DS#2 has severe sleep issues - which are sort of getting on top of - but he still wakes every 3-4 hours for a feed. (which is a HUGE improvement BTW)
At sleep school it was recommended that we have a dream feed to prevent him from waking in the early hours of the morning for a feed. Problem is he still wakes up. He is eight months old and a good size/weight and am I assured that he simply does not need feeding every 3-4 hours overnight no matter how hard he protests and he is a very loud protester and can protest for hours so I just end up feeding him anyway - after being worn out trying to resettle!
Should I still persist and hope that it works eventually or give up and go crazy with the sleep deprivation and early night waking?
Dream feeds never worked for us, if it seemed to, it ended up being a fluke. Half the time we ended up waking her up accidentally so it caused more trouble than it was worth.
Hun, Dream feeding did not work for my DS, although I continued to do it for him, he was a pretty constant 4hrly feeder. And I went with the motto that if DS is so loud and protesting, he must want food. So, my DS feed 4 hourly till about 6 months, when he drooped the 3am feed for a couple of nights, then when he woke and cried for a feed, I was able to resettle quickly without offering. Again, when DS just dropped the 11pm feed (at 8 months) he again, slept through it for a few nights, and then when he woke crying I was able to quickly resettle him.
My DS is a very loud protester for food, and has been since birth, so I could tell if I was able to resettle without food or if it had to be offered. And I admit, I sometimes felt like I was cheating by offering food, but I felt that he needed it, so I had to provide. And I hated getting up at 3am for a feed, but it got quite quick, and I could do it almost with my eyes shut...And when he was ready to drop the feeds, he just slept through.
Dunno if that helps you out.... Sorry.... But hang in there, it sounds like you have come a long way, and I am sure you will get through this too. Have you tried reading Elizabeth Pantley No cry sleep solution... it might have some good gentle ways in it to help you . I found it quite useful in getting some good tips for getting my DS to sleep...
Ok... I been thinking about this for a bit... and I wanted to ask you... when you "give in" and feed your DS in the wee hours of the morning, do he drink hungrily? or is he just drinking for comfort and resettling? Cause that might help you work out a strategy for going forward....
As in, if he is just looking for comfort and a help to get back to sleep there are methods you can use to teach him how to do that without the need for a feed, but they are hard work. I weaned my DS from feeding to sleep, and it is hard work, but I think can be done...
No, I haven't read the "No cry sleep solution". I need the no "screaming" sleep solution - this is one VERY ANGRY screaming baby. The nurses at sleep school - said geez "he's loud!" Can you give me any ideas? We pat him on the bottom in the cot, put our hands on him so that he doesn't thrash around too much when he is screaming and trying to settle. Any other ideas?
The paed thinks he has allergy/intolerance issues - so that does seen to play a part too! I are starting to get on top of what he can and can't tolerate and yes - it does affect his behaviour too! I am starting to predict what will set him off.
Feeding - last night - it was just a bit of a comfort feed - he is teething too, which doesn't help. At times, he does have a vigorous feed, so it does vary. Will take note of what he does tonight - that it is sleep.
Hi,
It sounds like you are having a really hard time. Are the only alternatives persisting (it's not sounding like you are actually getting the sleep you need) or going crazy with lack of sleep?
A story from my own experience. My eldest, Zac, was not a sleeper. He was as high needs as they come - never happy unless in my arms or on my boob. We went to sleep school when he was 5 mnths old. I was advised to "persist" at the rocking, rollover feeds etc. I was fairly literal back then- so I never did feed him overnight. But at 10mnths my dh and I were still going in rocking and patting. He religiously woke up every two hours. At 10mnths my ABA group leader kindly pointed out that I was getting really no sleep that way either and had I considered putting him in bed with me. Out of desperation I tried it. It was better - yes, it took some practice, no I didn't always love it, but overall we got more sleep. When his baby brother by and by was born and moved in to the family bed with us, we all co-slept, or I took the baby or toddler to another bed, or my husband took a child to another bed. He stayed up late and I jumped in bed at 8.30 to get some sleep in the early part of the night. We took turns sleeping in on weekends.
