I'm being cruel to her...

[xXHopeXx]

Well that tops it, I know he didn't mean it to be in the way I'm taking it, but i can't help it.

We've been having so much trouble feeding, so we've been expressing and bottle feeding, and still trying every feed on the boob, in hopes she'll get it.
I'm trying at this feed with DD and as usual she's crying and getting upset, and DH says, "this is being so cruel to her!!"
And that's when it hit me, that's how it seems to her, mummies being cruel, she can't get her milk from my booby properly, no matter how hard she tries, why do I keep doing it when I can give her a bottle of my milk expressed instead?

But that just hurts... Reality is a *****... I want to BF my baby so badly and I can't... She cant.. We both can't... and that hurts SO badly because I don't know why when she could so well before for awhile but now can't and everyone is stumped!?

I want the closeness still and the feeling like I can actually do the most important thing right by my baby and feed her naturally from the booby like shes still ASKING for every feed when she roots around for my nipple :'(

It just hurts....

Rant over...

[Barb Glare]

It's normal to want to breastfeed. And it's normal for your baby to want to breastfeed. I am sure there is a story behind your post - do you want to share it with us? She's young yet. In nearly every situation breastfeeding problems can be solved and mothers and babies go on to breastfeed. But it is important you get the right information and support. Have you seen a Lactation Consultant? That is probably the most important thing for you t do

[MrsBexie]

Aww darling!!!
FWIW, I don't think you are being mean to her!!!! You are trying to help and guide her to what is best for her!! Please do not feel bad or guilty for wanting her to BF

I wish I had some super awesome piece of advice that would help you latch her, but all I can say is have you gone to a lactation consultant? Have you called the aba hotline and talked to them about it? Is it possible the fact that the bottle is so much easier for her to get milk out of could be preventing her from latching?

When it comes down to it though, breast milk is the important thing, and if she is still getting that through a bottle or a boob, then you are doing an amazing job!!!
Hang in there, check out the aba hotline and they have a forum too which has aba counselors on it.

you are not a mean mummy!!!!!

Ps and tell your dh you need him to support you, not Make silly comments that upset you!!!!!

[~clover~]

Oh hun. I got very similar comments from my DH.
It took 6 weeks & lots of tears to establish feeding my DS (who was BFed for 23 months!)
And 10 weeks & lots of tears & stress with DD3.

[RhiChiChi]

Awesome! Well done to both of you! I hope your bf journey continues going strong

[onthefly]

Great news!

[willow5]

That's excellent!! You're doing an awesome job

[Babyluv]

Hun,
Early on we had 'so much trouble establishing bf. My dd would scream every time I put her to the breast for quite a few weeks. You're not being mean at all. I can't see your ticker so I don't know how old your bub is but try lots of skin to skin time not only when it's feeding time. what about baby led attachment? Lie with your top off and let bub find the breast. Could it be that by the time you feed her she is so hungry she wants her food then & there & is too upset to focus & attach? This was alot of the issue for my dd, maybe you could try feeding her a little earlier. If it's something to do with letdown maybe you could give her 10-20ml in a bottle & then put her to the breast when she's not so hungry and will be a bit calmer. Are your boobs to full for her to attach? Maybe express a little or soften the aereola between your fingers first. If she's really upset, pick her up give her nice cuddles then try again. Remember to stay calm, babies can sense our tension.
Don't know if any of that helps, just a few of the things we were working through.
Have you seen a lactation consultant?
You can still sort this out, don't give up

[Kmn]

I expressed for 6 weeks until my baby got the hang of actually staying awake long enough to feed! And he's still going now.
Try giving a small amount of EBM so bub isn't starving and then offer the boob. And remember that it is almost impossible to attach a distressed baby, so focus on calming her down first and then try attaching!
Lactation day stays and lactation consultants and the ABA and your MCHN are all there to help too (some MCHNs are much better at breastfeeding help than others though).

[Lily Dust]

Awwww sweetheart, you are having a rough time of it
You are not being cruel to her, you are attempting to provide her with the best thing in the worlds for her...her mummas milk. Including all the vitamins, minerals and antibodies that come with that! FWIW and I know thats not much atm. My DD took 5 months to get the hang of things and she would often scream and fight the booby (hers was tired issue) but what Im saying is 5 months! It felt a life time!!! Your little one will get the hang of this and when she does you will be sooo grateful and thankful for the breastfeeding bond that is developed. It is incredibly hard but worth it in the end. If ebm is working for you atm, go with hun. Its one less stress and just keep offering booby until you get her back on there. She doesnt have silent reflux does she?? I dont know much about it but just a thought.
Have you spoken to the ABA??? If you cant bring yourself to (I couldnt) then get DH or someone else to and relay the message/info.
You are doing so great honey, it will get easier if I can do anything to help you and pm me, I do mean that

[onthefly]

Really your Dh shouldn't have said that. Feeding your baby is not cruel Your baby may be frustrated, but she's not being damaged by being at the breast.
Sometimes it takes time to get it right - DS took 11 weeks to get attachment right so it didn't hurt me. We used shields in the mean time.
Have you seen an LC?

