vent vent vent....

[minimatron]

so i am about to cry I just wrote up a huge pst and the page disappeared...I hate computers!

Anyway after being up from 510am with dd3 trying to give her the boob for an hour and then having to give her ebm and then having to pump, now dd1 and dd2 are awake...now I have no chance in going back to sleep after a fairly short night in bed....

SHE JUST WONT STAY AWAKE AT THE BOOB

At the breast she will suck suck swallow and come on and off a hundred times over or she will suck suck swallow and fall asleep, despite rubbing her head, tickling her ears, her feet, her shoulders, using a cold face washer, stripping her to nothing....she just wont keep on sucking/swallowing, so every time I have to give her ebm....

On the bottle...instantly after the boob and appearing like she has fallen in deep sleep, shove it in her mouth and she is wide eyed and sucking/swallowing until its all gone.

I just dont know what to do with her any more. Is she going to wake up enough for it or is she taking the easy way out? She is 7 weeks old now and by far the sleepiest baby I have had. I should be greatful for a more mellow baby and am waiting for the bubble to burst....but this is just rediculous.

I have engaged a LC who just says she is "bold"....not sure if she really means she is lazy? We have even tried putting the bottle teat on my nipple but that still doesnt work.

We are seeing an osteopath weekly which has helped with her actually attaching better. I have 2 more appointments booked with her before Christmas so Im just pondering what to do with those!

I suppose I am getting fed up/frustrated with it all because I have such a great supply and we have got so far from not being able to attach at all to getting on... now she just wont do it.... is it that bloody hard? I am sleep deprived, I sit on the couch all day, I pump all day I feed all day, I am trying hard and am just trying and hoping to see some sort of progress and an end to expressing. Will she wake up enough to have a full feed? Or is she just destined to have a bottle?

Thanks for listening. I am just having one of those days where I am ready to throw in the towel. I know tomorrow things will be different.

[*Efjay*]

Aww you poor thing, sounds very frustration. Also sounds like the LC was NO help what so ever.
Is it possible she is finding your let down to slow or her attachment is not great so its hard work for her to be on the breast? Could you try pumping first for a few minutes to get the flow happening & then pop her on so she has the milk brought forward for her & the hard bits already done? KWIM?

Hopefully barb will pop in with some useful tips for you

[minimatron]

Maybe both efjay! When I have a let down though theres plenty of milk and she either comes off or chocks and splutters....
I try do manually express a bit before she gets on because otherwise it kills my nipples because the are big and hard and she doesnt get on properly.

[MrsFabuloso]

Aww, big hugs Mel. I have no wise advice. I know you are doing everything you are think of to make this bf journey a long and happy one. I remember how hard it was trying to bf, bottle feed and express. It takes your whole day and makes you feel like that's all you're doing is sitting there with your boobs hanging out. Must be tought with having two other kidlets too. Big big hugs hun, I wish I could be helpful!

[*Efjay*]

I would try pumping for a bit before putting her on 1, to help the flow & take away that suddon fast jet of milk till she gets the hang of it & 2, to help soften the nipple to make it easier for her to attach better. Does she have a tongue tie?

[minimatron]

She had her tongue snipped at day 2.... just about to try the pump and get her on... let you know!

[minimatron]

Nope didnt work....

[Kmn]

Blast!
It was 6 weeks before my DS got back to BF, and another lady in My Mum's group had to express for 9 weeks.
I'm wondering/clutching at straws as to whether your DD would do better if she had a bit of her bottle to give her some energy, and then the boob and then the rest of the bottle.....
There are a couple of other hero-Mums who have managed this sort of complicated BF-ing while looking after other kids, and may be able to give you some tips, or at least a real live someone who has really been there and done that. Is it OK for me to PM them and ask them to PM you??
hugs
Kate

[minimatron]

Yes Kate please! I need inspiration!

[Fleur]

I suppose I am getting fed up/frustrated with it all because I have such a great supply and we have got so far from not being able to attach at all to getting on... now she just wont do it.... is it that bloody hard? I am sleep deprived, I sit on the couch all day, I pump all day I feed all day, I am trying hard and am just trying and hoping to see some sort of progress and an end to expressing. Will she wake up enough to have a full feed? Or is she just destined to have a bottle?

Oh hun I have been ^ there.
It is so tough to be where you are now. But as you said, it will get better. Tell yourself that over & over if you need to it is true.

The first few weeks are the absolute hardest. She is only a new little one yet, it took me weeks before I got a grip on it all. Feeding problems make it so much harder to settle in with a new baby, you know?
But it doesn't last forever. One way or another, it WILL get easier.

So at the moment, you are doing everything you can, and that's really important. I had a few people tell me to pack it in (DH was great though), but it was really important for me to know I was doing all I could.

It did get easier when I gave up trying to BF. It is time consuming & can be really stressful. So in some ways it was a bit of a relief.
BUT, if you can, hang in there & persist with the attachment, I sometimes wish I could have persisted longer. However I do remember how bloody frustrating it was! to have a baby that just won't latch, and for no good reason. At the time, we / I had just had enough - she was 10 weeks when I stopped trying to BF and went to full time expressing.

