Why does my 2 yo play SO ROUGH with other children?

[Kazbah]

My son is just growing out of this - it does happen!!!

Couple of questions:

* is she talking?
* is she communicating in other ways?
* is there something that she really, really loves?


When Pip got more words, his playing nasty reduced quite significantly.

In the meantime, I worked with the CCC with some strategies. All the children (and Pip) were taught to say "Stop! I don't like it!" and to leave that person alone. It really was something to work with everyone. Also using the Hand (stop) sign to stop the behaviour. That's really worked too.

When he started being obsessed with his Thomas train & track, we thought we'd withhold Thomas if he wasn't good. But attention span of a 2-year old isn't great. So we draw a picture of a train on a whiteboard next to his name, and tell him that if he's a good boy and the train is there when we pick him up, then he gets to play. And the first couple of times we would explain what being "good" was - no biting, hitting or thumping allowed.
After he *wasn't* good a few times, and saw the train being wiped off the board, he learnt the consequence. And it's instant, so it's a cause & effect thing.

I hope some of this helps - it's a horrid thing, and I cried more than a few times, specially when some of the other mums would say "its hard when your child screams cause they get picked on" and studiously ignore me.

Hope it settles soon. Keep to the mantra "this soon will pass"

[Isadora]

WOW thanks everyone for your great responses full of usefull information for me. I've been so down about this all day, I keep thinking somewhere I've gone wrong with her but maybe not. & yes 30 mins is way too long & over the top, & you'd be hard pressed to find a toddler who would stay put that long lol.

Falguni - Your post made me all teary. L & M sound exactly the same. M is also a strong willed little girl like L. Its just their nature & most mums sadly tend to compare her to the more placid children (which is everyone compared to M lol). Its so hard for us as mums & it makes me feel terrible. As for the 'we are going', yes I think that would actually work with M. Sucks though for us, I like getting out & having a chat with other mums, mind you its not so much fun when everyone is looking down on your child & parenting skills.

Rogue - Thanks for your input, I think I could definately get down with her more & model good play. I do show her how to care for her dollies, patting them & kissing & generally being kind etc, but I will make sure I do more.

SB - Thanks for that massive essay you just wrote for me lol. Full of handy information. Thanks so much, I've taken it all in. Yes distraction usually works wonders.

mrsmac - The diet info is interesting, I will look into it.

Christy - Thank you, I will give your ideas a go. I dont think that I really explain it to her well enough, I think its probably alot of my fault so I will work on explaining it to her more & why it hurt etc etc.

Thanks to everyone else, you've made me feel much better & given some great advice. Had such a bad day, I'm so glad to know that I'm not the only mum in this situation.

[luna moth]

Gosh there's some good mummies in here...

We've recently started hitting a pillow or throwing a pillow instead of throwing toys

I was actually coming back to suggest similar ideas. It's really good for kids to have other ways to get out their anger - like dinosaur stomping, or kicking a ball, or pushing swings/toypram, or hammering, or pounding dough (use playdough or bake bread!) At work we actually have a punching bag.
Also, explicit demonstrations for items are good, e.g. "It's not safe to throw trains. Trains belong on the track. Throwing could break the train." For some reason, focusing on breaking toys (rather than hurting self or others) seems to work more. It must be to do with moral devt at that stage. I've never really worked it out though.

[Junglemum]

Maybe it's their star sign MM?? i totally understand, if it's making your playdates not enjoyable then going home is often a better option..... i guess the idea is that you don't have to always go, she'll hopefully stop the behavior when you say it!

A lot of you have reiterated that kids learn from imitating at this age, that's what contributes most to my embarrassment. She is not in child care so people must presume i must tell her to 'go away' but i can tell you i have never said that to her. But i know people think i do.

When i say i am using the avoid approach, that involves me sitting and playing (moderating ) with the kids while the mum's are generally chatting amongst themselves. I don't mind, i would rather that, than she hurt someone. But it's not very relaxing or easy to make friends in a new town when you're hanging with the kids all the time.

Christy i know i have to follow through, and have only said it if i was actually going to, but sometimes i am almost looking for an escape because i am embarrassed!

i think i need to do more of the sitting with the hurt kid thing, give her more an understanding of her actions and their consequences..... thanks for that tip ladies.


Sorry to hijack MM, just want you to know you're not alone!

[Winter]

Snugglybean - I love your response! I tried to give you some rep points but apparently I have to share the love! You must be full of wisdom at the moment that I'm tapping into!