[willow5]

Oh You aren't being mean you're trying to do the best thing for your DD! I agree with the other girls she is still young it's early days. I haven't read your other post I will though. Follow Barb's advice and remember you are doing your very best!!! You can't do better than that!!Hang in there I really hope it works out for you, you're doing a great job!!

[xXHopeXx]

Lilydust - was writing when you replied! what are the symptoms of silent reflux? she doesnt seem to be in any pain at all, as when we've given the bottle it's fine, she has no issues, and when she actually attaches and stays on, no issues.. but who knows? lol..

MadB - i know he shouldn't have said it, but i knew what he meant, he just hates seeing his baby so upset and frustrated and same with myself, he really is pro-breastfeeding lol... but yes, perhaps different wording would have been better


Thank you so so much everyone for your advice so far, and your kind words, it really does mean alot

[xXHopeXx]

Barb - i posted a thread not long ago asking for advice explaining abit more what's going on, HERE is the link for it.

basically in a nutshell, i've been having problems BF'ing since birth. in hospital i had a couple of good feeds, but although she was feeding well, it hurt me like all hell and i ended up with blistered nipples. then she ended up just being terrible and we were trying to feed her via syringe but she hated it, she'd still scream and cry and get a belly full of wind out of it as a result.
so when the midwife came around to our house after being discharged, she suggested trying a nipple shield, as she thought that my flow may be too fast for her to handle, and that seemed to be the case because as soon as we tried the nipple shield, she started feeding like a champ! she'd feed between every 2-4 hours for upto an hour at the most, and then sleep like a champ too
then all of a sudden it changed? she now is really fussy at the breast again! she'll go on, have a couple sucks and swallow, then pull off and cry and whinge, then go on again, and the cycle continues, and she will often be feeding for AT LEAST 1.5 hours, and would easily go past 2 and still be acting as though she hasnt fed. this morning i put her on the boob again after giving her 50ml of EBM in a bottle and she managed to get letdown happening for the first time in a couple days because she was able to suck long enough to get it! but, then she didnt last long on that either, (but then i suspected she was full anyway) but as soon as i took her off when she fell asleep, she woke again, and was acting hungry (sucking the hands, head bobbing, etc) and wouldnt attach again, so, i gave her another 30ml of EBM and that settled her down, but that again took 1.5hrs, and im sure she would have been contented MUCH sooner had i have just given her more EBM in a bottle.

but anyways, that's what's happening with her BF'ing.


Mrs.B - i should clarify that DH is VERY supportive of BF'ing, and even if we do bottle feed with EBM for awhile, his plan is to keep trying to get her to BF, but maybe wait a couple weeks til shes bigger, which will hopefully clarify the problem as most seem to think this is it. he just hates hearing her cry like she does when she's trying to feed, and he hates knowing how stressed i am knowing shes not feeding. but it's just the words hit me that it feels like that's what i'm doing to her..

babyluv - my DD is 2 weeks old, we have tried baby led attachment many times, and she knows what to do, but she just cant attach, she gets herself so frustrated that she just cries and cries and wont get on. she has a very short fuse, i must admit lol. we even tried it with the help of a couple of ABA counsellors, and they were stumped at it too, saying she knows what to do, but just cant get on!
my breasts arent hard any more, not that they ever really got that hard, my milk supply has settled somewhat, though i still have plenty, ironically, it seems she did better when my boobs were harder than now when they're softer! lol
we tried the expressing today, but it was only after we gave her about 50ml and she was still looking around hungry that we thought we'd try it, and though it took about 15 minutes, eventually she got a letdown and sucked for awhile, but that seemed to almost make it worse in regards to her constantly seeming hungry until we gave her another 30ml or so an hour and a half later! but we are thinking we'll try again next feed and just give her about 30ml and see what happens.


KMN - did you bottle feed your bub with the EBM for the first 6 weeks? did you still keep trying to BF? so he's BF'ing now fine? where abouts are you located? i'd love to know some locations of the Lactation Day Stays, we have tresillian at the hospital near us, but no mention of a day stay for lactation, its more for babies with sleeping issues.


As i mentioned earlier, we have seen 2 ABA counsellors, and for the majority they were both stumped. one thought that perhaps my nipple is too short for her to get it to the back of her mouth the stimulate the sucking, hence why she did/does so well with the nipple shield, because it gets to the back of the mouth enough to get that suck happening. other than that, they could only suggest that perhaps her mouth is a little small, so there's an anatomical mismatch there which makes it nearly impossible to feed without a shield for the moment.
We have talked to different ABA counsellors on the phone too, to no avail the suggestions they gave we had already tried bar one which has helped us get her to sleep and know once she's had enough, which was to wrap her and take her off the breast and give her cuddles and what not and if she's still fussy after about 15 minutes, THEN put her back on, but alas, although this works, it drags it out ALOT longer when we are trying to feed solely on the breast.
but we are definitely trying to make sure she's calm (relatively) when feeding, and waking her sooner doesnt work for her, we wake her too early, she simply wont stay awake to feed, wake her at any other time, she still gets frustrated just as quickly as if we let her wake herself for a feed, and she's often still more tired and will start falling asleep quicker. so its a catch 22 there lol.

we are going to try again with the LC's. we contacted one, but she couldn't see us for a couple days, hence why she sent us to a couple of the ABA counsellors instead because she realised we needed to see someone ASAP. and other counsellors we'd tried to contact weren't answering their phones, and we havent heard anything back, and apparently there's only 2 in the local area according to the IBCLC website.. but we'll keep trying to contact them!

