Channel 7's 'Sunday Night' - To Snip or Not to Snip?

[Miss E]

My DH and I have been talking about this since we got pregnant and TBH still haven't reached a decision... But I do want to say that I think getting your son circumcised because his father wants his penis to look like his, really isn't the most rational reasoning. This is because:
- the childs penis will still look different to their fathers ? unless of course your little boy has pubic hair and is oversized.
- the child is probably more concerned with having a penis that looks like their peers, rather than their fathers (lets face it kids do compare these things).

Hope I haven't offended anyone, this is just my opinion.

[Rouge]

Awesome post Willow, couldn't agree more. I love the assumption that a person who makes a decision has done so due to lack of education and needs to be educated by long winded posts (once its done its done!). Or maybe you can change a few people's minds with emotionally charged words like "mutilation" or "brutal". Or how its even comparable to removing an entire sexual organ???? I can't put it back and I don't ever regret the decision we made. I used to find debates like this hurtful because it seems people don't care about how they word things and the accusations against parents and how they can hurt. But then I realised why do I need to even take part? I don't need to know why other people do or don't. And I don't care what others think about the fact that we did.

So if you're feeling attacked by this thread, please don't You don't need to, you are the only person who needs to be ok with any decision you make with regards to your own children. And you are not heartless, mean or uncaring whatever decision you make.

[Pretty Butterfly]

Great post Niliac

Everyone only has themslves to answer to for their own choices, and everyones choices will be different, as will be their reasons.

I must say though, I like the "long winded" posts.

I would much prefer the truth, with real statistics, then a bunch of crap from the tele!!!

I would rather be informed, then entertained.

[blessedatlast]

unfortunately it isnt that simple to get it done as an adult. It is extremely difficult and painful.

Not so if you ask my partner.. As I have stated he only had his done less than a year ago, for cosmetic reasons..

It was in a private practice and doc gave him numbing cream to apply an hour before surgery then he had pethadine shots (2 I think).. The procedure took about an hour. I went and picked him up and the doc wanted him to urinate before he let him go.. No problems.. Then he lay on the lounge for the weekend with ice on it.. (it was all bandaged) then he was back at work on Monday after having it done friday.. Admittedly he was given a script for panadeine but he only needed them that day.. Only problem we encountered was we DTD a bit soon and he split a stitch.. Went to doctors, no problem.. And it has healed nicely.. The scar is visible though.. and a bit thicker where the stitch split.

I am not totally against circumsicion, it is just my preference to not get my sons done..

[Willow]

Cai - "Barbaric" and "child abuse" are my favourites really isn't a better way to get parents riled up than to accuse them of barbaric acts against their child, or child abuse huh??

I love the assumption that a person who makes a decision has done so due to lack of education and needs to be educated by long winded posts

Could not agree more!! Unfortunately, I think this happens too often on BB.

[Lisa]

My DH, his father and his 4 brothers are all circumcised.
My Dad, grandfathers and brothers all are.
We made the choice not to circumcise our sons. I respect anyone who chooses to have their son's circumcised and I would like to think that my choice to not circumcise our son's is respected too. Funny enough though, I have found that I have had to justify my reasons for not having my sons circumcised loads of times but I don't expect someone to justify their reasons for circumcision.
We all do what we feel is right for our own families and that should be all that matters.

[Freya]

blessedatlast - so compare your husband's operation (although Ive never heard of it being done without GA in adults so there you go - brave man!) to how they did my boys............a local anaesthetic needle to numb the entire groin, the foreskin pulled back and the plasticbell device inserted, the foreskin is cut so that only a small ring is left over the plastibell, a peice of string ties it all off then gauze is wrapped around it. The groin is still numb for atleast 2hrs afterward. After a small bout of crying during the procedure not a tear to be seen afterward, not even any panadol given (because he didnt seem to need it). No stitches, no worries about erections causing issues, no icepacks. The plastibell slipped off a few days later just like the umbilical cord did. Right as rain, penis works like normal.

As far as Im aware my 2.5yo has no idea he was even circumcised and no idea of the 'trauma' he went through to have it done. I dont think Ive ever met anyone who had it done as a small baby who remembers getting it done. The reason why they encourage it to be done before 4mths old (those Drs Ive encountered who do it anyhow) is because a) they dont need to use GA which can be unsafe for small children and babies unless its absolutely neccesary b) babies heal rather quickly so it eliminates the need for stitches and there is little to no blood involved c) they dont really remember it because they are so young (Ive had more tears out of my boys from falls/brother inflicted injuries than their circumcisions), I know I cant remember anything before the age of 4 (and I was belted over the head with a golf club at 2yo which split my skull apart lengthways - I dont even remember it happening nor do I remember the immense pain I must have been in!)