Goodluck with this MM. I see a mum at playgroup with a little boy like this and she tries so hard and models behaviour and I can see that she gets embarrassed but is trying her best to be a good mummy. It must be hard!

I'm saving up all these suggestions as my 5 month old DD is already showing that she has a bit of a temper - comes out when I try to take away her empty butter container in the bath!!

[Liviam]

The girls have given you some great advice. I just want to give you a massive . I know exactly where you are coming from as I have a bully 2 year old DD as well and completely understand how you are feeling. It is so embarrassing and frustrating. Good luck with which ever way you choose to go.

[rustygirl]

do you have Foxtel? Suppernanny is amazing!! I am arming myself with a big wepons ceche for the future if I should have to deal with a similar situation.

[Isadora]

Rustygirl - YES I do have foxtel and I am loving supernanny. Just about to watch a taped episode now. Love her tips she is fantastic.

Falguni - No not at all, I am so happy that I am not the only one, as horrible as that sounds. I know what you mean about feeling embarrassed that people think you must treat L that way at home. I know you are not that kind of person, I'm sure other people who know you in person can see that too. I too definately dont treat M this way at home. I know daycare must have a huge impact on her though. Its so hard as well because I think its sometimes just in their nature, L sounds like M with being a miss independent, no one can help her & everything is 'mine'. So dont worry I know how you feel & I'm glad you spoke up because maybe now we can swap ideas/stories in our belly buddies hehe.

SB - You are a champ, full of beans on this subject arent you?! Thanks so much really appreciate your tips.

Kazbah - She has a few words, but no she isnt really talking, as in stringing together sentences. She also isnt yet able to really tell me how she is feeling/what she needs. I think sometimes this is why she gets frustrated and I am hoping as the language comes it will all get easier. The 2 year old we played with today has very good language skills and she is able to tell her mum what she wants, and due to that she rarely reaches temper tantrum stage iykwim. Bring on the talking!!!!!

Thanks girls for all the support, its so darn hard. I am just saddened that my DD is being labelled the 'bully child' & that people think I cant handle her.

[Rouge]

Falguni, I too only ever make promises I have to keep. And if that means I miss out on coffee with friends so be it. My primary job is to teach my child all that my child needs to learn I come second because this time of learning lasts for such a short time. However if I'm somewhere I can't leave (can't think I've ever been in that position) then I don't make that threat LOL!

[danniellabella]

My DD is getting progressively worse when it comes to her temper tantrums and playing with other children. She pushes, pulls, screams and throws herself dramatically to the floor if a toy she wants another child has. She will sulk around with a sullen face if I tell her off. I have been told this is normal behaviour for a toddler, but is it really? Is it normal for a toddler to hurt other children who are playing nicely? It makes me sad and embarrassed, its to the point where I dread mothers group or going to a friends place, for fear that my DD will turn into the bully child. What can I do, I am seriously at my wits end with her angry behaviour??? HELP

You have just described my 17 month old. I'm going to subscibe to this thread.

[berrme]

Madsmum, I think you are probably right to assume that language has alot to do with the rough play. I am going to guess that your DD is quite advanced with her motor skills too. My DS is very big compared to a lot of other kids his age and is very physically capable so has often prefered to play with the older kids who can communicate better than him. As a result he has wants to show how good he is at other things... like pushing and climbing and jumping. Recently, as he has started to talk more, he has started to play better, especially with girls. Earlier this week I was very pleased to see him just tag a friends daughter while playing chasey, rather than shove her on the ground when her caught her. We are getting there. You will too.

I really would like to think that other mothers haven't labelled your daughter, though it hard not to feel like they have. I can always see the frustration on mum's faces when their child is doing something naughty... i know it isn't what they model at home. Keep your head up!

[Isadora]

Berrme - Thats a good point because yes she does have great motor skills, she is the child climbing all over the play equipment like a little daredevil while the other mums look on in horror lol. I am glad to hear that your DS has improved with language, thats what I'm hoping for too & it makes sense doesnt it? Thanks heaps for your input

Went to toddler gym today and DD played so well with the other children. Had a couple of temper tantrums but nothing that we couldnt get past. I praised & praised her 'nice gentle playing' with her friends. Also this arvo I am planning on doing some role play with the dollies to demo nice play.

