Circumcision Decision, Opinions and Info Wanted

[Maruschke]

My friend had her DS done last week at birth and was told by her obs that the rate of circs atm is about 40% of boys.

This is interesting! I thought the rate was much much lower. I found a site (I will find it again and link to it) that states that the Australian average is 12% but it differs by state.

My friend has two boys and she suggested the rate was something crazy like 2%, and I am sure this is too low!

Ok, here it is.

Circumcision in Australia

The rate differs substantially from state to state, but it is a lot higher than I thought. Perhaps the group against circumcision are more vocal than the group for circumcision?

[Lolli]

There is actually a poll somewhere on the forums that asks whether or not you chose to circumsise. I've been looking but can't find it, does anyone else know where it is?

ETA- Almost forgot. With the public hospital thing- it's no longer offered at public hospitals a few days after birth as it used to be. According to our specialist (who was also a peaditirician at Sydney Children's Hospital), this was changed sometime during the Carr governments years in power (I can't remember exactly which year it was). They reclassified circumsion as a cosmetic surgery, as opposed to neccessary surgery, as a cost cutting measure. As a result, only portion of the cost is still covered by Medicare (I can't remember how much, I think it was about $200) but it can be quite spensive- we paid $600.

[DANNIIM]

I don't really need to give you any advice as there has been plenty given and it is really a personal choice although i don't think that a parent has the right to choose whether to mutilate there little boy....what would most ppl say if you did that to a little girl????
Anyway when my DS was born i was actually quite shocked...horrified that i was even asked if i would like to have my son circumcised by the medicos, i thought it was well and truely gone and finished with, that you had to hunt down a dr that was willing to do the procedure!

Another thought is, what would happen if the procedure went horribly wrong...it does happen?

[visitor1]

I always thought if i had a boy i would get it done...but DH is very strongly against it. After alot of debating (ok well me listening and him talking and me not getting a word in) he had very vaild points and we have decided we will NOT be getting BumbleBee done.

Dh is cut, but after speaking to his mum it was due to a medical issue at birth and it was neccessary for it to happen.

[~ Mylitta ~]

I'm sure everyone else has put forward some extremely good arguments, so I won't say too much.

Personally I would never have a son circumsised. I've read studies that have said the reason the baby sometimes doesn't even cry during the procedure is because they are in so much pain their body goes into something similar to shock. I was at the birth of my best friends baby and saw how much he screamed after his hep injection an hour after birth. If that tiny jab hurt, I can't imagine what having your penis skin cut up would feel like.

Also, I watched a video that showed how the procedure is done in newborns and I thought it was horrific. If you don't want it done but your DH and his family are still wanting it, my suggestion would be to have them watch a video on how it's done. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find one on youtube or if you googled it.

Good luck with everything!!!

[mrsmac]

I don't really need to give you any advice as there has been plenty given and it is really a personal choice although i don't think that a parent has the right to choose whether to mutilate there little boy....what would most ppl say if you did that to a little girl????

I love how you say its a personal choice and then immediately label people who choose to get it done as MUTILATING their son. Why does freedom of speech only seem to apply to those against???? What if I think you are being deliberately neglectful of your son's hygiene and health by NOT having it done?? I would be immediately pilloried and abused if I dare said anything along those lines. I believe it is everyone's choice and I wish other people will do me the same courtesy by not making me out to be some kind of monster.

[Kailani]

Hi Diana,

To me, all the points you've mentioned under "your position" are the reasons that I would not get it done if I were you. It seems like you are already strongly against it. Like your Mum said, the cleaning issue really isn't an issue! It is not difficult to be a little more thorough in that department at bath time Also, as you mentioned, you would never do such a thing should you have a little girl. That would be outrageous! I honestly can't think of any valid reasons why you should put your son through such an experience, as it certainly isn't a necessity and is purely cosmetic if you're doing it for the fact he will be the same as his father. Also, I'm not sure how the pain and confusion he would be going through during the procedure is even worth just looking like dad? They're going to look a lot different down there for a long while anyway! Just doesn't seem to justify it but thankfully I haven't been in your position but I know it's hard when your partner is adament on one thing and you completely oppose it so I do sympathise. It seems like your DH is getting heaps of persusion from his family also, but in the end it's not their decision, it's his and yours!

