smoking.. what do you say?

[Fleur]

Ok after reading all your replies I must admit I'm feeling a bit embarrassed over my worries... feeling a bit 'precious'

Considering as I said I used to be a smoker...I was a smoker when I had all the other 3 kids, and yeah they are all fine.

It's just that now I am not a smoker anymore I am soooo aware of it, I am really sensitive to it and I know how it is when someone who has just had one comes & sits next to me. (I am not talking about someone who smokes full stop or had one an hour ago & didn't change their clothes, I am talking about someone who put one out 2 minutes ago).

That said, it has been really interesting to read everyone's replies, and as I said I am feeling like maybe I have been a little precious about the whole thing...I never gave it any thought with the other kids it is only now that things have changed for me that I worry about it.

It's not a contagious disease.
IMO a baby will breathe in just as many toxins driving to the supermarket as it will getting a quick cuddle from a smoker.

that's a really good point...can I say I worry about that too though

[Snowy Love]

I'm going to go against the grain and say I don't see the difference between this and asking someone not to have a hot drink and hold the baby at the same time, or asking everyone to wash their hands before holding the baby. Yes, the hot drink is more dangerous, but your bub, your rules.

[Roryrory]

My take on it - it is something your DH is PARTICULARLY concerned about. He is the dad. He gets a say. If it meant enough for him to quit smoking over it then it must be a very big issue for him. For that reason alone I would say don't allow your friend to hold the bub skin-to-skin. Or find out what your DH is comfortable with it.

To me it is the same as my DH's thing about me not dyeing my hair when pg. I personally don't think it is THAT big a deal but he feels particularly strongly about the risks, however low. So I haven't, and won't, dye my hair when pg (I will look like a complete hag once the bub is due BTW!!)

My reasoning - as mums we have pretty well 99.9% say over what the baby is exposed to in utero. Dads can feel pretty left out so they should have the right to have their strong feelings and wishes respected.

[tellytubby]

RoryRory, thank you! Your post made so much sense to me. I've been trying to tell him that its not that bad but he is sooo particular about this issue. It does mean that much to him, he was smoking 60 cigerattes a day just before bub was born - and he quit because it means so much to him.

Snowy - "your bubs, your rules" very true! When it comes to family, do what you think it right.

I was talking to a group of nonsmoking friends today about this issue (they have babies too), and they were very much in the same boat as me. Most of them said they didn't mind smokers holding bubs, so long as they had clean hands, and a clean shirt on (which was my rule for DD). One good friend mentioned to me the smell of a smoker, and said can you imagine being cuddled by that smell, even if it is just for 10 minutes.

FWIW too, i remember when DD was a baby, all of my smoking friends (i have many, like i said i've got nothing against them) never even asked to take DD, they knew that to us - it wasn't appropriate. I remember being at a bbq, and the lady who owns the house went and had a shower so she was fresh to hold the bub - we let her, and i was so thankful that she understood and respected our views.

I guess i am just worried about this one friend, because we have only known her for a short time, she doesn't know what we were like with DD, so she may be offended. I'm sure it will all work out.

BTW are there any non smokers out there??? I've had heaps of responses from smokers, but what about non smokers? What are your views on this issue??

Again, please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it is simply our personal thoughts and opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, including me and my man

[Freya]

I ditto Snowy on this one. Your bub, your rules. If she doesnt like them well too bad.

I am anti smoking. So is Dh. Prob comes from both our mothers smoking alot when we were kids. I can remember being horrified when my mother told me she smoked while she was preg with all 3 of us kids. So Ive never smoked and neither has DH. We dont really have any friends that smoke so we've never been put in the awkward situation of having to bring up the topic BUT if I were in your position I would just tell her your DH and yourself are particularly wary of smoking and the dangers to babies/kids so you'd prefer it if she would come when she hasnt had a smoke recently and atleast change her clothing to fresh ones. I dont think thats too much to ask. Similar to asking people to NOT come visit if they are sick, to wash their hands etc

Some smokers can smell very strongly of cigarettes even if they havent had one in a few hours and as a non-smoker its not a very nice smell so I can imagine for babies it would be even worse (particularly mine as they have allergies like myself so even the slightest hint of smoke from any source and their nose starts running).

