Why not vaccinate?

[Inanna]

As for your sister with Pertussis... My love big hugs - how awful for your family

Nothing can take away the pain of loss like that your family have suffered. I can see why you made the deciison you did to vaccinate your own child.

I do need to say that overwhelmingly if we are talking statistics - babies that die of pertussis are too young for the complete vaccination. The majority of children that die of pertussis do so before the vaccination is completed and therefore they are too young to be covered.
I have nursed 2 babies who have died of pertussis and it is hideous.

[Oorki Galoorki]

dont forget that most babies get whooping cough from adults.. not children

[Inanna]

DM I wasn't forever scared - until I had Immy who of course was at greater risk of contracting any illness.

I was careful though. I didn't take my babies out to big shopping centres, I was careful who handled them etc etc.

I think our society are a little bit lax about caring for children that have illnesses & keeping them from those that may not be sick. For example - people take their kds with colds out - spread those germs to those with low immunity, cancer etc... We live in a society where there is thought to be a "cure" for everything.

Sady a "cold" can kill someone having chemo, a premature baby etc etc ...

I think if we used more energy keeping our kids away from others when they are ill we weould have less contagious illnesses floating about.

[Trillian]

Maz, to me, hep b is not an illness a child should ever normally contract or come in contact with due to its means of being contracted, and if you know your heb B status (which you should as every pregnant woman is tested for it during pregnancy) then a baby should in theory be fine without it, especially considering that the baby isn't going to be sharing needles or having unprotected sex LOL. But I can see why, with what DouDou said as well, it was introduced into the schedule as they were just thinking of the 'what if's' and that you could never be sure of someone's honesty, but is it really something they need at birth? Why not wait till they are older?

DM, there is still always a chance that your newborn could catch it from someone who is unvaccinated before they are old enough to be vaccinated themselves. but that someone could also be a vaccinated person themselves who got a dose of it despite the vaccination. During the last big outbreak of Whooping cough many of those who caught it were fully vaccinated for it. It is a risk you have to take unfortunately - as with any other vaccination and illness as the MMR isn't given till 12 mths and chicken pox not till 18mths. I myself was never vaccinated - as were my siblings mostly due to Mum being slack and just not doing it, not because she had a stance on it. We all had chicken pox, and I had rubella/german measles as well and I still have that immunity now as an adult.

[Kazmar]

After having Lucy, before leaving the hospital they gave me the whooping cough vax. Is that everybodies experience?

[Inanna]

DM they wouldn't have givn your daughter the Pertussis vaccine. It would have been Hep B.
Have a little check in her book -

[Trillian]

It would have been that and the Vitamin K vaccine - again one that is slightly dubious. Or did you mean they gave it to you, you had the vaccination? I never had that but then maybe that's what they are doing now?

[Indadhanu]

Trill and Inanna... I think they now give new parents the whooping cough vaccine/booster? It's free apparently? That may be what DM means?

[Trillian]

Yeah Leash, I think I remember reading something about that a while back in the paper.

[Inanna]

Aaah Qld health have begun to do that I think you're right Leasha...
Most babies who contract Pertussis contract it from their parents or another adult. So this would be why...

[Kazmar]

Yeah ME, I got it Another friging needle, HATE them. My mid wife gave it to me...

[Heaven]

With the ingredients also being found in some foods etc I think there's a big difference between consuming a food and getting the chemical directly injected into your body.

[entreat]

I have been respectful i have not questioned why people have vaxed their children, yet we have a few threads at the moment where those of us who choose not to have been questioned and called bad parents for making OUR choices.

using 'smilies' that roll their eyes & poke out their tongues isn't necessarily helpful to having an adult conversation on a very emotive issue.

Maz- As for ingredients & additives - I eat food every day without knowing what those little codes at the tail end of the ingredients are. Also, much of the food production processes remain a complete mystery to me. One of my biggest mysteries is bleaching of flour. I'm certain that chemicals are used in that to do it, and I'm also sure these chemicals are bad for me. But I have never cooked a cake with unbleached flour, and never will (I'm quite certain - but do use organic where possible). But these chemicals (just read a few pages: azodicarbonamide, Organic peroxides, Calcium peroxide, Nitrogen dioxide, Benzoyl peroxide, & Chlorine dioxide) aren't listed as ingredients because they are only used as processing, and don't form the bulk of the flour. I think you will find that the vaccine ingredients (on bulk - not all) are used in the same way.

