What does she do now? (Long)

[Cupcake]

I just typed a huge post and then went to post and lost it...

Im one of four girls. im 22, then my next sister is 15, 13 and then 10.

The issue my mum is having is with my 13YO sister, ill refer to her as 'A'.

'A' has always been rebellious, she ditched her first day of school in grade 3. Sat in the bush next to the school until home time. There have been a lot more issues since then but i'll fast forward a few years...

Mum moves from one suburb to another a few hours north. Fresh start for 'A'.

Last year ('A' is 12) i get a call from mum letting me know 'A' is in hospital, she has had her stomach pumped from alcohol poisoning...she was found passed out, in a park, in the rain...by the police. I call her at the hospital and she's chilling out watching movies doesnt phase her at all..

Suspended a few times from school, mum does what she can to dicipline. Grounded, phone taken away, no internet, no ipod...nothing. She steals mums phone, leaves the house whenever she pleases and somehow got a hold of a modem for the computer (mum has to hide parts of the computer or 'A' is up until all hours of the morning on it, regardless of what mum has said)

After the alocohol incident she was sent to councelling where she sat in silence for the whole time, then when mum asks what they talked about 'A' tells mum the questions and answers to which mum asked well why didnt you say that to the councilor? "I dunno"

Mum has been to countless doctors and they all say the same thing "oh gotta love teenagers" or "ahh typical teenage girl". Thats not right, this isnt typical. She absolutely lets go and throws things around her room or yells the nastiest things at people she can think then goes all quiet and a few hours later will break down in tears apologizing and not knowing why she does it. She has said to mum on a few occassions she doesnt know why she does the things she does...

She asks mum if she can go out mum says no she goes anyway..she asks for a lift somewhere mum says no youre grounded so she calls one of her older friends to come pick her up...She was recently found hanging out with an 18YO little did he know she was 13 and he could get in A LOT of trouble should anything have happened...my uncle has litterally chased a boy (the boy in his car my uncle running) down the street as he has been told to stay away from her but he doesnt listen...

Mum phoned me before in hysterics tonight as 'A' had taken the keys of mums partners car and tried to drive it down the driveway until she got caught then ran into her room and slammed the door, her and mum argued with 'A' screaming "just give up on me mum, give up on me" then she ran away bawling...

'A' and i are so extremely similar in everyway...looks, attitude EVERYTHING, so i guess thats why i feel for her and why i am so upset by this all. her next step is to come live with me but mum doesnt want her to as thats just running away and she always ends up back at mums, which i get but i just want to help her. Im affraid shes going to get in too deep to get out. Like when i was a kid, if i threw a tantrum and half way through knew i was wrong i would keep the tantrum up as i was too embarassed to admit i was wrong so would rather be overtly angry then admit i was wrong and suck it up, i feel 'A' is the same but more extreme IYKWIM

So 1. i just needed to get that off my chest but 2. i was wondering if anyone had any advice, or and idea where to go from here. I cant stop crying thinking of what she is doing to her life! Please dont reply with "dicipline" mum has tried everything 'A' just doesnt listen and short of chaining her to the house there is nothing that will keep that girl in the house...she does what she wants when she wants...

She gets suspended and its like a holiday for her, her guidence councillor at school knows what she is like and is trying to help mum best he can but theres only so much he can do.

Help?

[Lulu]

Shiat. How scary.

Have to run but has your mum tried a group called "Tough Love"? They are VERY supportive for parents as well as suggesting tactics for dealing with terrible behaviour. I think they formed because no one seemed to understand how bloody awful and extreme some children can be - so the people there will at least understand xoxoxoxo

[Cupcake]

Thanks Lulu, no i dont think she (or me for that matter) has heard of them i will pass that on

[Lulu]

google it, there is some good info on the net xoxoxo

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Oh the poor girl, if these things started so early how can Dr's put it down to her being a normal teenager?
I know she wouldn't speak to the therapist but are there any other tests they can do about behavioral functionality? Could it be something like ADHD or whatever it's called now?

