How's this for a woman-friendly Ob... (exaggeration)

[Trish]

Rae, I have to say that I totally agree with you.

I have always had what I knew to be a "different" outlook on birthing compared to most people I know. But through BB I have had the opportunity to be able to share my views with others and am so happy to see that so many other girls are changing around their thinking.

Well, according to this Dr I would be a very stupid girl indeed with my last birth. Points 3,4,5, 6 and 15 all go against me. Throw in the fact that she was a planned homebirth bub and OMG.

How happy am I because of it. I'm esctatic.

There are always going to be people and Dr's out there who have differing opinions to our own. It's up to us as women - and informed ones as that to make wise choices, in both who we choose to be our carers and what form of care we seek.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Colleen, that's the point - his 'views' on waterbirth are not actually medically informed! It's just that waterbirths tend not to require the services of an OB because a woman who has one tends to have armed herself with enough information that she doesn't need one. There are OB's who do waterbirths, but they tend not to need to do anything whilst attending a birth! The latter type of OB doesn't mind, and prefers, not to do much.
Birth is a fuller experience than just 'getting the baby out', but if you want to limit it to just that, then fine. It's just that most women realise it implies more about their existences, their families etc and when it 'goes wrong'...they can be a bit messed up about it. If it were merely a means to an end this wouldn't be the case. Women are taking it back, and OB's like this one don't really like that much...

[Tracey]

When I had family tell me on Sat night they think it's weird that I have invited my Aunt whose memories of childbirth are very very bad & they still upset her... Either born still & whisked away never to be seen again or of both premmies being whisked away & only being allowed to see them 2 days after birth due to her having a hissy fit...

I realised how far we have come
I dont see it as weird, bizarre or strange... I am comfortable with childbirth, I welcome labour pains, contractions & that utterly delightfyl stge when i can push, I enjhoy labour (I know it sound weird) but I have no fear whatsoever about labour, so I personally think it will be great for my aunt to experience & I am thrilled that I can share t with her!

She is excited that she gets to be with us & gets a practise run before her won daughter settles down & has kids as she has memories of labour being fearful & is scared that she wont be a good support person for her daughter!

My Midwives have assured me that I can birth Zyon wherever I choose, they will get in any position they need to when I am ready to push & wont expect me up on a the bed or anything else... I am so excited & looking forward to labour, I actually cant wait...

I must admit I just read what the guy wrote & dismissed it with a grain of salt... Cleraly he & I dont have the smae thoughts, but I dont think any one of us on here would agree entirely with another!

However I think overcoming the fera of labour goes a massive way into having a pleasant birthing experience... But I agree ultimately assist me in birthing a healthy baby & I will be most happy!!!

[Colleen]

My main point was that his views are his and yours are yours.

And not to focus on it too much if it upsets you. Im sure hes not sitting at his computer reading Belly Belly getting all worked up about it because he doesnt agree with other peoples birthing choices.

[Aranah]

I agree with you Tracey, I enjoy labour! (except for the 2nd stage with my first when I had a midwife who was dodge) Every pain is getting you toward meeting that amazing thing that you've grown for ages. I've been told off for being earth motherish saying that labour is enjoyable and exciting and it's good pain, and it's good to read someone else experienced that feeling.

I read what the OB wrote with amusement, it seemed very tongue-in-cheek to me and I haven't met an OB I liked anyway. I only see them out of necessity through being called 'high risk' this pregnancy. Their attitude it not of importance to me, I've rarely met a nice specialist, but I guess I have the alternative of going to the Birth Centre. I'm booked in and so far so good...I'm adamant they arent going to take that away from me this time, PE or not LOL.

I'm just fortunate not to need to see an OB too much and I didn't need to choose one. The public system here , you see them only if necessary, I can't imagine having to see one every AN appointment.

