Is it normal for a baby to cry after every breafeed? Should he be on neonate formula?

[Razzberry]

Hi,

I need your help ladies!! I feel like I don't know what "your typical baby is like" since my 2.5year daughter wasn't your typical baby (reflux, screaming, no sleep etc etc). So I don't know how much crying is normal.

My son is almost 6 weeks. He was put on losec at 2 weeks for reflux, he is a massive spewer and I can hear stuff coming up his throat and going down again even when he doesn't spew it out. He screams or cries or whimpers after this happens.
As he has been on the meds for 4 weeks now I would assume they should be working by now.
He doesn't sleep well as the refluxing wakes him up and then I have to try and settle him again.

My daughter was 100 times worse in the screaming and no sleeping department, but she wasn't put on meds till later so maybe this is why my DS seems better than her. She is having an endoscopy done soon as a specialist thinks she had breast milk colitis as a baby and now has allergic esophagitis. So If I had stopped breastfeeding and put her on a special formula such as neonate the pain may have stopped for her. I thought I was doing the best thing by breastfeeding for 6.5months (until she had total breast refusal and lost a lot of weight)

DS also sleeps better at night (easier to settle etc).

I guess this sounds very confusing. I am just feeling extremely guilty that my DD has been in pain for 2.5 years and I don't want this for me son.

If it is my breast milk that is causing his reflux, pain and unsettledness then I will stop and put him on neonate formula, but I don't want to stop breastfeeding unless this is the case.

I am not sure what to do, because I guess there is a big chance he is the same as my DD but maybe he does just have normal reflux that other babies have? Not the insane type my daughter had?

any ideas welcome!!

[Miss E]

Sorry hun, I don't have any advice, just wanted to give you a big

[Barb Glare]

No - he won't be any better on formula. You need to get to the cause of this. and in this day and age this is not as easy as it sounds I know.

If you can work out what is going on you can go onto successfully breastfeed.

Tell me, how often does your baby feed in 24 hours?
How are his weightgains?
What are his wet and dirty nappies like?
Tell me about his birth?
Full term? Early? Late?
Do you have a family history of allergies/
Does anyone in your family have eczema or asthama?
you are sure having a bad time, but it will get better and you don't have to give up breastfeeding

[Razzberry]

He feeds approx 3 hourly, sometimes 2 hourly, and very occasionally 4 hour in the night. At 3 weeks he had put on 500g since he was 1 weeks old, he hasn't been weighed since but is def growing as his clothes are getting tight on him and he is looking chubbier!
Lots of heavily wet nappies, he was pooing a couple times a day up until a week ago, but hasn't done a poo since, i thought he may be blocked up, as very gassy, but even when he was more regular he was exactly the same with screaming and crying!
It was a normal delivery though was induced at 39 weeks as had low fluid around him.
Yes to allergies, I had asthma and eczema, hay fever, hives, my niece (identical twins daughter has egg allergy)

and now my daughter 2.5 years has been told by gastro doc he suspects allergic esophigitis which would have began when i breastfed her.

[onthefly]

Raz, what a tough situation!
There's some sort of underlying problem, I think, and like Barb says, you need to get to the bottom of it, regardless of how you feed.

Given your daughter's condition - caused by allergies, as I understand? - and your family history, it sounds like maybe allergies are the issue here too. In many instances, reflux babies actually have allergies.

You seem distressed about your daughter's condition I suspect you have had many trips to the doctor before now - it must be frustrating that it's taken so long to get a diagnosis.
Although things passing through from your milk may have caused some problems for your daughter, continuing to breastfeed her for as long as you did was still good - there is so much in breast milk that she would not have gotten elsewhere, including factors that help protect against allergies.

[Razzberry]

Thanks,

I am just feeling so super guilty right now about my daughter and its making me feel very anxious about my son. I persisted and persisted with breastfeeding my DD even when she would be screaming and pulling off me and I would be in tears every time I fed her, and this went on for months and months. Everyone was telling me to stop feeding her, but they didn't understand the emotions behind feeding her! I ended up with PND and had lots of counselling to help me come to the decision to stop feeding her at 6.5 months.