[emc2]

Well that tops it, I know he didn't mean it to be in the way I'm taking it, but i can't help it.
I'm trying at this feed with DD and as usual she's crying and getting upset, and DH says, "this is being so cruel to her!!"

This is why I took my disinterested partner to the ABA Breastfeeding class, so this is one thing he is interested in and knows how important breastfeeding is. Only a man would say something like that!!

There's lots of options, we had a Mum speak to us, a very brave woman who was doing part formula and part breastfeeding, we looked at nipple shields and all kinds of things.

[Babyluv]

Hun,
Your bub sounds exactly like my bub at that age. I can honestly say that BF has been the hardest thing out of having a new bub. It's only the last few weeks things have become easier. I too used the shields, my supply dropped and bub never seemed to be getting enough from me' so I was topping up after most feeds. I decided to get rid of the shields & what do you know bub can attach fine now and my supply has increased & she only gets about 40ml of formula at night, sometimes she doesn't need it.
Noone tells you how hard BF is to establish, I just envisioned my bub feeding angelically at the breast but in reality it wasn't like this. I found for my daughter she had to learn what to do. I had to learn & so did she.
Hang in there, offer the boob every feed, like you did today, if she gets a little bit of practice each time she will get the hang of it. Don't give up the first 6 weeks are by far the hardest and by 2 months things will be' so much easier.
Do you try squeezing your boob to make it a bit narrower so that she can get it into her mouth? Maybe she is having trouble getting enough boob in her little mouth.
Perhaps you could try syringing a little ebm into her mouth whilst she is on the boob.
Like my little girl she may just have to learn that she has to suck to get what she wants.
Good luck Hun, you're not alone, it is really tough but you can do it

[xXHopeXx]

Hun,
Your bub sounds exactly like my bub at that age. I can honestly say that BF has been the hardest thing out of having a new bub. It's only the last few weeks things have become easier. I too used the shields, my supply dropped and bub never seemed to be getting enough from me' so I was topping up after most feeds. I decided to get rid of the shields & what do you know bub can attach fine now and my supply has increased & she only gets about 40ml of formula at night, sometimes she doesn't need it.
Noone tells you how hard BF is to establish, I just envisioned my bub feeding angelically at the breast but in reality it wasn't like this. I found for my daughter she had to learn what to do. I had to learn & so did she.
Hang in there, offer the boob every feed, like you did today, if she gets a little bit of practice each time she will get the hang of it. Don't give up the first 6 weeks are by far the hardest and by 2 months things will be' so much easier.
Do you try squeezing your boob to make it a bit narrower so that she can get it into her mouth? Maybe she is having trouble getting enough boob in her little mouth.
Perhaps you could try syringing a little ebm into her mouth whilst she is on the boob.
Like my little girl she may just have to learn that she has to suck to get what she wants.
Good luck Hun, you're not alone, it is really tough but you can do it

when we try without shields we do try to make the boob abit narrower, but doesnt seem to work. hence why we think maybe my boobs are too big? i mean i am around an 18F.
she does have a mean suck on her, and she knows she has to suck to get the milk, because she does try, but we just cant figure out why its not working for her? and thats the frustrating thing, because she DID have it for about a week, then it all of a sudden stopped without any warning or clues?


and the annoying thing is, i cant get into contact with ANY LC's in my area?!! i have tried calling about 10 different people and they all have to leave messages, which we do, and they still havent got back to us from yesterday, and the only one that did is too busy!!

[Kmn]

I'm in Melbourne. The lactation stay I went to was at Jessie Mac, and I also had some help from my local MCHN.
My DS got better at breastfeeding and is now nearly 3 and still feeding.........
For almost all babies attaching gets easier as they grow bigger and less floppy and stronger.
I found that feeding my bub lying down worked better than any other way. I'd lie him on his side on a towel (eventually the MCHN pointed out that propping him half on his side with a pillow made it easier) and lie down beside him. That way I didn't struggle so much with controlling a floppy baby, and a ginormous squirty boob (F here too - it is a worry when your boob is heavier than your baby.....).

Priority one is get the breastmilk into the baby - so if at this stage that means mostly EBM then so be it. But also practise attaching - initially we had one attachment feed a day and slowly increased it. You may well find that it is easier to attach bub when she's not hungry (i.e. use yourself as her "dummy") and when you aren't too full. Even consider expressing, bottle feeding and then attaching!

Just wondering - while she "had the hang of it" were you less full of milk? I really think that expressing and then attaching might be the way to go.