gentle solutions - do they REALLY work?

[mihnister]

Thanks for all the replies. The encouragement is great . I think I have a few weeks to come up with a non-rocking settling method before my back can't cope, so I can keep trying the gentle methods for a bit.

I called Tresillian back and say "i'm not going to do this". The suggestion was to try letting him grizzle and just not let it get to a cry. I feel much better being for honest with them about what I am prepared to do. the problem with the grizzle approach is that his grizzles only last about 4 minutes till they turn into what I call a cry. So I am going to work on making his cot a "happy place" as suggested, and once we are there, I'll try again. I figure I should only try it when I am willing to be consistent or he will start thinking "everytime I go into my cot I will just complain till mum picks me up".

I"m also going to get castors to put on his cot, so I can rock him in his cot. He might like it, worth a try anyway. The patting etc just doesn't work on him. I've tried holding his hand, he seems to like that.

i'm also buying a pinky mckay book.

And, I am going to not try and rock him to sleep for a nap for any longer than 25 min. If he takes more rocking than that, we're going for a walk instead. Kinder on my back.

BTW, the hot-water bottle trick is still great at night, but no dice during the day.

[Liz]

I agree that it depends on what you mean by 'work'. I still have to 'put' DS to bed, and he still requires a breastfeed before sleep (no longer falls asleep on the boob). He's been a pretty bad sleeper, waking frequently, so I wouldn't say the gentle methods have 'worked' because they were never intended to teach him anything anyway, but I believe that he's just being him.. and they DO get it eventually on their own without being taught. Lately he's been sleeping full nights.. and having one nap a day up to 2 hrs. It's a dream come true! LOL! He does come in to our bed some nights still, but we have no prob with that.

However, every baby is different. I can't try to 'put' DD to sleep, as she just gets more and more worked up. DD wants to be left alone to go to sleep (which is great) but I have to time it right. If she's overtired, then she ends up screaming in her cot If I pick up her tired cues right, then she just lies there and goes off to sleep.

My definition of gentle methods is really following your instinct and meeting your baby's needs. My DD does grizzle and sometimes cry to sleep.. because any attempt on my part to pick her up and comfort her just wakes her up too much and ruins everything LOL. But our methods change all the time too.. just the last few days she's taken to screaming when I leave the room, and grinning at me when I return (little bugga LMAO). Sometimes all she needs is some light strokes down her nose and a little song to calm her down and she's off to lalaland. We just do whatever works at the time.

Non-gentle methods are where you're trying to make the baby fit into something that goes against their nature or yours. They're babies, and they're dependant on us. You're doing a great job. Pfft to all those horrible nurses out there (and there are sooooo many) who make intuitive mums doubt themselves.

I guess i would say in answer to your question, that gentle methods may not necessarily 'work' if what you are wanting is set bedtimes and routines. With gentle methods, expect to be with your baby, and to be on call for your baby. Take every lazy option there is - take them to bed with you, put them to sleep in the pram if need be, wear them.. whatever! Nothing forms a lifelong habit. I won't say it doesn't create habits, coz in our experience it has, but the habits change and they do outgrow them If you're happy to meet your babies needs, then there's no problem

[Belle with the bump]

I had the same problem with my Toby, he always wanted to be rocked but he is a heavy boy ( 6 months and 9.5kgs) So in the meantime whilst I worked out what approach I was going to take, I bounced on a fitball with him in my arms, he seemed to love that and I was working out at the same time.
I got some advise from a sleep nurse that came to my house and I said I wanted the most gentle approach she had. We left him in his cot, never left his side though. When he would start getting upset we would pick him up and tell him that it was ok and that it was nite nite time. When he was quiet, we would then put him down again... we kept doing this until he fell asleep. Trust me, it is full on for the first 3 days but then the bub realises " oh this is how I get to sleep now " now it is not perfect but sometimes we put him in his cot with a comforter and in his sleepingbag and close the door and puts himself to sleep, but other days we have to just place a hand on him till falls asleep. I never thought we would get to this stage but it did work.
I was so sick of everyone telling me to control cry, I even went to a GP to get advise and their answer was to control cry for a week or so.... I was sooo angry ... Thank god for this Forum....
Goodluck

[mihnister]

Thanks again for the replies. Here is an update. Sorry it is so long, I am hoping it might help someone else.