All the best!

[maz]

Hmmm are you now regretting asking this question????

It doesnt matter what I or anyone else thinks. This baby is yours, not mine or anyones elses and you have the ultimate choice without having to have others judge you for how you lead your life.

Pro's and cons...BLAH - what do you feel in your heart is the best thing to do? maybe you should wait until you meet your little man in person before jumping into any thing.

Dont try to think about this situation to much....I know its hard but you dont want to consum the last bit of your pg in worrying if your going to be doing the right/wrong thing.

im sure you'll make the best decission for your self, DH and your baby boy in the end.

[Sair]

I can't remember who said that a portion of the surgery is covered by Medicare but I thought I would correct that. As of July - August 2007 they stopped covering a portion of the surgery as it was deemed an unneccissary procedure. I got Noah booked in just in time to have a portion refunded.

If you do get it done, then get the plastibell method to get the best result, and only at 6 weeks of age or earlier. They seem to outgrow the plastibell quite quickly and I think Noahs was slightly botched because he was too big. He was left with a bit of foreskin that covers about half the head when not retracted. It looks fine but was not in my mind a full circ, so therefore 'botched'.

Also, Vaseline MUST be applied religiously or skin will re bond around the base of the head.

Good luck with your decision, it isn't an easy decision to make. You might always wonder if you should have or should not have if you don't have a set in stone opinion on whether it is 'right' or 'wrong'. Just read both sides of the story and make your own choice, it is not up to anyone else.

[Lolli]

I can't remember who said that a portion of the surgery is covered by Medicare but I thought I would correct that. As of July - August 2007 they stopped covering a portion of the surgery as it was deemed an unneccissary procedure. I got Noah booked in just in time to have a portion refunded.

.

LMS, We had our son done in December '07 and I am 100% positive that I was refunded around $200 from Medicare. I think the loophole may be that the surgery cost is not refunded, but the cost of the consultation, and perhaps the anesthetic, is.

[Sair]

Maybe thats what it was then ( so I stand corrected ), Noah did not have a general and the consultation was bulk billed, I just went to a medical clinic and it cost $185 for the procedure.

[Schmickers]

Circumcision is an emotive issue, and one over which many parents hold strongly polarised views one way or another. I encourage all of you to share your views politely and with consideration for the other participants in this thread. It is important to remember that circumcision is a procedure that some surgeons in Australia offer to parents for their babies for non-medical reasons, and they are free to pursue it if they so desire.

[Schmickers]

And to add my opinion...

I do not believe that circumcision for purely cosmetic reasons is justified. Circumcision is a surgical procedure that carries with it risks (such as the risk of the wound becoming infected, and the risk of the scar eventually damaging the function of the penis) for no clear benefits.

While it is true that circumcision does reduce the rate of urinary tract infections in young boys, the Canadian Paediatric Association performed an analysis of the statistics that indicated that the reduction in risks from UTI was not justified by the increased risk of performing the circumcision. Much the same for the purported reduction in likelihood of contracting cancer of the penis; while circumcised men are far less likely to develop penile cancer, this is such a rare form of cancer anyway that routine circumcision is not justified as a preventative measure.

So, my personal and professional opinion is that it is not right to circumcise children for non-medical reasons.

Unbiased information about circumcision can be very difficult to come by. Can I suggest reading the Wikipedia entry on circumcision, as it is written from a neutral point of view, and contains a lot of up to date and relevant information.

And this, most recently, about a possible downside to circumcision (for your son's future partner, at least): Male Circumcision Reduces Female Pleasure

[Inanna]

As a moderator I cringe at these threads - as an animated and well researched woman I love them!

I cannot find any evidence to support the routine circumcision of male children. I am quite bewildered that as a society we do not see the removal of part of our sons anatomy as unthinkable. I know they are strong words - and I also accept that others do not see it the same way. I also accept that parents do this with good intention. However, our children are not ours to own - to decide that they don't need a foreskin I think is interesting...