I told myself I wasn't going to let myself get so emotionally tied to breastfeeding again - but I have!

I see the paediatrician again this week, so will talk to him, though I feel like most doctors aren't breastfeeding friendly, so don't know about him!

[Miss E]

I see the paediatrician again this week, so will talk to him, though I feel like most doctors aren't breastfeeding friendly, so don't know about him!

Just a thought hun, have you tried contacting the ABA or seeking out a lactation consultant who has experience in this area? Just thinking they may be able to offer a more holistic approach in conjunction with the docs.

[onthefly]

I think getting medical advice - and 2nd and 3rd opinions even - is a good place to start.

With your daughter, was it actually the breastmilk that was the problem? or proteins passing through from your diet that she has issues with?

At least this time you're ahead of the game Breastfeeding is important to you, and that's really only natural. I hope you can get help to keep feeding as you'd like to

ETA - there is an LC in Perth who also does phone counselling I think who is a specialist in feeding with allergies etc

[LuluHB]

I'm going to go against the flow and say formula may make him feel better. My DD1 was breastfed until 13 weeks because that's what everybody I consulted told me I should do with her, despite the enormous pain she was in with no meds helping, changes in my diet etc helping. Unlike what you have obviously found, my experience was a constant brick wall of objection any time I suggested trying her on formula - and that came from paeds, GPs and the health nurse. In pure desperation I tried her on specific formula at 13 weeks after it being suggested to me and within two days I had a baby who fed without screaming, who wasn't almost constantly rigid, who could actually lie down and sleep and who began to smile and laugh as opposed to my poor baby who screamed literally 20 hours per day. Like you have said, I have enormous guilt that I didn't trust my own instincts and switch her to formula earlier and save her weeks of pain. Nobody will ever be able to convince me that my baby received more benefit being on the breast and in constant pain for those first three months than had she been pain free and on formula.

DD2 seemed to have the same issues, although not as severe, as DD1 and so I attempted to switch her too but the stubborn little miss flat out refused a bottle. It wasn't until she was 5 months that she was switched to formula with some improvement. She has other medical issues and now I can look back and say that I should perhaps have investigated further with her to see if she did in fact have the same issues as her sister before switching her. I have no guilt for switching her though - it was an extremely tough and she was on the breast for up to an hour per feed, and feeding two hourly 24 hours a day, which was adding enormously to my PND.

This time around I am desperately hoping that my baby is able to breastfeed. I do believe that for MOST babies, breast is best. I have, however, seen with my own child that breast is for some babies not the best thing, and so while I won't race to throw a bottle at my new baby at the first sign of distress, I will investigate far more fully what is going on.

[Razzberry]

MadB: I was told it was probably a milk protein allergy.
I did cut dairy out of my diet but it made no change to her 24 hour screamathons!
I think i will try and get a few opinions, thanks for your support, i think being so tired isn't helping me to think very clearly either.

LuluHB: Thanks so much for sharing! i feel the same about continuing to feed my DS, i want to do it, but at the same time am terrified he will just continue to get worse like my dd. I am so glad that u found such a difference, nice to know someone understands where i am coming from

[Catherine]

it can take a couple of weeks for milk protein to leave your system.

you may find this link helpful:http://www.bfmed.org/Media/Files/Pro...ish_120211.pdf This was spoken about at the ABA health professional seminars. The speaker mentioned elimination diet for mother, and a special enzyme pill to help breakdown proteins.

i hope you find a solution both you and bub are happy with, you are wonderful for investigating it. xo

[Barb Glare]