Truth be told, my second child, and my first were worse sleepers than my first. but they sure benefitted from the things my firstborn taught me. And when I look back, I don't remember the exhaustion (much...) I remember the cuddles in the morning, the way I could comfort them so easily, the fact that co-sleeping enabled me to breastfeed long term. That boy will be 16 in March - as intelligent, loving, grounded and fabulous a son as a mother could hope to have.
It is hard, really hard when you have a high needs child. He needs you. It is hard to know how he feels inside - allergies can make you feel just "not right" in yourself. He's reaching out to you. But how can you care for yourself so you can care for him? Sleep is part of the answer - and you need to grab as much as you can. But the support of friends, family and other like-minded parents will get you through
Last night it was definitely for comfort - wasn't vigoursly feeding and still screaming to settle even after a feed.
Thanks for your comments Barb - yes, co-sleeping - tried that! Haven't done it in the last few weeks and actually we have had improvement without the co-sleeping. With the co-sleeping he was munching me for hours and hours on end and I wasn't getting much sleep at all - just very light dozy sleep as I was being munched.
His eczema is under control ATM - co-sleeping actually makes it worse because of that lovely body heat. I was reading some information on eczema that I was given at sleep school that co-sleeping is not recommended for eczema babies because they are just so heat senstive. He has always been a hot baby - can't tolerate wearing clothes most of the time and doesn't need jumpers in winter. He seriously runs at a different temp to the rest of us. I can keep him cooler in his own bed much easier because he isn't right up against me!
Anyway, you have given me some hope that maybe one day he will turn into a bright, intelligent, loving teenager like your son. ATM it just doesn't feel like it.
i found with DD it didnt do a thing she would suckle but then would still wake the same time
With DS i would have to turn the lights on completely to wake him enough to feed so dont bother either.
he will go down from 7pm and i would resettle witha dummy until 6am if he woke
If he is sucking for comfort then I really suggest trying to get your hands on that book... I borrowed it from my local library, or I would lend it to you... It has some really great suggestions for helping babies to change their associations, like boob to sleep, and gently working to get through it. In fact if you google it, the website has some excerpts from the book...
No, dummy doesn't work either - he thinks it is something to play with!
Thanks for the book recommendation Rufalina - have googled it and watched the video on YouTube. Will see if my local library has a copy. Too sleep deprived to leave the house today!
Ticklish - we're in a very similar place right now... co-sleeping is working for me at the moment, but my DS doesn't suffer from excema so I can see why you would avoid it. It's not working for DP though, and he wants it to stop. It's just so much easier to re-settle DS when he's close and 9 times out of 10 a feed is what works. It's rarely just a comfort suck. Up until recently DS would sleep in his cot, but has never fallen asleep there. But since our routine was disrupted by holidays, DS screams if I put him anywhere near his cot, even if he's sound asleep. It's amazing.
I've read Elizabeth Pantley's book, and it's certainly been useful in getting the sleep associations changed (sort of, it's a slow process). However, DS is a high-needs kid too, and there is nothing gentle about how he goes to sleep. I have bruises from him kicking me in his continual fight against sleep. I've tried the dream feed as a means of eliminating the early morning feeds, but it hasn't worked often. It possibly would if DS wasn't continually teething (and such a hardcore teether at that!!) for the better part of the last 4 months. I would be interested to know if anyone has any other settling tips for intense babies! I know DS doesn't need the extra feeds (he's big!) but he's so difficult to calm down any other way.
Sorry to hear that things have been tricky for you too! Snap - on the bruises! Maybe we need another thread on dealing with high needs babies.
