Christy, I do think children can only behave as well as they are treated. They may not always behave this well, though. Think of it as a child is shown A-grade behaviour. They could, if they wished, score an A for behaviour. They may not but they could. If a child is only shown F grade behaviour then it would be a huge effort for them to even score an E, something the first child could do without even thinking most days. Just because a child scores an E doesn't mean the parents are modelling E-grade behaviour though, but a well behaved child has to have been exposed to good behaviour in the first place. Does that make sense?

We set the standards, our children may not always live up to them but they'll rarely surpass them without help.

I agree with Hoobley. I can cope with some physical stuff from DH: if he were to grab me because I was going to cross the road in front of a car that's fine. If he were to beat me afterwards, not fine. Tell me off, OK; beat me, no. (I have a visual problem that's with my brain and not my eyes; most days I'm fine but others I have little peripheral vision and don't often realise the extent of it until too late.)

DS beats us up far more than we'd ever hit everyone in our whole lives ever! But we're a family of affectionate bum-slappers anyway: if I want one of the boys to hurry up I'll walk past and say "come on" while patting the bum; if DH thinks I'm being silly he'll go for mine. DS went to pat DH's bum the other day so he's thinking we have to stop this!

I do pick and choose which tantrums to ignore. Ones where I won't give him a snack ten minutes before dinner I hold him and talk him through them. Taking him away from activities I do the same. Willful disobedience or hitting me, he can learn that I am not happy with that behaviour. I don't let him scream it out but I don't rush to him to give cuddles if he attacks me.

TBH, we had the "if you do that again you get a smack". Why couldn't we do it again? Because of a smack. Not because the drink/iron was hot, not because the curtains weren't attached to the wall that well so could fall on us, partly because Mum was having a bad day: it doesn't teach you why something is wrong, only that today it is. And smacks, what's the big deal? Never stopped my sister. Anticipation is akin to child torture, IMO: I had this as a child. Get in the car and the telling off began, Mum would wind herself up about something we'd done and forgotten about an hour ago whilst visiting and we'd get a smack once we got in the house. Soon as Mum announced we were leaving anywhere while I was at junior school I got anxious; in fact, I didn't want to visit anyone or leave the house for some time because I was so scared of saying the wrong thing. Which is why I deal with behaviour NOW and not later, even if it means telling DS off in "company".