One OB I saw as I had to get the morph scan done this pregnancy was meant to be one of the most skilled in the country. I thougth I was just seeing his radiographer, but I payed him $235 to poke the baby really hard with the probe to make him wake up, tell my children in a not nice way who were playing quietly with tamagotchi's and not uttering a sound to shut up, and have him bark things at me. Not once did he introduce himself or say anything nice. I really feel sorry for women that pay thousands of dollars to see these ones that are skilled, but really are complete a**ses to women.

[Inanna]

If it were an opinion stated as such: "It is my opinion that cord clamping is claptrap and I recognise this flys in the face of WHO". or "it is my opinion that waterbirth is dangerous/unncessary whatever and I realise that my opinion differs from that of studies and common practice in many centres". Then I would just think he was a tosser and not even bother to comment. However he is writing this from a position that some people will look up to. His title infers that he is an expert. My point is that he is arrogantly misrepresenting his opinion as knowledge.

I am very able to face that many women will be informed and still believe that it doesn't matter how a baby is born. I have supported women through births such as that. I understand very well what makes some women choose a medicalised birth. I don't see that that is what this is about. This guy is making statements that are untrue and that is what makes me jump up and down on my swivel chair right now!!!!!!

I see birth as a process - IK said it so beautifully birth to me is a much fuller experience than just getting the baby out.

Anyway I am grateful that I have learned of this Dr's website - the link is being zoomed to some colleagues who I KNOW will be absolutely appalled at the claims this guy is making.

[BellyBelly]

Just thought I would add this as importantly pointed out by a midwife...

"His credentials and his professional ethics and body says he should practice evidence based medicine not operate based on any-one's opinion."

[azima]

I particularly like this comment
I always prefer delivering the baby you want over the delivery you may have preferred.

He should prefer both.

As for those who defend his unnecessarily rude attutude by pointing out it's his opinion... well, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a CP who operates using EVIDENCE BASED CARE not OPINION based care!!!

[Colleen]

but thats whyou just wouldnt go to him. full stop.

Everyone finds the support network THEY are happy with & some people want what he offers

[Smoke Jaguar]

I guess this shows that many women on BB are not the type to just pack up all their power and agency and give it all to this guy and OB's like him
I think that by Kelly posting this, it has served to validate the members of this site who have taken back their own bodies, rejected the heavy medicalisation of birth (because it's mostly not required...that's evidence-based) and had instinct based experiences. People like this remind me why I came to BB, why I felt there had to be a more empowering way to 'do this thing'.
This thread is valuable for BB members to re-evaluate and confirm their beliefs, birthing and parenting goals

[azima]

but thats whyou just wouldnt go to him. full stop.

Everyone finds the support network THEY are happy with & some people want what he offers

Absolutely.

I can imagine him talking like this with his OB mates, but to put it out there as part of his professional presentation is just odd. He sounds like an adolescent! I'd lose all respect for my MW if she carried on like that in a professional context.

[Patooties]

I don't understand how you can gather from his website that he practices heavy medicalisation of birth. He mainly states that he doesn't 'do' waterbirths.
I would say that my Ob is probably similar to the Dr mentioned. I didn't pack up all my power and give it to my ob with the births of my two daughters. Yes, i placed my trust in him, and I felt incredibly empowered because in the end, it was me who gave birth to my children and he assisted in delivering them to me safely.
Just because some of us to choose to go with flow, and let our Obs guide us, does not mean we are weak women who know nothing.

[~kaos~]

No he doesnt have to bag it, but we shouldnt be bagging him either...

He is in a position of authority. He is a professional and the fact that he posted this information on a website means that he has put it in the public domain and therefore should be very open to such criticism.

I'm am also very appalled at his lack of regard for evidence based practice. Informed choice people, not opinions is all I can say. What a shame.....

[~Debbie~]

i half read it thinking it was one of those comedy things - ment to be funny. But, sadly - no.
1 question thou - this bit

10. Hanging up the washing or putting your arms above your head DOES NOT lead to the cord wrapping around the babies neck.

Whats the go - i have never considered that before

[Colleen]

So many choices for birthing out there. Which I believe is a good thing. Choice is good.