I must admit Im a bit wary of the 'cosmetic reasons' issue because I would like to think parents would be fully informed of the risks and benefits, and the ins & outs of how its done, before making the choice to circumcise - buts thats assuming they arent informed. If they are then more power to them its their choice. Same as its your choice NOT to circumcise.

[Oorki Galoorki]

i am suprised that long term members are whinging about this debate coming up over and over again.. of course it does we have new members that dont go searching for archived threads...

those of us who have been on here for a few yrs now have seen this and every post come up multiple times.. if you know it all then dont read them or post... but to the newer members keep posting these ones you will get new information(to you) occasionally.

this debate is no different to the bf vs ff or cs vs nat. it will happen over and over again! perhaps BB should stop now cos we have put out all the info we can on both sides with nothing new to add.... how silly!

[Rouge]

I think thats a bit unfair doudou, and slightly too literal.

[Willow]

Doudou - I don't agree. I think *often* these threads are started with the intent of creating a debate, not for the information they may contain. Often people just cannot discuss the issue respectfully and the thread quickly deteriorates - this is evidenced by the number of times threads of this nature are closed by mods. Which is why us 'long term members' tend to cringe when we see another one pop up.

But hey, it's my bb too and I'll whinge if I want to

Anyway, I've said my bit now.

[visitor1]

DouDou i have to agree with you post. How many times does the same posts come up across all the forums.....no one complains then....but when its this certain topic (and other as you suggested) everyone has to add their complaints.

Whilst its the same thing said every time, i enjoy reading the views of others, and sometimes get a new insight

[Pretty Butterfly]

I was thinking the same thing doudou!!

This is going to come up again. And will as long as pregnant mums have boys, and want answers.

I would rather she got her info from a long winded post with truth and facts than the Sunday show!!

Far from everybody has made a choice yet. If you already know it all then dont read it. But there are going to be a LOT of women still to make the choice, and found them to be great posts.

[~breeze~]

Awesome post Willow, couldn't agree more. I love the assumption that a person who makes a decision has done so due to lack of education and needs to be educated by long winded posts (once its done its done!). Or maybe you can change a few people's minds with emotionally charged words like "mutilation" or "brutal". Or how its even comparable to removing an entire sexual organ???? I can't put it back and I don't ever regret the decision we made. I used to find debates like this hurtful because it seems people don't care about how they word things and the accusations against parents and how they can hurt. But then I realised why do I need to even take part? I don't need to know why other people do or don't. And I don't care what others think about the fact that we did.

So if you're feeling attacked by this thread, please don't You don't need to, you are the only person who needs to be ok with any decision you make with regards to your own children. And you are not heartless, mean or uncaring whatever decision you make.

Great post

I usually ignore these "heated topics" because I understand everyone makes different choices for different reasons. So sometimes I read through them but bite my tongue as I dont want to offend anyone if I disagree with something they've decided to do/not to do or I may choose not to post as I dont want to be attacked for my choices.

I chose to have DS circumsised. I refuse to let ANYONE make me feel bad for the decision I have made. I made the choice that I felt was right for US, including DS. What others choose to do, whether it be to snip/not to snip or to immusise/not to immunise I believe is their choice & I dont try to convince them to change it.

DS's cost $500 & I think we ended up getting back around $300 because we had passed the specified medical amount spent throughout the year already (cant think of what its called for the life of me!). He was 6 weeks old. No probs, happy boy afterwards. No need for panadol, although I gave it to him before bedtime.

2 of my nephews had to be circumsised when they were around 6 or 8yrs old. They had a rough time & it was over 10yrs ago now & they do still remember the pain/discomfort etc (someone posted that they've never known any young boys remember the pain, I just wanted to point out that SOME boys do)

I refuse to argue with anyone over this topic.

[Oorki Galoorki]

how is it unfair?

yes these "debates" keep coming up. but BB is here to educate be it for or against. long term members know what we all believe on these subjects so we should know not to attack any one for thier choice.
BUT there are newbies that havent seen these debates come up every few months so if the information can be presented then let it be presented over and over.

[MantaRay]

Danielle, I understand what you are saying. A close friend of ours was circd at age 11 due to medical problems and to this day remembers the pain. So much so that when DS1 was born he specifically asked us our intentions as he wanted to let us know about his experience. He is very pro-circing babies as it was so traumatic for him later in life.