[MamaPan]

MM:
1. You are a fabulous mummy. I know this from reading how you are with M and how much you care for her and even the fact you are so concerned about this. Dont ever let something like this make you feel like a bad mum
2. I am sure this is normal - she has excellent gross motor skills and wants to try them out. she cant express herself yet so she is frustrated. she is a toddler... all valid reasons for her to be how she is at the moment
3. I am sure this wont last - it isnt her personality or temperament - it is a stage she is going trhough as she learns - and you are doing a great job at teaching her how to be...
4.Dont feel that others judge you, or dont let them judge you, we all worry about diff things with our kids. For example, Noah is not like this at all - he is v verbal and not v physical. if i was out with you and didnt know you i woudl prob be sitting there wishing N had a bit more oomph to him physically like M. so i;d be so caught up in my own dialogue about my own child to be judging you! and we all have our little 'sensitive points' with our kids if we are honest...

You are a terrific mum - you are aware what you need to work on with her and are doing so! be kind to youself.

ps hope all that made sense! xxx

[Patooties]

Well said pap - i totally agree - she is a great Mummy

[rustygirl]

MM:
1. You are a fabulous mummy. I know this from reading how you are with M and how much you care for her and even the fact you are so concerned about this. Dont ever let something like this make you feel like a bad mum
2. I am sure this is normal - she has excellent gross motor skills and wants to try them out. she cant express herself yet so she is frustrated. she is a toddler... all valid reasons for her to be how she is at the moment
3. I am sure this wont last - it isnt her personality or temperament - it is a stage she is going trhough as she learns - and you are doing a great job at teaching her how to be...
4.Dont feel that others judge you, or dont let them judge you, we all worry about diff things with our kids. For example, Noah is not like this at all - he is v verbal and not v physical. if i was out with you and didnt know you i woudl prob be sitting there wishing N had a bit more oomph to him physically like M. so i;d be so caught up in my own dialogue about my own child to be judging you! and we all have our little 'sensitive points' with our kids if we are honest...

You are a terrific mum - you are aware what you need to work on with her and are doing so! be kind to youself.

ps hope all that made sense! xxx

Couldn't have said it better!!! Well done!
I really agree with "don't let others judge you" After all the only way they CAN judge you is if you let them!!!

[Isadora]

Ohhhh PAP thanks SO MUCH!!! I know what you mean, I've had a whinge to DH on more than a few occassions saying I wish M was more chilled and placid like other children, to which he says the other childs parents are probably wishing their child is more like M. You cant win! They are all so different. Its just hard when other mums dont understand as they are so used to their quieter child iykwim.

Thanks Jazmum, I must say I think you are a great mum too. I love all your pics of the girls, they are always having fun & you look like such a fun mum yourself.

Had a play at the park today & again M was so good with the other kids. I think also it comes down to what mood she's in.

Thanks all for your valuable input!

[Cassius2]

Maybe it's their star sign MM??

ha ha ha! i was thinking similar things LOL! leila has the 'reputation' at MG of being the ring leader... setting all the other kids on a path of bad behaviour. all the other mums think it's funny to say that....i dont. ah well.

leila tends to get into barmy's all the time. she snatches, and yanks and yells, 'no, stop it', or 'go away' etc. it aint pretty but i dunno, fairly lucky that our group is fairly laidback so they dont totally freak out when the kids have a freakout ITMS. my strategies thus far are to either:

A) if it isnt that bad and looks like they can resolve it themselves i leave it to them...sometimes with a quiet 'play nicely' or 'no snatching Leila'. i do this from my seat or wherever i am standing and i try to make eyecontact. this way they can work it out for themselves but know that there is back up if need be ITMS.

B) if it is beyond simple confrontation (ie snatching/physicalisation) then i tend to intervene (if it is my daughter causing the havoc...if it is another child i wait for the other mum to intervene...and if they dont i just quietly remove DD from the situation). usually this means i use distraction by getting down on their level and talking in a calm 'happy' voice to try and find alternative toys to play with.

C) if DD is determined to be forceful and wont listen to me and sees through my distraction i remove her and tell her rather because she wasnt playing nice she can sit on my lap for a bit. sometimes that time on my lap (like even 30 secs) is enough for her to refocus...

some weeks are going to be doozers no matter what. usually when DD is tired or getting unwell...and on those weeks we keep the visit to MG short and sweet. i get bummed that i miss out on the contact, but then again dealing with an angry toddler is far worse imo LOL!...especially when they take to spraying the walls of the cafe with sugar (sorry tom!)

[MamaPan]

great strategies Clare!!!! Both L and M are such gorgeous characters - may not alwaysfeel that way to you guys but I see it from here. YOu are bothbringing up gorgeous girls and doing a fab job of it. xxx