ETA - I take it back, we have had a similar situation with my exhusbands grandmother. She smokes ALOT, I avoided going to her place while I was pregnant ( I have asthma anyway) and when she asked us to take the baby to her after he was born for a visit I went into a panic because not only herself but her house reeks of smoke. Dh just brought it up with her that current research suggests even passive smoking/inhaling smoke residue could be dangerous for babies etc etc so we would prefer to meet her somewhere like a cafe and ask that she not smoke prior to meeting us/change her clothes. She wasnt offended, she totally understood and had a lovely visit with Ds1.

ETA #2 - I understand why someone would be offended if they were given conditions re visiting a baby; but I honestly think when you have a habit that CAN be detrimental to peoples health (enough so that they banned it inside buildings!) then you have to accept that it will happen. Same as I have never left my children with anyone who has had a few drinks (including exDh and he totally understands my concern), I wont care for them if Ive been drinking (so either exDH or myself has to stay sober), never EVER left them with my mother (who is an alcoholic) and would not leave them with someone I was even remotely concerned would be under the influence of any drugs (prescription or otherwise) that would alter their judgement or pose a risk to my childrens health or safety.

[Epacris]

BTW are there any non smokers out there??? I've had heaps of responses from smokers, but what about non smokers? What are your views on this issue??

I'm a non-smoker, I've never smoked, neither has my DH. I talked to my DH about this last night and we wracked our brains - we do not know anyone that smokes. There is no one in our family, extended family or friends that smokes. It's not like we're boring hermits, we're normal people with lots of friends (true ) but we just can't think of ANY that smoke. So we've never come across this issue

I'd certainly hate for smoke to be blown over my baby but if it's just a one off, I really don't think there's any evidence that one incident will do any harm. Likewise, a smoker holding a baby, even if they reek of smoke, if it's not a regular occurrence I don't really think there is anything to worry about (yeah, smokers stink and it's not pleasant but my baby's nappies stink and aren't pleasant either). It's more the long-term constant exposure to toxins that I'd be worried about. So if a smoker has a lot of regular and constant contact with your baby, I'd definitely be wanting them to change clothes/wash etc as often as they possibly can, and of course, not smoke anywhere near your baby.

I thought Rory's comments about respecting your DH's particular sensitivities (however, perhaps... irrational, aren't we all entitled to have a few irrational issues every now and again, and hey, they might not even be that irrational) were also something important to think about too, after all, your baby belongs to both of you.

Oh and an absolutely HUGE congratulations to your DH for quitting! WOW, what an achievement!

[lilima]

I am a non smoker, and honestly it is something that I have never really given much though to. We don't really have any friends that smoke. Only 1 that comes to mind. She has held the baby, but she doesn't ever smell like smoke.
I will ask DH what he thinks and get back to you.

JEBx - ????

[Phteven]

BTW are there any non smokers out there??? I've had heaps of responses from smokers, but what about non smokers? What are your views on this issue??

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I'm a non-smoker lol.
Just so long as they don't smoke near my children smokers are welcome to have a cuddle. Near a newborn I think everyone should wash their hands regardless of whether they smoke or not. I don't think it's comparable to drinking a hot drink because frankly the tea is far more life threatening.
TBH I'm more offended by people who use so much perfume and deodorant that my eyes water. They're probably oozing more chemicals than the world's most addicted smoker lol. I didn't wear perfume while my babies were tiny.

When Yasin was born I used to be really militant about my baby and my rules and having an interfering MIL made me even more militant but now I tend to think that it takes a village to raise a baby and if we want a village we need to show some trust in our fellow villagers.

[MantaRay]

I think Rory makes a great point about the dads.

Having said that though, there is a big difference between a parent smoking around a child, and a smoker holding a baby for a few minutes. Your DH did a great thing by giving up, but a friend who will spend so little time around your baby really doesn't need to give up also. I think if she washes her hands first it's all good. As for not smoking around the baby - well, that's a given and I'm sure that wouldn't be an issue.

I'm a non-smoker also.

[Cally]

I'm a nonsmoker. We really don't have any friends that are smokers so this issue has never really come up. I certainly wouldn't let anyone smoke around DD but wouldn't have a problem with someone holding her for a short time if they were a smoker. Certainly with washed hands though when she was very little.

