't feel neglectful. I'm sure you've read and heard as much as possible on the issue of solids and you've made a decision for you and your baby. It doesn't matter if it isn't the same decision other people would make because it is your baby - not theirs. And with the full knowledge about BF and solids, you've made a choice you think is best for you both. Don't feel neglectful or bad in any way. I know you're not meant to start solids until after 6 months but I know two girls who started their babies early as they never seemed full and were very demanding on the breast, and also were very keen around food. They don't seem to have suffered and both mums seem more relaxed now they've made the choice and gone ahead.

And I really sympathise with you on the bottle/cup thing - I can't get my son to take a bottle now either which is a real bummer if I want to go out for any length of time! If I had any great answers I'd certainly fill you in!!!

[kungfubecca]

Hi,

Sorry we are not up to this stage yet but I know all babies are different.

You said you were rural have you tried phoning the maternal and child health line?

It's number is 132229 it says vic on my magnet but I'm sure it's national. You can get a second opinion.

FYI MCHN have to tell you certain things to cover their bums.

[Charlyfrog]

Hey PrincessMya! I asked a similar question in another thread in the Breastfeeding General discussion, called Showing interest at 5 months.....there really is such a wide scope of opinions on this whole topic but it was great to hear such a variety of thoughts.

My first DD was down to 4 feeds at around the 5 month mark but didn't get solids until 6 months. THis time around, I am going to wait til after Christmas (so DD#2 will be almost 7 months) and she has the odd day where she will only have 4 bf's but the majority of the time, she has a 5 feed day.

It really is up to you as the mum after getting all the information possible, only you will make the best decision for your little one and surprise surprise! It will be a different decision to what another mummy has or will make.............and that's ok. You're doing a fab job, don't doubt yourself. Its ok to take a step forward and then back again if you think its not right for your bubby or to take a step forward and then another forward iykwim.

Like Dachlostar said, some people need to learn tact and understand that one way is not the only way.