SUCCESS!!!!!!! My little darling is going to sleep on his own in his cot for most of his sleeps. He still seems to want to feed-to-sleep at the middle of the night feeds, but for all his naps and for bedtime, I can go through our little sleep routine, put him in his cot, he might make a few sweet little noises to himself and then he?s out.

God I love him. I am so darn happy I could cry.

I ended up following pretty much the method Belle suggested above.

I had a sleep nurse visit me, from Hope Cottage in Ashfield. She actually took the time to get to know my baby, tried to settle him herself, and after assessing his temperament gave me a plan.

One of the best bits of this was that she validated my instinct that this was a very volatile bub who needs his mum. and leaving him to cry for extended periods was not going to work.

We go through sleep routine (wrap, womb-music, lights, music-box) put him in cot and left him for at least one minute. If he was quiet, leave him in cot. If he got upset, pick up him, rock / cuddle till calm, but not for more than 5 minutes. Put him back in cot for at least one minute. Repeat. I could use my own definition of ?upset?.
Her suggestion for if it took longer than 5 mins to calm him was to put him back down in cot for another minute even if crying ? but fortunately it rarely took longer than 5 minutes, and when it did, I was convinced he was too upset for the plan to work and just resorted to rocking him to sleep at that point.

After trying this together, she said normally she would say, don?t give up. But she listened to his cry and said, this baby is not ever going to cry himself to sleep or self-settle while crying, he is too upset, and once he gets worked up he doesn't calm easily. So, if he was not settled within 20-30 minutes, give up and rock/feed to sleep.

So, this plan did call for some crying. A whole minute at a time. I think this still qualifies as gentle parenting, but that is for you to judge for yourself. my assessment of my baby was that I had no choice other than to do this or give up, because initially he would go into crying mode pretty much instantly he was left in the cot and did not respond to patting, singing, etc. I felt that at 4 and a half months, it was not good that he regarded being in his cot for barely a minute, even with me by his side stroking his forehead and talking to him, as a class-one emergency. Consequently, for the first day or two of this, there was some crying. But over just a few days, the crying rapidly progressed from being ?distressed OMG the world is ending? and moved to ?this isn?t fair mum? and then got to ?idle whinge? and then, stopped. I even abandoned the plan completely at times when I thought he was overtired, or just working himself up. After the first few days, I have been able to go to his rescue and pick him up and cuddle him after a minute of grizzling, so no more crying at all. I hope I never have to do that again, because even a minute felt like an eternity.

(I can?t believe that first nurse who said I should let him cry for 15 minutes. My baby would have been so distraught at that point and I would have been too. Just cruel.)

At first it was just one nap, he fell asleep on his own first go. Then it was two naps in a row. Then three in a row. And it has now been 4 days where he hasn?t needed to be rocked at all. I started 10 days ago. He is happy as larry, and his naps are getting longer.

I think all the no-cry suggestions I did helped make this work (key words/phrases, routines, womb-music, etc). I think I had to give my baby opportunities to fall asleep in his cot. If I could have my time over again, I would put him in his cot at least once each sleep before resorting to the rock-to-sleep and perhaps I could have avoided this.

All the advice about listening to my own parenting instinct was spot on. I wouldn?t advocate this particular solution as being for everyone. I wouldn?t have gone to the extreme of even one minute of crying if I wasn't desperate (9kg baby? mother going back to work soon?I hated the thought of him being in childcare, totally unable to self settle, with carers who wouldn?t be able to rock a baby for 20-30 minutes... he would have cried till he passed out )

fingers crossed that this continues

thank you all I am so grateful

[Karina]

Woohoo so glad to read that it has worked for you.

Yes, I do also think gentle approaches work. My little girl is 14 months now and up until 10 months ol, she was waking every 2 hours overnight expecting booby. Everyone was telling me "you have to let her cry or she'll never learn", "stop breastfeeding her - put her on formula and she'll sleep", and other similar things. People would tell me "its ok to let her cry for 20 minutes. Then go and settle her. Then if she cries again, let her go for 25 minutes. I just cant do it though. It didnt help that DH would stand there and agree with the person telling me this, even though he knew full well that I did not want to do it.

When she was 10 months old and I was preparing to go back to work (so in other words, I needed sleep at night) I'd managed to convince DH to HELP me with settling her over night (usually he just rolled over and put the doona over his head and pretend to be asleep or that he couldnt hear her). He'd go in and pat her bum or rub her back and hum or shoosh quietly. She'd settle really quickly, say 3 minutes. It took just over a week for her to start sleeping 8 - 10 hours over night without waking.