If you do continue expressing for some time, know that it gets easier all the time, too. I used to set myself short term goals. My ultimate goal was to feed her (in whatever way) for 12 months, but my first goal was 3 months. And you're over halfway there
As she gets older you will be able to reduce the amount you need to express too, which makes it easier again.

The others have given you some great advice here in terms of feeding, hopefully it will come together for you soon.

[MantaRay]

You are doing a fantastic job hun I know this has been going on for what must feel like forever to you right now, but you really have made some progress. In the first week did you ever think you'd get this far? Your determination is just so special hun.

Are you happy with your LC? I remember from your other posts that your situation is quite complex - is this an LC that Barb recommended?

I know you can keep going hun. You've come this far with perseverance, I know you can go another day. And probably even another day after that. One day at a time, one small win after another, you will get there. And boy will that be a great feeling

[studymum]

I remember when DD1 was like that because of jaundice. I found it really hard for about 3 weeks to get her to stay awake. Are you demand feeding? Maybe she's not ready for a feed just yet.

What worked really well for me was to let her get herself a bit worked up before I tried feeding her, then she was well and truly awake, if I tried at the grunt and grizzle stage she would just flake again as soon as she got the comfort. If she did start to fall asleep she actually hated the hell out me scruffing up her hair a bit roughly and a very physically back rubbing, and she would wake up properly again lol.

Maybe she is becoming a bit used to the easiness of the bottle already? I suppose maybe she wakes for it because it is easily flowing. Sorry, not much help eh.

[minimatron]

****E.... I have no idea what it is with my stupid stupid computer..... another post lost GGgrrr....

Ok in short.....

I made it through yesterday and had a good sleep and feel much better today.

Fleur thanks for telling me your story.My first goal was till the end of this week and I have decided to keep going. I would ideally like to make it til 3 months to see if her being bigger and more alert will make a difference. At 7 weeks old I thought babies wake up a fair bit. She still sleeps like a newborn and today I am going to take a note of how long she is awake for. Im not sure if I want to express long term as I hate expressing.... it hurts, its restrictive and i have a and 2 year old as well.

MR- yes thanks I am suprised at my own determination and cant believe I made it this far. I didnt end up using the other suggested LCs because one was too far away and the other I would have to take out a personal loan! I did see my LC and yeah.... as lovely as she is she wasnt much help.

Studymum thanks for your words. I do all sorts of things to wake this little lady!! She loves it and she just sleeps through it! I demand feed, I never wake her up for a feed, although sometimes I do find it hard to work out if she is really hungry because she is madly sucking on her thumb! She grunts and groans doing that!

efjay- I gave her nearly a whole bottle and expressed a bit out as she was still hungry but uinfortunately she still did the same thing. She gets so agro when she comes on and off and slaps my boob.

I supoose I just have to take it a day at a time. I will aim for 3 months, its really not that far away!
Thank you

[Fleur]

One day at a time is a great way to get there. Sometimes that's all I could do.
And I know how frustrating it is too to find little help from an LC - as much as they tried, they just couldn't offer anything.
If the expressing is hurting, can you have a look at that? Maybe try bigger flanges, or a different pump? can you adjust the pump settings?
Every day that you make it through, you are giving yourself options & acheiving more. You'll get there

[minimatron]

Im using the medela pump in style. I apparently have huge nipples so they touch the sides of the flange and it stings. I start off on a low setting them turn it up accordoingly. Im not sure if Medela do a larger flange?

[MantaRay]

I'm pretty sure Medela do make a bigger flange hun. Is there any chance you could get to the ABA breastfeeding centre in Dandenong or the Mothers Direct Store in East Malvern? They could help you out with information and Mothers Direct can order you the flange if they don't have it in stock.

One more day of bfing - well done hun

[Kmn]

Medela do a bigger flange - and according to the site below they also make a rather ginormous one, which might be exactly what you need.
And it makes a big difference.
THey're not expensive - but the bigger flange is the hard plastic one rather than the "softtouch" - not that the softtouch is exactly soft if it don't fit!
<Link Removed

[Shanti]

Im using the medela pump in style. I apparently have huge nipples so they touch the sides of the flange and it stings. I start off on a low setting them turn it up accordoingly. Im not sure if Medela do a larger flange?

yeah it shouldn't be hurting, if it is, like suggested, it must be the wrong fit for you. I am sure you can get a bigger one. Did you check out Medela yet? There is a great website called Nursing Angel where I just bought some Medela stuff off, you can try them?

I'm so sorry to hear things are so tough for you, it really is so hard when you know bub is nearly 2mths old and you're still struggling. As you know, I've been there. I promise it will get easier for you although it seems so hard at the moment.....DD was always a sleepy baby too (at one stage due to not getting enough milk etc!) and it was so hard getting her to have a proper feed as she'd fall asleep ALOT!! Even after cold washes on her tummy etc.

proud of you for doing so much for your daughter, with 2 other kids to look after.