[sunshine_sieben]

Ok, I haven't read the other replies, but here is my opinion:
I'm an ex-smoker. I quit when I got pregnant with DD.
Of course smoking isn't good for you or anybody around you. BUT, I do believe that this issue gets exaggerated quite a bit. Living near a busy road or near a city is also bad for your health, So are most things we eat and apply to our bodies (ie. creams, deodorants) or surround ourselves with (everything from cleaning products to carpet fibres).
I never had a problem with DH (he still smokes), my mum or my dad (both smokers) or anybody else cuddling my daughter or my son now.
I personally find this holier-than-thou attitude from that MW a bit ridiculous.

However, having said that, it is completely up to you whether or not you want a smoker to hold your baby. It is your right as a mother to make those choices. You have to be prepared that she might be offended. And almost certainly she will think that you are overreacting. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way around that.
But, to keep the uncomfortable-ness (I know, that's not a real word) to a minimum, I would be as straight forward as possible. The more you talk around the issue the more likely she will get offended. Just tell her straight out: "You know, I really like you, you're a great friend. I don't judge you for smoking, this is your choice, but I would rather not have my daughter absorb nicotine from you. So, I hope you're not offended that you might have to wait some time for your cuddles."

And I hope I haven't offended YOU by being so blunt with my opinion.
All the best for the birth of your new bubba!

Sasa

ETA: Not all ex-smokers are extreme. I'm one that is still very tolerant and understanding of smokers. In fact, it really annoys me how our society treats smokers like lepers these days.

[jakodai]

It's just that now I am not a smoker anymore I am soooo aware of it, I am really sensitive to it and I know how it is when someone who has just had one comes & sits next to me. (I am not talking about someone who smokes full stop or had one an hour ago & didn't change their clothes, I am talking about someone who put one out 2 minutes ago).

I completely agree. Both me & the baby's father are non-smokers, and there will be NO smoking around the baby at all. I live with my parents at the moment, both of whom are heavy smokers, and Mum has even stopped smoking in her car now, so she can have the baby seat in her car without it smelling. I know that smoking around the baby isn't going to be a problem.

But, if either of my parents have just had a cigarette and they smell of it, they won't be holding the baby. The way I see it is I wouldn't want to cuddle them (I can't stand the smell of someone who has just had a cigarette - it's the most horrendous smell!), why should I expect my newborn child to cuddle them and get a lung-full of that?

I guess I'm kind of lucky in that my parents know how anal I am with the whole smoking thing, so I think this is probably something that they'd expect from me.

As far no smokers being able to handle the baby at all due to the nicotine being able to transfer to the baby, I've never heard of this at all (not that I'm in a position to know all of this kind of stuff, though) and I have to admit that it kind of got me a bit worried, but the baby & I will only be living at my parents house for a few weeks after he's born, and then my parents (who are really the only smokers I know of) won't be handling him anywhere as much as they would have been, so it's probably not something I should allow myself to get too concerned with.

At the end of the day, this child is your's & your husband's/partner's child, and it's your wishes that have to be met, not friend's & acquaintances. I know it's easier said that done, but at the end of the day if they're not willing to accept your wishes and they're going to make a big deal out of it, how good a friend are they really?

[sirenz]

please dont judge me for doing it, any reformed smoker or smoker will know how hard it is to stop.
anyway off track, ur bubs arent exposed to smoke 24/7 therefore that 'risk' is lower even if ur mum has a cuddle after recently smoking and ontop of that theres all the other risks associated with SIDS that we should and shouldnt do, do u eliminate all the other risks? like it says its a 'risk', we also 'risk'our childrens and our lives when we put them into the car,we put ourselves and our kids at 'risk' when we go out in public and touch things that possibly contain deadly germs.
oh and my first daughter was born 8'2 and im 6'foot tall and my brother is 6'3 lol so didnt stunt our growth! in saying that im fully aware of what smoking can do and i have regular placenta and bubby checks and as soon as my doctor tells me i need to stop i will

I am sorry, but I had to comment on your post. I do NOT understand how you can compare eliminating smoking from your childs life to putting them in the car to avoid the risk of death to your child??

If you take your child in the car and properly restrain them and drive safely and follow all the road rules, then something happening to them is extremely minimal.