I hope things sort themselves out for her, seems like she is also at her wits end and knows it's not always within her control...

Good luck i hope you and your family get the help you need for her.

[kirsty_lee]

Wow. I don't want to be out of line here or anything. But there is a definate reason for this behaviour, and underlying issue. Kids/teenagers don't just act out like this for no reason kwim? I hate to ask but has there ever been any kinds of abuse? Or someone she was extremely close to die or something like that? Or does she have issues with your mum's partner? Thats where your mum needs to start I think. Finding out what the underlying problem is, because this just goes way beyond a kid just "acting up" kwim?

[Cupcake]

Just got off the phone with mum.

Not long after 'A' and mum argued and 'A' ran off, she came back bawling and grabbed mum and cuddled her and said i dont know why i do it, i want to change. So together they came up with an agreement, she has a month to 'repent' so to speak, she has written a letter of apology to the school, has apologised to mums partner, my uncle and her behaviour needs to change, then after a month pending the outcome they will be going to as many doctors as it takes to find out whats wrong, which 'A' agreed to.

If i know 'A' she will have a blow up over something within that month so i can see them going to doctors sadly. Although if it helps everyone to understand why she does what she does i guess she (and everyone else) will be better off...

I let mum know there is always the option for 'A' to live with me to which i got a "No, shes not doing that, she cant keep running away..." which i get...kinda.

Lulu i told mum about the Tough Love and she is going to look it up

[Lulu]

She will need some pretty clear boundaries - no riding in cars with boys etc.

She will also need some tools to help her deal with her anger (or whatever it may be) when it surfaces again. Maybe it's ok if she storms out of the house - but can she agree to go for a run around the block to shake it off etc.
If she doesn't feel like talking things out, it might be ok for her to hibernate in her room with a 'do not disturb' sign - or even (my fave) stick a certain colour post it on the door to signal "bugger off", "feeling sad" or "I might want to talk about things later".

If she and your mum can come up with a plan that A feels might work when she wants to blow up, she may be able to slow it down or stop it altogether. But mum must remain in control - with A's input. And it might take a bit of time

My little one goes off like a rocker and has said several times that "he doesn't want to be like this", so when I can feel something brewing I have had success with saying to him "remember, this is not how you want it to be -what can we do". He often falls into my arms crying with relief that he doesn't have to maintain the rage.

xoxoxo

GL!

[HotI]

"just give up on me mum, give up on me" then she ran away bawling...

I wonder if there may be a mental health issue causing some of these behaviours or following on from them. Is there depression or other illnesses in the family?

Do you reckon your sister and your Mum would want to check is side out?

take care,

Kate

[Cupcake]

Lulu the post it idea is GREAT! I might suggest that one to mum! Personally i think she has A LOT of energy and she needs to be playing sports to releive it IYKWIM, they tried to sign her up for sports this year but were too late.

No history of mental illness in the fam kate, no doctors have taken mum seriously thus far so not sure how she would go with that one, i know she is seeking out other doctors in her area but living in a smallish town youre kind of limited IYKWIM...i think its definately an issue within her tho, be it mental illness or something a little less serious, i just hope that someone will take mums concerns seriously soon and not palm it off as typical teenage behaviour

[mrsmac]

Google - Borderline personality disorder, not sure if this fits all her behaviours but you may find some answers. Its a fairly newish diagnosis and is not recognised by all in mental health but may be worth exploring.

[diannescruffy]

I'm only thinking out loud here but what is her school work like, is it possible she has learning difficulty. Thinking back to her grade 3 episode of skipping the day, often children who have learning difficulties will misbehave to take away the attention from their school work, just a thought.

Regards,
Dianne

[Cupcake]

School work is non existent...she plays up in class which is the reason for all of her suspensions, do you think a tutour would help?

[Dr. Tal]

Hey Amy,

One very big thing that your sister has going for her is an obviously supportive family. You'd be surprised what a difference that can make. Something else that says there is still a lot of hope is that she doesn't want to be that way and she apologises for it.