My son is whole as is his father.

There was a segment on 60 minutes a little while ago about male circumcision - my DS then 7 watched it in horror. Asking had I "done that to him.".. I found it interesting to see his reaction to what he was seeing - from his eyes it was outrageous.

[~clover~]

Just thought I'd chuck my worth in.

I personally don't agree with it. We didn't have DS done. DH isn't done either, but that had no bearing on our decision at all.

He was born that way & to me he was born perfect. If they weren't meant to have a foreskin it wouldn't be there.

I believe it is my sons body. If at 18 he wants to have it done than I am giving him the choice. I believe it should be his choice.

IME there is no difference in the number of infections they have. The only time DS was irritated was when I put him in the bath with his sisters & it was full of soap. Now I keep the soap away & we haven't had a problem once.

It doesn't require any extra attention. Whatever you do DO NOT pull the foreskin back to clean it, you could do alot of damage. They will do it in there own time between 3 & 6 years old.

It is attached. The reason you can do damage if you pull it back is coz it is actually attached to them. You could tear & scar them. So cutting it off can't be great.

Uncircumsised men are more sensitive. The skin protects them. If its not there the skin on their penis is exposed so it toughens, which desensitises it.

Male circumsision started for the same reason as female circumsision. To reduce enjoyment of sex & therefore reduce pre marital sex & promiscuity. That in itself was enough for me. Female circumcision is now referred to as 'female genital mutilation'. I don't want to think about my son having sex, but one day it will happen & I would like him to enjoy it. (Not saying that he wouldn't if he was circ'd!!)

The risks. I'd rather my son have an ugly penis than risk a botched circumcision.

My father is circ'd, but my brother isn't. My parents obviously didn't see the point either.

It is a very personal decision & one only you & your DH can make.
There are alot of reasons to leave it, just as there are alot of reasons to do it. Such as religion etc.
My DH grew up being the odd one out as he was uncirc'd & he didn't like it much, but these days DS is in the majority.
DH always said if he had a son he wanted him circ'd, but when it came to it, he couldn't do it. (& I wouldn't have let him!!)
There is quite alot to think about when making the decision. You have to make the right one for you & your family.


Just a warning. There aren't many doctors around who will perfrm this procedure these days, & you may get alot of backlash in the process of finding one.
Not trying to sway your decision, just wanted to warn you.

[mrsmac]

Circumcision is an emotive issue, and one over which many parents hold strongly polarised views one way or another. I encourage all of you to share your views politely and with consideration for the other participants in this thread. It is important to remember that circumcision is a procedure that some surgeons in Australia offer to parents for their babies for purely cosmetic reasons, and they are free to pursue it if they so desire.

Why are you making subjective opinions in your position as mod?? I have a number of Muslim and Jewish friends who would be very insulted to hear that circumcision is PURELY COSMETIC.

[beckles]

i have 3 sons all uncircumcised, my DH is circed. My boys feel sorry for my husband for having his 'penis cut'. they have a great relationship and DH's penis being circed and my boys unsnipped makes no difference at all except they feel sorry for him! it is totally unnecessary and you'll find that when your little guy gets to school and does something like swimming where he may see other boys it is very rare to see a snipped penis. HTH
beckles

[Lolli]

Just a warning. There aren't many doctors around who will perfrm this procedure these days, & you may get alot of backlash in the process of finding one.
Not trying to sway your decision, just wanted to warn you.

This is very true. The backlash dh and I copped at antenatal classes would have been offensive enough to make us give them up, if it didn't happen on the last night. Both gp's we saw (I lost the first referral- baby brain) were very against it and most of the appointment was spent justifying our desicion.
That being said, once it was done, we only had support from friends and family.
MumInTraining, if you do decide to get this done, ask around and find a specialist in your area with a good reputation, who is willing to talk through any concerns you have, and who has some empathy for the the emotive nature of the procedure they are undertaking.
Personally, I would also recomend finding one who does it before the six week mark, rather than after the one year mark (for the reasons I mentioned in my original post- having the baby go under general anesthetic, rather than local, increases the risk of any surgery).

And MrsMac- Amen to that!