Feedback please?

[Ezz]

The Situation:
DS sleeps really well at night (he generally sleeps 10pm - 6am, waking up twice, but will go straight back to sleep if you put his dummy in). During the day, he will only do 40min sleeps in his cot (but will sleep 2-3 hours if I hold him, or wear him in the sling). So, I figure it's a problem with being able to resettle himself after a sleep cycle (40 mins). I usually put him to sleep by rocking him (until he is settled, or lightly asleep) with a dummy in, then patting him in the cot until he is properly asleep.
I called Tressillian last night & they told me to ditch the dummy, stop patting him to sleep, and make sure that he is awake when I put him in the cot. I don't think that I want to give up the dummy, because it works so well at night time (so quick to resettle DS back to sleep).

So, I've been trying to work out a plan for teaching DS to self-settle a bit during the day. I'm looking for some feedback/suggestions...

The plan:
* Cuddle DS until he's quiet, but get him into the cot before he is asleep (avoiding the temptation to just keep cuddling!! - which seems so easy at the time...!).
* Give DS the dummy & walk outside the room (fortunately my computer is right outside his room ).
* Keep going in & giving pats/putting dummy back in as needed (ie. each time grizzling starts).
* Keep going for 20-30mins, then give up if it doesn't work & just cuddle him to sleep.

[~Trish~]

Ezz, your plan sounds great! I pretty much do what you do for my DS and no, I can't ditch the dummy either, it is my only resettling tool!

Perseverence will pay off in the long run so if you stick with your plan you will end up with a great sleeper.

Best of luck!

[Bathsheba]

Gee, is that what Tresillian say? For a 2 month old baby? I'd say you could give that a go from about 6 months... just my thoughts though.

At 2 months I usually BFed to sleep every time. Put them down in their cradles when they were in a deep sleep... or co-slept.

What sometimes works is popping them in their cots awake and doing something in their rooms like folding clothes or nappies. They might complain for a while but I would just go over and sit down on the floor beside the cot (this makes them go down if they can sit or stand) and sing. Then I would finish the song and return to my task.... over and over again. I did this from when they were about 10 months old but I guess it could work if they were younger.

Dummies; 2 of mine had them, my last didn't want a bar of it. I don't think they are that bad... you just do what works.

[mrsr]

I had loads of trouble with Jack sleeping during the day - he was doing exactly the same as your little one Ezz (Jack is now 8 weeks)...but have finally got him pulling 2-3 hours at a stretch for the last couple of weeks. I don't and haven't used a dummy...my routine is - and it doesn't change... bf and as soon as he comes off the breast and those eyes start to close, even the tiniest bit...we go straight to his room, turn on the cd player (same music all the time), wrap him up, kiss on the cheek then straight into bed, tuck him in and leave. Sometimes he protests a little, sometimes he'll cry for a few minutes, sometimes not at all...and he drifts off to sleep. I also hear him cry about an hour in...I let him go...and he re-settles.

[Ezz]

Bathsheba - It depends on who you speak to at Tresillian. I called up when DS was 2 weeks & they advocated controlled crying (at 2 weeks!!). I tried it once & cried as much as DS did - never again!!

mrsr - I have had the same routine since DS was about 3 weeks old (change nappy, wrap, soft music, dim lights, etc) - it used to work great (in fact, I posted about it several times because it was working so well!)! But just in the past week, he has stopped sleeping longer than 40 mins (PS - how boring does it get listening to the same CD 4 times a day )

I'm in the middle of my second attempt for today. I don't know how long I can keep this up! The first attempt I ended up having to cuddle him to sleep after trying to get him to self-settle for 20 mins. Then I put him in the cot, he slept for 40 mins & was wide awake again. I tried re-settling him in the cot (for 20 mins again), then ended up letting him sleep on my chest for an hour and a half. I know it's going to take a week or two, but I don't know if I have the patience!

[MistyFying]

Ezz he's still really little.... go with your gut instinct. Maybe he still really needs those special Mummy cuddles to send him off to sleep

[Cally]

Ezz - DD went through a stage where she was only sleeping for 45 minutes at a time, she was certainly fitting in a lot of naps during the day! I tried resettling her because I knew she was still tired when she woke up, but found I couldn't. Anyway, after about 2-3 weeks she went back to good daytime sleeps. HTH

[Ezz]

Misty - It's not that I mind cuddling him (I love it, in fact ), but the problem comes after 45 mins in the cot when he can't get back to sleep. He sleeps really well in the hug-a-bub, but I can't wear him all day (he's almost 8kg!). If I pick him up from the cot (after the 45 min wake-up), he goes straight to sleep in my arms! (but then wakes up if I try to put him back in the cot)

Cally - That gives me hope that maybe it will improve? Did you do anything differently to help her start to settle?

[BekZ]

Ezz - If he wakes up after 45 mins try and re-settle whilst he is in the cot. If he won't settle pick him up and cuddle him back to sleep. Eventually he'll be able to extend this sleep. Try not to talk to much or make eye contact. I am having the same issues with Loren...It is hard work.

[mrsmac]

Ezz, Ds and I went and stayed at Tresillian when he was 12 months and they let him keep his dummy even then so don't worry about the dummy. He is so little and sleeping so well at night that I would do what works during the day.