[New Dawn]

Ummm to post or not to post that is my question... I am one to normally keep away from these threads...

Before I post I must decleare I HAVE NOT read all the post just the last page...

DS isnt done... we wanted him to be but we were young and rail roaded until we didnt do it, we had in a public, they told me that they wouldn't do it until he was 6 weeks, at 6 weeks we had moved from NSW to the NT where we were told that they didnt do it until 12mths, by the time he was 12mths we had moved fro mthe NT to Cairns, where we were told not to get it done and that it was too late anyway they like to do it close to birth as posible...

I am on the fence as to what we would do if we are lucky enough to have another son... DS skin still doesnt go all the way back, have been told that this will mean one of 4things, 1 it will go back " one day soon " 2, he will have to get is the piece of skin that is still attched moved back by a doctor 3 he will move back on its own when he had his first sexual experince, or last but not least they will have to give him the snip in the end after all...

So you can see why I am unsure if we had another boy, when we first had DS I wanted it done so that he could look like his dad, and coz I hate the look of the them unsniped turns me off... so thought he should be the same... But came to realize that it doesnt matter if he looks like his dad his dad isnt the one in the change rooms with him his peers are, so it better to look like your peers than you dad, plus as strange as I think it looks with skin will be what the girls of his generation might think of a penis without skin IYKWIM....

so for now we are waiting to see if DS penis corrects it's self, and we will go from there..

As for the show... I think as with all the those type of shows its a load of scare mungering, there were scare taktics on both sides, AIDS and desease did make me think Oooo maybe we should get him done... but thats my fear talking not my brain... If the world heath does do a study and it come out that there is a link and so it become easier for us to get our boys sniped with out the fear that we will condemed that I think thas a good thing... No one has the right to tell you that its not the right or wrong thing to do...

[Cassius2]

I have to agree with DouDou. It's good to hear these debates and topics come up every now and then, as with all things, approaches change, new research comes out (Brontide posted a good article in the new scientist) etc etc. AND there are new ppl on this forum, trying to reach out to others for info.

of course it's heated. if you do it, you're labelled a bad, uniformed parent, if you dont do it, you're labelled a bad, uninformed parent. but what comes out between the rhetoric and sweeping generalisations from all sides, are sometimes really good snippets of information and insight into the 'other side' of the debate. it makes us more whole.

In our situation, my uncles have had it done, my cousins have not. My DH got it done as an adult and have to respectfully disagree with AnnaT that the procedure is much worse for older men. DH had it done, was awake for the procedure, had to wait the couple of hours for the anaesthetic to wear off and do a pee. then went home with a packet of panadeine and strict instructions not to DTD or such like until all healed. once feeling came back to him he found the latter rather 'tricky' to follow LOL! . he did say that he felt like a liberated man when the he his penis was numb and he could just think straight . oh BTW, DH got it done as it was mandatory for his MANDATORY military service. but i think he quite likes the change

for us, because of DHs experiences, we are open to the possibility, but ultimately we will leave that decision to any son/s we may have. the kid's probably going to ask questions (especially if, like one poster mentioned, more kids are getting it done, then no doubt there is going to be a fair mix in the change-rooms at school)...DH still gets asked about it at soccer! and we will be there to answer them. if he chooses to get it done while still in our nest at home, cool. if he chooses not cool. house that for fence sitting LOL!

[Freya]

Danielle - I meant boys under the age of 2 not remembering any pain My brother was done at 6yo because the hospital and my mothers OB flatly refuses to refer her to someone until he had several complications and she practically held a paed surgeon hostage until he consented to do it. Horrible that she had to wait that long and do that in order to have it done. It was very upsetting for both her and my brother, he remembers a majority of it to this day. I remember watching him be in pain, even with pain meds, and feeling so awful for him. Not to mention the scar he has to live with (physical I mean) because he had stitches.

Forgot to answer before - we've paid anywhere between $200-$400 for their circumcisions. Ds1 we got back half, Ds2 we got half back, Ds3 we got $100 back. Prob would have got more if we had hit the safety net threshhold. Id like to make it clear I would have done it whether we got all of the $$ back or none.

Cassius - Ive just gone off what men who have been circumcised as adults and Drs have told Dh. Seems it might be an individual thing as to whether its painful and traumatic or not so Im glad you respectfully disagree with me and that your Dh had no issues with it.