If you smoke while pg and once your child is born (even if it is outside and not near them) they are at significantly increased risk of SIDS, cancer, asthma, heart problems, breathing problems and all the other hundreds of dreadful things that can happen from stinky cigarettes.

I am a reformed smoker of 13 years and NO it wasn't hard to give up, that is just an excuse!! I gave up the minute I found out I was pg with ds and have never gone back.

My mum is a smoker and so is my dh. They are not alowed near my ds after smoking. they must shower and change their clothes before going near him.

I am so sorry if I have offended you and I know you said not to judge you, but I can't understand why ppl put their child at risk for their own selfish reason of inhaling toxic smoke!

Anyway, back to the original post. Personally, if that person got offended by being asked not to infect my baby with toxic chemicals from smoking, then I don't want them looking after my baby and they certainly don't deserve my friendship if they don't care enough about my family to not have a smoke for a few hours!!

[skybie]

I am a reformed smoker of 13 years and NO it wasn't hard to give up, that is just an excuse!! I gave up the minute I found out I was pg with ds and have never gone back.


I am so sorry if I have offended you and I know you said not to judge you, but I can't understand why ppl put their child at risk for their own selfish reason of inhaling toxic smoke!

Everyones entitled to their opinion, and mine is as i stated.
i find it interesting that u say giving up smoking is an easy thing, perhaps for u it was and good on u for doing it, but it has been said that quitting smoking can often be harder than giving up heroin, because its so easy to fit into our every day activities, and is so habitual.

my love to a friend from whom im stealing this from-
Making smokers the ultimate villain seems to be fashionable right now. But although I believe it is best not to smoke and not to smoke around children, I also believe that none of us are perfect. It would also be preferable to only eat your own home-grown organic fruit and veg, use only water for cleaning, use solar or wind energy only, use our cars only in emergencies, etc. Let's face it, reality looks a little different to this ideal world.

[helle]

I'm with your DH I'm affraid. IMO, babies aren't easy to bring into this world, and if it is something as little as keeping anything smoke wise away to make a (albeit small) prevention for SIDS, then so be it.

And also, what Roryrory said.

GL xx

[NaeNae]

*nae stands up*

Hello, my name is NaeNae and I am a reformed smoker.... yes and I am a mean, horrible reformed smoker at that !!

I have not got problem with people smoking, its their business, its their lives. BUT I do find the smell of it incredibly offensive, you should have seen the hard time my poor DH got before he quit!!

I will be laying down the law to some of the family members should they wreak of cigarettes and no they will not be holding the baby until they air outside While they will definitely see me as being precious about this I couldn't careless, why should I expose my baby to that horrid stench let alone having transfered on to her clothes.

If people wash their hands and do not wreak I don't have a problem, but if the smell is fresh and all over their clothes I will be saying no cuddles. The smell of it now sends my sinuses crazy so heaven knows how a little bitty baby is affected.

AS I said, when it comes to peoples own habits and it doesn't affect me I really have no issue BUT when it comes to my territory (so to speak) I will defend and offend

TBH some smokers I know really don't think about how their habit affects others not all are conscious of the fact that others find it offensive. My BIL and SIL smoked outside our place at Christmas and I rudely passed a comment about them picking their butts off the ground and handed them a plastic bag so they could throw it in the bin and not on my lawn (YUK).

Anyways - simply ask people to wash their hands please, or just be honest and mention that you find the smell of cigarettes a bit on the nose and could she refrain from smoking before she handles the baby. If she is a "friend" she will not be offended and will respect your wishes.

Best of luck

Nae x x x x

[Bathsheba]

I am a non-smoker. I smoked on a few occasions when I was in my early 20's pre-children but I never got addicted.

I think Rory made an excellent point and suggestion about saying that it's your DH's wishes not to expose your baby to nicotine.

It's a highly sensitive issue no matter how you view it. A lot will depend on your friends maturity. It doesn't matter how tactful you try to be with some people, they will always choose to be offended. I hope your friend takes your suggestions well. I have heard that most smokers want to give up... maybe she will be motivated to give up if she hears about the skin-to-skin absorption?

I'd be gentle, and promote your DH's wishes.... he has done SO well to give up for his child! Goodluck

[Bathsheba]

(double post)