Hi,

Your history tells the story. You have an allergic family history and (I know from personal as well as professional experience) that having children with allergies is a very tough gig. Made more so because so few people understand what you are going through and you get so much conflicting advice.
I always say to mums n this situation that it's like tipping a 5000 piece jigsaw on the floor and trying to put it all together. It's complicated to say the least. It is extremely likely that your baby is reacting to foreign proteins in your milk. It may be dairy, but it may be more than that. (And I bet if you talk to your mum you will find that you were pretty much the same.
What are you allergic to, do you know? What are the triggers to your allergies, asthma and hives? Your baby is your child.
Keeping your baby on breastmilk while you sort this out is really important - and you can make it into a win/win situation. In fact breastfeeding mothers have many more options for feeding and comforting their babies than bottle feeding mothers. In the short term, an elemental formula may seem to offer a solution - but it doesn't address the underlying problems with your baby's immune system or allergies. Continuing to breastfeed will support your child's immune system. Either way - things will get easier as your little one gets older. Breastfeeding protects against infection and breastmilk has anti-inflammatory properties.
Joy Anderson is a dietician with expertise in allergies and intolerances. Her website is dieteticsandlactation.com.au and she does skype consultations. "Colic Solved" is a good and easy read and explains the relationship between reflux and allergies - you might find it in your ABA library or available at Mothers Direct

[Razzberry]

Thanks Barb,
It does feel like a jigsaw! I remember telling someone that even though breastfeeding my daughter was extremely traumatic for myself and painful for my DD I was still glad I did it for so long as if I had put her on a bottle from birth with just a regular formula, she still would have had the same problems (and more) as we ended up with pain association and then total breast refusal so if she had been on a bottle from the start and got pain association with that where would I have had to go from there? at least I could go from breast to the bottle (when she had settled down a bit!)

My parents said that my twin sis and I were both colicky babies that screamed and cried and didn't sleep - so I have wondered if we were undiagnosed with something else!

I have grown out of the asthma and very rarely get eczema now, though still get hay fever, but it was foods like pineapples and oranges that gave us hives. I have no idea if I was sensitive to milk as we both never (still don't) drink it as we hate the taste, and I very rarely have a bowl of cereal.

I will look at those websites you have suggested.

Just a bad night I suppose, hubby is working tonight and my 2 year old is giving me grief while I was trying to hold and calm a screaming baby

Love BB for all its support and advice

[Barb Glare]

The fact that you dislike milk so much is a fairly clear sign that you are allergic to it or intolerant. but dairy is in so many things that we eat. And it sounds likely that you have other allergies and intolerance. The good thing is that the course of problems with your little one will follow the course you followed - she will grow out of much of it - and it will be easier if you breastfeed. I see such a lot of women who are sold the false hope that it will be better if they are on formula - but it generally isn't!

[Olive]

Razz sounds like you need to be tested for protein intolerances, I had DD tested few years back via a nautropath, she had an intolerance to some nut protiens, it's done via a blood test

[Lisa B]

Hey there,

It sounds really tough. My DS would never take a complete BF and would come off crying every time I tried to attach, so I know it's really hard. I was then expressing and feeding by bottle before deciding to EE at 9 weeks. We did the reflux meds for awhile but it turned out for us it was a milk protein allergy. I read that you have already explored that. Initially I was told by a dietician to eliminate eggs, milk and wheat. I then reintroduced one at a time which is how we discovered it was the milk.

I guess I just wanted to give you a hug as I know these issues are really hard and there is so much emotion involved in deciding how to feed your baby. I was close to PND with how affected I was. Speak to the professionals for guidance and also listen to yourself amongst all of the views out there.

[Lisa B]

ooh, yes I just re-read some of the posts here and Catherine reminded me that yes it can take a couple of weeks before babies tummies settle after you've eliminated milk. Milk is eliminated from our milk within a couple of days but babies tummies take awhile to settle. My paediatrician explained that it was like eczema in the tummy. Anyhow, you mentioned that you tried eliminating milk but I wasn't sure how long you gave it so thought I would mention it.

[Ambersky]

Oh Razzberry, love to you, i just wanted to echo a couple of things, Milk protein can hang around in your system a while, you need to be completely dairy free for a couple of weeks, and I was lucky enough to see Joy Anderson in person, with DD2 she is brilliant! I think a phone or skype consult would be a great idea.