Yes - injecting a baby with 0.1-0.5ml of vaccine (per dose) to some sounds harsh, but almost everything you eat in your pregnancy, as long as it enters the blood stream, will be passed through the placenta to your child. That includes traces of the chemicals used in processing that isn't listed on your pre-processed food. You child is already exposed to many of those chemicals through you.

Now I can see the next question - why add more chemicals? Well, this is where that wonderful emotive & extremely personal choice comes in... do you think the risk associated with small amount of chemicals in 0.5ml of vaccine outweighs the risk of disease & debiliation from infection?

Again - your choice. As long as you & your partner are comfortable with it, i expect neither option to be deadly in the short-term.

[maz]

Entreat - OMG now im gonna rethink everythig I put into my mouth but I see what you mean with this, totally get it.

Isnt it a shame how with technology and trying to make things more time effective and better all round, that we are slowly going backwards. Its a shame that basic foods have got bleach in them to make them look more attractive to buy. I wonder if people in 3rd world nations would worry if their flour is bleached or not.

I have to ask then, if a BFing mother isnt immunised how effective is her immune system that she is then passing on to her child?

[entreat]

Maz - yep... this is my point. Once you see what we have been subjecting ourselves to (and our children), I begin to think I shoud learn to garden & eat soley out of that... I didn't even go into the chemicals in packaging... eek! But then I tell myself to get real. even my basil looks sick, what chance do I have for a family-sustaining garden!? in the desert no less...

[Lulu]

This is part of an email I sent to MIL a little while ago - I think it was after the famous Channel 7 "report" earlier in the year.


"Measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis B, and the whole panoply of childhood diseases are a far less serious threat than having a large fraction (say 10%) of a generation afflicted with learning disability and/or uncontrollable aggressive behaviour because of an impassioned crusade for universal vaccination.......Public policy regarding vaccines is fundamentally flawed. It is permeated by conflicts of interest. It is based on poor scientific methodology (including studies that are too small, too short, and too limited in populations represented), which is, moreover, insulated from independent criticism. The evidence is far too poor to warrant overriding the independent judgements of patients, parents, and attending physicians, even if this were ethically or legally acceptable." --Association Of American Physicians & Surgeons

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good." - Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)

"Among school age children, (measles) outbreaks have occurred in schools with vaccination levels of greater than 98%. These outbreaks have occurred in all parts of the country, including areas that had not reported measles for years." -Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 29/12/1989.

On Whooping Cough –
"Dutch scientists are struggling to identify the exact cause of an epidemic of whooping cough that has swept throughout the country despite vaccination rates as high as 96%. Similar problems are also being reported from Norway and Denmark." -British Medical Journal, 1998.
"Only after realising that routine immunisations were dangerous did I achieve a substantial drop in infant death rates. The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine... it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage. In susceptible infants, it knocks their immune systems about, leading to irreparable brain damage, or severe attacks or even deaths from diseases like pneumonia or gastro-enteritis and so on." --Dr. Kalokerinos, M.D.

Now Japan has changed their vaccination policy, they don’t start until children are 2 years old and the death rate dropped considerably. According to Australia’s immunization schedule, babies are pumped with no less than 21 vaccs (and all the considerable CRAP they contain) by the age of 6 months. It’s far too much for a tiny body to handle. When you contract a disease normally, it is filtered through your nose/lungs to a point and your body gets a warning and a chance to prepare for what’s to come. Injecting live and killed viruses directly into the bloodstream just cannot be the answer.

This bothers me –

"Autism may be a disorder linked to the disruption of the G-alpha protein, affecting retinoid receptors in the brain. A study of sixty autistic children suggests that autism may be caused by inserting a G-alpha protein defect, the pertussis toxin found in the D.P.T. vaccine, into genetically at-risk children." --Mary N. Megson, M.D.

And this

"Every day new parents are ringing us. They all have the same tragic story. Healthy baby, child, teenager, usually a boy, given the DPT (diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus) or DT (diphtheria and tetanus), MMR or MMR booster followed by a sudden fall or slow, but steady decline into autism or other spectrums disorder."--The Hope Project (Ireland)


xoxoxo

[entreat]

I'm biting my tongue on that. channel 7...

[Inanna]

It is irrelevant what channel it's on Entreat - it's the quotations that are important.

These people are not ill educated - they like thousands of others have a story to tell. I have learnt never to be so sure of myself or an opinion that I am smug. For therein lies a danger that we don't open to the possibility that there maybe something that we don't know or that we can learn...