I am happy to report that things were much gentler last night. He woke for a feed at about 10.30pm. I still didn't want to settle but was more content with me just sitting at the end of his cot as he settled himself and fell asleep - he screamed if I tried to leave the room, but it was just a quiet grizzle if I was there. He then didn't wake until 5am - so I got about 6 hours of sleep!!! Yeah!!!
As for more tips - I might pop back later with some of the tips I was given at sleep school.
Yay for DS letting you get in a decent sleep... Hoping that continues on for you.
Another book I read, which I took a few things from, and I know I will come back to later, is a Dr Sears, "The fussy baby book : parenting your high-need child from birth to age five" ... It had some good things in it about high needs babies, and how to address these needs. (he has a web site too).
rufalina - I've read that one too. It's great! Particularly when I was beginning to wonder if there was something really wrong with us as parents and DS as a baby. The midwife warned me at DS's 6 week check that he was going to be a handful. I wish she'd put me onto that book then, instead of me stumbling upon it so much later when I'm at my wits' end!
Ticklish - 6 hours sleep must have been great for you! Here's hoping it continues for you. I decided last night that I wouldn't bother with the dream feed, and just picked up DS from our bed where he was sleeping and popped him into his cot. He actually stayed asleep, which was amazing, but we had a pretty rotten day yesterday with teething and lots of screaming, and very little napping. He woke and wouldn't resettle in the cot around 1am, but slept thru till 5 in our bed, had a quick feed and slept again till 7.
Today I have reverted back to the settling techniques I used to use when DS was smaller - rocking, carrying him in the sling, singing, but gently insisting that he sleeps when he is tired. It seems like a huge step backwards (and it's hard when he's 10kg to carry him all morning) but he's so much happier and easy-going when he's rested.
A thread for high-needs kids and their parents is a great idea.
NaNa - I was told by a tresillian nurse that "gee your son is intense" when she was out helping me try to get him to sleep during the day... He kicked and thrashed about for her when she tried to wrap him, and chucked a tanty when she put him in the cot (at 3 months old). So, in order to get us to where we are now, one of the things I did for my DS was to recognise that I needed to train him that he needs to have sleeps in the day, I didnt care how I managed to get him to sleep, I just tried to be consistent with timing. I would feed, rock, sing, etc to get him to sleep. Once we had a sleep time established, and he grew to expect it, I then worked on ways to get him to sleep without the need for the rocking, feeding etc. But there are days when I need to wrap him up tightly and rock and pat, but those are getting less and less...
Rufalina and NaNa - our sons sound so similiar - may be it is the star sign they were born under - all Geminis!!!!!
My DS#2 is a thrasher too - at sleep school the nurses were pinning him down (gently!) to the mattress to get him to settle down - I actually found it a bit distressing seeing him pinned down like that!
Wow NaNa - 10kg - he is a big boy! You must be developing some wonderful muscles . Yes, DS#2 is such a different baby when he is rested too - it does make such a difference.
Since sleep school we have had success in having 2 regular day sleeps - the key for me has been going by the clock and not waiting for the tired signs because he is so bright and alert he is really overtired when he shows tired signs. This way we have been starting to get into a routine during the day and it seems his body clock is adjusting and getting used to the regular nap times because he tends to sleep around an hour and a half twice during the day after being up for 3 hours. Yes, rufalina I agree consistency has been the key,
The night times have been slower - plus I am been stressing about this dream feed thing - that wasn't working anyway.
Hope we all get some gentle sleep tonight,
TICKLISH
Oh Rufalina - forgot to say thanks for the Dr Sears book recommendation. Hadn't thought of looking him up. Read one of his books on nighttime parenting when DS#1 wasn't sleeping through - within a week DS#1 started sleeping through. Must have forgotton what I read because DS#1 was sleeping 10 hours at night regularly at this age.
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Do you dream feed? Does it work?
that it is sleep.
. Yes, DS#2 is such a different baby when he is rested too - it does make such a difference.
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