Why not vaccinate?

[Janie]

I am yet to come across a GP who is not wildy pro-vax, but I'll take your word for it Anna that there are some who aren't. Going to talk to your GP about vaccs is a lovely idea in theory......but the view is very one-sided, and often sponsored by pharmceutical companies (not saying that all HCPs fall for that ), and kick backs from the government for fulling vaccinating children. Oh, and vaccs at the GP should be bulk billed, so should not cost anything, like if the council does it....so I don't think that's the reason for people utilising the cattle-call system over going to their GP (I have no idea why this is the case).

I have worked in dental health for 12 years, the only contagious disease they really worry about for workers is Hep B (well, Hep C too, but there is no vacc for that one). All of my employers have asked casually if I have been vacced (it is not a requirement, simply a recommendation in my field)........after multiple attempts, and nil sero conversion, I gave up.

DM, we partially/delay vacc. I too feel very conflicted by this, but less so than if we fully vacced our DS (I think ). We will reassess the situation as we go, and DS will probably receive the MMR at 3 or 4, I'm not sure yet. I didn't want to want give him the Hep B shots, certainly not at birth anyhow, but the hospital scared the beejeesus out of DH, and I consented. I firmly believe that my babies are not in a risk group of contracting Hep B. Yes, DS had surgery at 8 weeks.........but does anyone really think he would have been fully protected against the disease at that age????? I really doubt he was, so the vaccine gave me no reassurance. We are yet to have the discussion, but I will be bringing it up with DH again for this baby.

As for my reasons for delaying/partially vaccing........most of them I feel are too personal to share on an online forum, but I do have concerns. If you would like more info DM, please feel free to PM me

[Oorki Galoorki]

yes i went and got our consious (sp) objection signed and the doctor said i was stupid and he wouldnt want his kids to go to school where mine go(that knocks out a 1/4 of all schools in our area)...as well as some other choice words

he did not talk about the vaccinations and the pros and cons he gave me his opinion on MY parenting(this was the first time i met him). I can see why lots of people esp those wanting to partially vax there kids would want to stay away from a doctor.

[~Saram~]

My dr advised us not to get our child vaccinated, or rather his exact words - "I cannot advise you not to vaccinate but if I was in your position I wouldn't be getting my child vaccinated" We have a strong family history of autism and after reveiwing current literature with him in his office and discussing the lack of significant research into the prevalence of children developing autism with a family histroy after being vaccinated he agreed it was a risk he wouldn't take. However he also said we were lucky that the community we live in has a 93% vaccination rate so we could afford to make the decision without too much risk.

We too have a conscientious objection form and we have to agree to take our kids out of school for 2 wks if a vaccinatable (is that even a word) disease breaks out in daycare/school.

Deciding not to vaccinate my DD was one of the hardest decisions I have had to make but I believe it was the right one for my particular family.

There are alternative out there to the standard vax schedule too if that makes you more comfortable, delaying, requesting specific brands or seperate vax, homeopathic vax are all options you can look into. Good luck with your decision

[entreat]

Aside from thinking doctors are on the take from pharmaceutical companies - why not trust a doctor you see regularly?

Saram - I can see why, if your family has a history of autism why the doctor would suggest against it. I would also be erring on the side of caution in that case.

[Arcadia]

Inanna , I think the checking of vaccination of HCP may be a new thing. My sister is a nurse (graduated about 5 years ago) and was required to get all her boosters before employment. She had to get a certificate to say she was up to date *shrug*

I am not sure what is meant by "kick backs" from the govt. There is a pool of money the govt has put aside for vaccinations, to cover the costs. If you go to the MCHN, the council gets it, if you go to the doctor, they get it, because the aim is to make vaccinations available to everyone. Its not like doctors advertise "come get vax" because they want more patients. Doctors are already overloaded, esp in rural areas.

Yes, most doctors are pro-vax. That is what they have been taught in their degree. They wouldn't BE a doctor if they didn't subscribe to the scientific literaure available...which at this stage says vax is the safest option. Doctors are also people though (well most of them lol) and you should be able to have a discussion with them about your own options.

I am sorry if you don't have a regular GP you can trust. I agree it is hard, esp in the city, but they are out there. Perhaps we could also compile a list of GP's who are more open minded?

[Mummato2]

Why is our "community" so sure that it is the only safe way... When others it is thought not so safe until much older?