[Willow]

I called up when DS was 2 weeks & they advocated controlled crying

I am really surprised by this. Tresillian do not advocate controlled crying, maybe back in the day but not anymore. They do believe that babies cry as part of the settling process but in my experience always say to listen to your instincts and your baby and would never advocate leaving a distressed baby to cry itself to sleep, especially at 2 weeks!! I called often during DS's first few weeks because he was very unsettled and I was always told to do whatever worked (cuddles, sling, co-sleeping) and to try to get a baby this young to self settle was crazy!

The first thing I wanted to say is that this is very, very common in young babies. It's awful and draining and hard work but as Trish and Bek both said, with consistent resettling he will eventually understand that it's not time to be awake yet and will learn to resettle himself for longer sleeps.

[Ezz]

Willow - Nice cloth pic . Yeah - I don't think the CC advice was particularly helpful!! But I'm pretty sure that's what she instructed me to do (wait outside for 2 minutes while he cried, then go in, comfort, then go outside & let him cry for 2 minutes etc). The one I spoke to last night was different - she told me to go in each time he fussed & settle him.

MrsMac - Thanks! That makes me feel better

Bek - Yeah, that's what I've been doing. Still haven't been able to successfully re-settle in the cot. I try for 20 mins, then give up & go lie on the couch with him (thank goodness I only have one - it must be hard work for you!)

[Smoke Jaguar]

Nothing like consistency in advice...not! I've heard these things about Tresillian staff advice
I have no idea what the notion of putting the baby to sleep whilst awake is based on. It has no basis in research and really, do you go to bed whilst you are still wide awake? Do you go to sleep easily if you are wide awake? I know for my own part, I need to do something that sends me off to sleep first - wear myself out with reading or housework (don't recommend the latter!), or sex...funnily enough, this activity is closely related to BFing, as it involves the same hormones - the ones that promote love and...sleep! This is why cuddling your baby in a sling sends baby off to sleep, it's a close comfort activity that promotes sleep and security.
I do hear you about your baby getting heavy in the sling, and this makes it harder. Have you tried sleeping your baby in your bed, by lying down beside him when you take him out of your arms/sling? At two months, there's not much likelihood of him rolling off if he's in the middle of the bed, I think I recall (!!).
My DS didn't sleep for too long, either, for months on end, and he got easier and easier to transfer out of the sling and into the bassinett, then to the bed. We didn't have the sling from day one, we got that at about 4 weeks, so there was an adjustment period there again, and the HAB became our best friend and sanity saver
ETA: I wasn't shy with the dummy, either - DS still uses one at night and for daysleeps cos he probably feels like he's still on the boob that way!

[BekZ]

It is hard work coupled with bfing issues I am a zombie most days. Some times I find moving Loren to a different place to sleep helps. For instance I put her down to sleep in her cot, and if she wakes after a short time and the norm settling technique doesn't work I will put her in her rocker or on my bed to finish the sleep.

All tresillian suggestions have not worked with this bub either.

[mrsmac]

Nothing like consistency in advice...not! I've heard these things about Tresillian staff advice

I hear you on that one!! When we did the 5 day stay there different nurses told us different things depending on which shift it was LOL

[Ezz]

Mayaness - I agree, it would be hard to put him to sleep when he is wide awake - but I always wait for his tired signs (yawning, sucking his fists, jerky limb movements).
When you wore your DS to sleep, did he wake up after a sleep cycle once you put him in the bassinette?

Bek - Thanks for the idea about a change in location! I'll give that a go if I can't resettle him today. Sounds like things are still pretty challenging at your place :hugs:

[Willow]

Ezz - I have occasionally come across some pretty useless advice on the helpline, but the nurse we've been seeing at the Tresillian centre here is wonderful, fully promotes gentle settling techniques and actually bags out some of her colleagues who are a bit old school and still promote cc because they're not supposed to anymore! She was actually talking to me about the need for them to mainstream their policies and practices etc so that there wasn't so much conflicting advice. All of the nurses at our day stay seemed to be very focused on the psychological impact on the babies (and the poor mums!) and promoted gentle settling. It's a shame not all of them are the same.

The other thing I wanted to add was that I was told that you probably won't see much of an improvement in his ability to move from one sleep cycle to the next (ie sleep longer than 45mins without resettling) till about the 12-14 week mark. Developmentally they are much more able to grasp the concept of resettling at this age. I have a friend with 4 babies (x2 twins) and we've found this to be true with all 6 of our kids! They were all 45 min wonders. After weeks of resettling and me being really consistent with settling techniques, DS is now often able to resettle himself and will sleep for 1.5-2hrs at a time without a peep.

Keep up the good work, it is so hard and I've definitely had days/weeks where I've struggled with it and there's been lots of tears (from me, not him ) but it's so worth it when you reap the rewards!

[Ezz]

Willow - I'm so glad you added that. He's 11 weeks now - so I guess I might not see improvements for a while. I have realised that he's actually pretty good at self-settling initially (he'll be asleep within 15 mins if I just keep putting that dummy back in!) - but he really hates the resettle!! I find I can't resettle him in the cot at all & I just give up after 5-10 mins because he's crying & won't settle. Even if I pick him up to calm him down, he cries as soon as I put him in the cot. So at the moment, he is sleeping on my lap, on a pillow!

After weeks of resettling and me being really consistent with settling techniques, DS is now often able to resettle himself and will sleep for 1.5-2hrs at a time without a peep.

Congrats! What did you do to resettle him? Did you have a point at which you would give up on the resettle & just hold him?