My mum teaches 6th 7th and 8th graders with emotional and behavioral disabilites (so a similar age group to your sister). If you don't have a problem with it, I'll copy your post and e-mail it to her and see if she knows of any 'disability' type that matches some of the stuff you've written.

I know one thing that sticks in my mind, and I don't know whether mum was telling me about it or I saw it on TV somewhere or where I got it from. But there was a girl who had outbursts, similarish to your sisters (and from memory she was about the same age as your sister as well), but she got violent as well. Her parents went from doctor to doctor and specialist to specialist and everyone said basically the same things that were said to your mum. Teenagers being teenagers, or she needs more discipline etc.. But she was eventually diagnosed with turrets (not sure if I spelled that right) syndrome. It's the one that causes people to have tics. These are usually just small sounds or movements or whatnot, but they can be more obvious and worse and her tic was these yelling violent outbursts. So she couldn't help it. She didn't want to do what she was doing and she would feel horrible about it after and cry and apologise, but it was literally out of her control. I can't remember if they gave her meds or did brain surgery or something, but basically they 'fixed the problem' and she is now a 'normal' teenager living a 'normal' life.

[Cupcake]

I definately agree with mrsmac in that a teachers aid would embarrass her but will most definately look into provate tutoring, even if i have to pay for it.

Thanks tal, if your mum would like to take a look that would be fantastic! My understanding of Turrets (sp?) is that it is involuntary? Where as her outbursts whilst they are more dramatic then she wants them to be, they are directed at certain situations IYKWIM

Thank you all so much for your advice!!

[Dr. Tal]

Amy,
Here is what my mum had to say.

Hey babe,
Don't know if I can help ot not. It sounds like an emotional disorder to me or a conduct disorder. If it is an emotional disorder I would have her tested by a psycologist. A child with an emotional disorder has really no control over their rages and usually apologise and really don't remember what happened. I would recommend the WISC test. I think they are using edition 4 now. Then there are a couple more tests that can be done. I don't know if the schools there have testing done by psychologists for disabilities. We have one on staff and the school pays for it. I don't know if she can go that way or not.
The other problem could be conduct disorder which the child knows right from wrong but chooses to do the wrong thing anyway and then show little or no remorse. There isn't much you can do for conduct disorder becuase the child is making choices knowing the consequences.
Having a psychologist do testing will tell you whether it is a conduct disorder or emotional disorder. This is what we have on our permission to evaluate form that the parent signs giving permission for the testing to take place. It should give some idea of what testing should be done.
Psychological Evaluation is designed to assess personality and/or behavioral functioning. Commonly used evaluation methods include parent and child interviews, personality inventories, behavior rating scales and projective tests.

Let me know if it helps.
Love You MUM

Hope that helps some.

[Cupcake]

Just a quick update for you all

A will be moving up with me & DP this week sometime and starting school next term as QLD schools go on holidays at the end of the week, wish me luck haha

[LionsandBears]

Good luck with it

I agree with others - she should be psych tested. It can feel threatening to think there's something "wrong" with you, but it can also be a huge relief to find out what is behind it. It doesn't mean she's not accountable for her behaviour, and tring to improve it, but a label - whether AD/HD, ODD, or whatever - means you know what help to find - behaviour therapists, ADD coaches, medication, etc. It may also help with school if they understand what they're dealing with.

I was recently diagnosed with ADD at 35 - wish I had been 20 years ago, it could have made a real difference to studying etc. Not that I'm a mess or anything - I learnt coping behaviours, but ADD people often develop anxiety and depression because they don't understand why they are they way they are, and why they can't control certain things - you really beat yourself up about things that seem easy to others, but are soo hard.

I've done a quick search for clinical psych's in gold coast:
Psychologist Brisbane - Fiona Millar, Brisbane Clinical Psychologist Gold Coast
Australian Psychological Society : Find a Psychologist

To get the medicare rebate, you need to be referred by a GP. It's usually pretty easy to organise - if you don't find a doctor that can help, keep searching.