Some women want exactly what he offers. Not ALL women NEED to be about the birth to be happy. This doesnt make them any less of a mother or any less abt taking back their bodies OR are they less human because they still give birth in a hospital with pain relief.

I think this comment

I think that by Kelly posting this, it has served to validate the members of this site who have taken back their own bodies, rejected the heavy medicalisation of birth (because it's mostly not required...that's evidence-based) and had instinct based experiences.

Its just a fact of life that some women dont mind HOW the baby comes out - as long as its here and healthy. This guy to a degree is straight to the point and all about the baby getting here with little fuss.

I think its good to see the availability of choice with OBS and MW's. Like Ive said a million times - if you dont like him or his beliefs dont go to him. EASY. and as for him being an influence.... Your instinct will help you there, and surely if your looking around for OBS you will make up your own mind and research your choices before jumping into it.

And if you dont, you would need to at least agree with all his beliefs.

He is some womens choice and I dont think we should be bagging him out - and none of this means i completely agree with him either. I just dont see the point in getting worked up about it.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I see plenty of point! There are many women who don't realise that there is a choice. Some of these will find this guy and he is not about to educate them as to their choices, is he? There are plenty of women who assume that birth is done the way this guy does it, with his attitude, and his attitude to the 'hippy' ways to birth. This is why he is disempowering! There are people, like me, who GET worked up on the behalf of other people. I'm allowed. Regardless of what you think of me getting 'worked up'.
Like I said, this guy is an example of the reason many women come to BB to see if there is another way, and to see if 'another way' is really that 'out there' and as ridiculous as people like the 'good doctor' make it out to be.
You may take it for granted that you have a choice, but I remember many women looking at me wide eyed when I told them (upon being asked) that I did not have an OB...they assumed it was the done thing. They are now far better educated because I talk about the choices available to them, and I normalise them. This doctor does not talk about waterbirth as if it's a normal thing - he says it's putting the child at unnecessary risk. Putting my child in my car is a greater risk than the way I chose to bring him into the world. Drug-free births need to be normalised, rather than depicted as some kind of 'martyrdom'.
You bet I get worked up by people like this! He won't disempower someone like you or me, but he will disempower someone who has been indoctrinated into 'traditional' practices.

[Colleen]

and if you want to get worked up thats fine. But dont let it bug you too much, because he will still exist regardless.

And stress is never something we should create for ourselves.

Hrmm i should have wrote that earlier, thats the point im making.

B456 wrote :

Sounds like my kinda Dr, and and btw I am an eduated, intelligent, informed women who makes choices for herself, but also places trust in the people over seeing my care.

excellently put. I trully did take offence to the comment IK made about taking power etc. Women who have "medical" births are no less empowered than waterbirth women. And for any waterbirth women to think that is "ridiculous".

[Liz]

I can't help thinking he wrote that with a bit of tongue in cheek. He's probably fed up with the generalisations made about OB's and their practices all the time.

Not to say I agree with him tho! I do agree that as a professional he needs to watch how and what he says, because women do put their trust in him.

What it has done for me.. which could be a good thing.. is it's made me want to do more research I'm interested in what he said about the cord blood, because I don't believe he would have just pulled this little piece of information out of his butt! hehe. There is always research on both sides of each coin, and I dont' believe we should always rely only on research that tells us what we want to hear (if that makes sense).

What he said about RLT - my OB said the same thing, but said it also does no harm, so might as well take it in case it really does work! heh

Birth plans - I kinda agree - if you have a massively long birth plan, there is more that can 'go wrong' if you've planned every little detail, altho, dunno if it relates to whether you have a VB at the end of it or not! Plus I've read on here (I think posted by midwives?? can't remember) that it's best to have a concise birthplan anyway, because the carer's won't necessarily read it if it's really long.

I think it's the way he's worded things that is offensive, and I think it's sad that it will add to the 'generalisations' made of OB's.