We did co-sleep for a while, but stopped when she learned to crawl as she had a few incidents where she's wake up and crawl off the bed, or she'd wake up and poke my face and pull my hair and DH hated that she was in bed with us (he is more a fan of CC). I still breastfeed her before bed time and then put her in her cot. 99% of the time she is still awake when I put her in the cot. I then walk out of the room. sometimes she'll start making noise (babbling loudly) but then she'll nod off. Other times she'll start crying. If crying, one of us goes in and pats her bum. I know DH just pats her bum, but I also find that stroking her forehead/hair, rubbing her back gently or just having my hand on her back works nicely.

I've also got 2 of the Pinky McKay books and they really are great and did make me feel more confident. Its good to bbe able to read a parenting book that doesnt suggest controlled crying or other cry-it-out methods.

[Jus]

Hey fantastic - so glad your little man is finally doing some sleeping action. You must feel like a new person.

I just wanted to add what's working for us at the moment. Last week I completely lost my confidence about what I was doing for my DD. Got stressed because she's started night-waking again, got advice from every man & his dog (mostly conflicting, although all well-meant and kind), wondered should I lose the dummy, how long should naps be etc???? I was driving myself mad, so decided I needed a plan so I could feel confident again (I know this isn't for everyone, but it's what I needed so I could feel in control and confident that I'm meeting DD's needs).
So, we've pretty much followed Baby Whisperer's pattern for the day (not strict, just the rhythm /order things happen in), but am now putting her onto the 4 month schedule, gradually. The exciting bit (and hope I'm not talking too soon) is that her strategies, which are a little similar are working - patting, pick up/put down - pick up baby as soon as starts to cry, put down as soon as calm, are working, in just a few days - we're helping baby realise that 5 am isn't a great time to start the day, and restructuring her day & teaching her to nap longer so that she can be up & enjoy a good bit of time (was only lasting an hour, then napping) and sleep at sensible times (night. - ok, this is mostly for my benefit, but i figure happy mummy = happy baby). It's going to take a few weeks to sort out the pattern (again, I like this because it's a more gentle approach, and I feel like I'm teaching her to sleep, which is what she needs). I agree with you Karina & Mihnster, leaving my baby to cry would just result in two bawling messes. & DH having to clean up after!
I just wanted to let people know that there are other ways than CC, and if you can't get access to a good nurse/sleep school to help you thru this book is great IMO. I know it's not for everyone, but I have found it so helpful that I wanted to share in case it helps someone else!
sleepy dust to everyone!

[Jus]

Just a further note, for the benefit of others,
we spent all last week trying to put DD on the 4 hour Baby Whisperer routine, and it didn't really work out. She ended up overtired & cranky & refusing to feed as a result, so am now going back to a more gentle amble towards that routine (if she even ends up there).

Our main aim now is to extend daytime sleeps and to get rid of the dummy (gently if possible).

Am trying to regain some confidence in hoping I know DD better than the books, but it's been a hard couple of weeks.

[Smoke Jaguar]

You DO know your DD better than the books, you just gotta find which brain folder it's stored in Your DD will thank you for it, too, and you'll help each other in the process You're on the right track!

[Jus]

Thanks for the encouragement - I've been finding it all hard going at the moment!
I'll hang in there...

[MantaRay]

Jus, TBH I am not a huge fan of the Baby Whisperer. Some of her ideas are ok but others I am not so keen on. If you are wanting some books which follow more gentle approaches, I highly recommend Pinky Mackay's books and also the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley (and there is a toddler version of this too).

You will get there hun, please try not to get discouraged. I know that it is easy to say. But between the two boys I have been through all sorts of sleeping problems - not sleeping at all during the day, awake all night etc, and we have come through all of them. It does take time, but you will get there in the end. Best of luck to you. Keep us updated.

[Jus]

Thanks MantaRay, funnily enough I just started readaing Pinky McKay Parenting by Heart & it's making me wish I'd done some things more gently (not feeling guilty about lots of cuddles, having her in bed with me etc.) & also came across an Elizabeth Pantley strategy for getting rid of the dummy which we're about to try as that seems to be part of the night waking. Who knows what the real cause is!

I guess when you get so tired you can't think straight, it's hard to keep things in perspective! I really appreciate the encouragement.

Took DD back to bed with me this morning, and we both slept better !