Because other countries are looking into the links and parental concerns more seriously. In the UK, a split vaccine for MMR was created in response to parents who wanted to split it. The drug company later found this vaccine to not be profitable (now let's just remember that Pharmaceutical companies are businesses that rely on turning profits. They are not there for the good of the community) and this vaccine was removed from production.

Many parents don't ask the questions as it is pedalled as the "right" & "best" thing for our children.

You know when I took Cooper for his 6 week follow up check after he was born, the Dr stood up and starting mucking about with syringes etc. When I asked her what she was doing she said "getting Cooper's vaccinations together"...... "ummm....no, we aren't vaccinating".......she seemed personally offended and when I probed her for stats and facts, she could only spout the benefits and completely failed to mention the risks.....I think that constitutes medical negligence - but then again I have to wonder how many parents have just allowed her to vaccinate without question because Dr's and thought of as all knowing beings - when in fact they are really only fed the benefits.

Further to that, anyone who doesn't think that Dr's get kickbacks for favouring a particular drug or company over another are kidding themselves. There are a number of different pharmaceutical companies all in competition with each other all with different brands of the same drug and then their reps pedal to Dr's and send top specialists on all expenses paid trips etc to continue to back their brand. It is a Corporate Business - don't kid yourself!

I have always said if you want to see the vaccination rate go to 100% - find a way to naturally suspend the vaccine AND offer single vaccines to parents. Do that and sit back to watch what happens.

Another thing that stuck in my head, when we were getting the Conscientious Objector form signed, I brought up the financial motivation to my Dr. He actually said "yes, it's true that pharmaceutical companies benefit from these sales, but imagine how many needles bub would have to have if it were single and staggered - almost one per month".......my response? "that should become the parents choice. When it isn't available, you have just made my choice NOT whether I consent to a single, delayed vax schedule, but whether I do or don't consent to multi vax - which is my specific issue"

All he said to that was "if only it could be that simple"

Why can't it? Why can't it be that bloody simple? How hard is it to give people choices?

[Visitor3]

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[Kazmar]

So basicly if there was a natural/organic/safe way to vax everybody would do so?

I found a lot of you just dont like whats in the vax. So if it were organic/natural ingredients would you then vax?

[Mummato2]

So basicly if there was a natural/organic/safe way to vax everybody would do so?

I found a lot of you just dont like whats in the vax. So if it were organic/natural ingredients would you then vax?

Obviously I can't speak for the masses because there are some that won't introduce the virus into their child's system for medical reasons but for me personally I prefer to single vax on a delayed schedule IF the vaccine could be delivered in a safe non chemical method

[Lulu]

Anna, I did try to discuss risk/benefits of vax/non with 2 separate Drs but they seemed unable to say much past what the leaflets (etc) said. I was pretty dissapointed esp with one of these docs being considered the one to go to for catch ups etc.
I had many questions ready and references to discuss but got nothing.

With the formaldehyde/additives etc - I understand that. I know where it might be, I gas off anything new I buy (furniture etc) outside for days before it comes inside.
There are heaps of chemicals we come into contact with - we have body systems (like skin) to help protect/process it.

I have a problem with injecting it directly into the body of a baby.

There are no safe levels for mercury to be injected into a live body yet it is.

[Trillian]

Yes, I more than likely would start to vaccinate again DM.

ETA - on the subject of GP's, I have always had my childrens' vaccinations done by my local GP. As a family we have only ever seen two GP's and that is only because our first one left the area. Our current GP does not administer the vaccinations himself, his clinic Sister does that, but he comes in and gives them a check up before hand and he double checks that the dose and the numbers are right etc. When I asked him for the CO form to be done he had no problems with it as he knew that I was a 'vaxer' but understood my reasons for not wanting to continue so he was more than satisfied that I knew what I was doing and he was happy to sign it for me with no judgement or intimidation. I did say at the time that I could well catch up with it in the future but for now I wanted to stop.

I am vaccinated for Hep B because I used to work as a Dental Nurse.

[Mummato2]

Anna, I did try to discuss risk/benefits of vax/non with 2 separate Drs but they seemed unable to say much past what the leaflets (etc) said. I was pretty dissapointed esp with one of these docs being considered the one to go to for catch ups etc.
I had many questions ready and references to discuss but got nothing.

With the formaldehyde/additives etc - I understand that. I know where it might be, I gas off anything new I buy (furniture etc) outside for days before it comes inside.
There are heaps of chemicals we come into contact with - we have body systems (like skin) to help protect/process it.

I have a problem with injecting it directly into the body of a baby.

There are no safe levels for mercury to be injected into a live body yet it is.

I was just about to say the same thing.

It's different when it's introduced via environment - your stomach has acids to break it down if ingested, your skin has the ability to act as a filter - but directly injecting it into the bloodstream of a tiny infant is hardly the same

[Visitor3]

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[Trillian]

But the formaldehyde in a banana isn't a man made manufactured version is it? There are many chemcial substances that occur naturally in plants and edible plants, but they are completely different to what you would find in a chemists lab. Not only that prettybutterfly, you completely fail to mention that the 'formaldehyde' in bananas is actually methanol - which later converts to formaldehyde in the body but that humans have enzymes that break it down to be expelled from the body, and also that folic acid in fruits and vegetables protects against methanol toxicity, so mother nature knows what she is doing and to compare fruit with vaccinations is absurd

[Lulu]

Formaldehyde is formaldehyde no matter where it's 'grown' Trill - good points there on the fruits and veg!

PB, it's not just the one thing, it's the many that are in there and injected into the body...of a baby. I think that's a terrible shock to the system and with a boy on the spectrum somewhere I just couldn't take the chance.

However MY decisions won't affect your children any more than a vacc parent. Too many parents send their children to cc and school sick - vacc'd children can still catch CP (etc eg) and it's those with a false sense of security and bugger all understanding of the illnesses that can present just as much danger to your children.
Every single child I know that has had CP in the last 5 years or so was vacc'd against it.

Also - as tenar says, the chances of dying from these diseases is very low. Again, why do it when it's not always effective and not life or death?

I spoke to the Health Department when mine had the mumps. The lady I spoke with commended me on my knowledge of the disease and treatment, incubation times etc. Far more than the actual Dr I took them to...
At least I know what I'm up against and even if they were vaccd would never assume they are invincible because of that.

[Visitor3]

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[Trillian]

And that's all anyone can ever ask of you prettybutterfly.

[Inanna]

Respectfully I disagree Lu... Formaldehyde is a natural gas produced by living cells - however it is different in composition to the manufactured variety.

Also - I don't feed my new born baby bananans only breastmilk so it's not getting formaldehyde in any other form apart from the gaseous emissions from furniture, carpet, paint, pollution, other foods etc etc. Way too much formaldehyde than I am comfortable with... Let alone injecting into her body.

I think of a baby born in perfection - everything (usually) in perfect chemical balance - all the amino acids, gases everything in that body working perfectly. Then bang there is an onslaught of chemicals and additives that trigger an immune response. That to me is massive!

However PB if you choose to eat organic bananans you will not be eating any inorganic formaldehyde. (from bananas!) Bananas being very burdeoned in commercial farming with poisons being laden with formaldehyde are quite a toxic little yellow fruit...

And PB if: "your decision affects my children it's not on"... I wonder if you would feel so bland if the day comes that it is proven there is an issue... I wonder if you would feel so bland if your child had reacted as many of our children have. I wonder if you would make that statement as you held your child convulsing, mouth frothing and eyes rolling back in her head as my child did? Yes, her reaction is not "common" but it was my/her/our experience - an it was really tough.

Be careful about big bold statements as we never know what is around our corners in life. The turns and twists are so that we never really know what is going to be around the corner.

We all make our decisions with the knowledge (and hopefully) instincts that we have at the time. These sometimes change as time, maturity and knowledge grows.

However, my children personally haven't had any of these childhood diseases - that their immunised friends have. It's my experience that the immunised ones are actually more likely to pass it on to the unimmunised ones! Ironic hey? I keep them as free as I can manage of additives such as formaldehyde - which is a known carcinogen I might add! I worry when there is an outbreak - breathe a sigh of relief when it passes with my children untouched...

I haven't got global answers to this issue - however I do have some.

You or anyone else has no right to expect me or anyone else to inject into my childs body a substancde that has huge question marks over it. I have questions, fears and there are flaws to this vaccination and its schedule - from my perspective.

When you choose to immunise you do so because your perspective is different - your knowledge & instincts tell you something different. As I said above its my experience that immunised children seem to "catch" the diseases more readily than the unimunised ones - however I would never dream to tell you that it is you or any other parent that immunises that are putting MY children at risk.

Let's lay off the blame and guilt. It takes a great deal of courage to not immunise when it is pedalled as the only safe way by our health system..