No cry sleep solution sleep school

[~kellie~]

Hi everyone,
I went to a Tweddle sleep school today and wasnt very impressed, mainly cause I dont want my DD to cry herself to sleep... are there any sleep schools that use methods other than controlled crying?

[Willow]

Bugger Kellie, sorry you didn't find it helpful.

Never heard of Tweedle, but I'm surprised to hear that they still use controlled crying. We went to Tresillian and I was pretty impressed. They are very focused on mental health these days and yes, DS had a bit of a whinge but as soon as he sounded like he was getting a bit upset, we were straight in there. NO crying himself to sleep at all and in fact they actually talked me through why that is such a bad idea (of course I already knew all of that thanks to BB!!).

I have heard that other Tresillian centres aren't as good as ours either - it's a shame when there is so much inconsistency.

I hope someone can recommend somewhere better for you guys.

[~Trish~]

That's a shame they advocate CC Kellie. I didn't think sleep schools did that any more.

Willow - What did they tell you to do with L when he would start really crying?

[~kellie~]

they didnt actually call it controlled crying.
what i was instructed to do was put tahlia in her cot without wrapping and walk out. If she just grizzles and cries (but not really cry) leave her. If the crying gets really loud, wait 1 minute and walk in and pat her till she is calm, and then walk out. You then have to keep repeating this process until she stops crying, increasing the intervals you leave her for.

Is this considered controlled crying? It absolutely broke my heart to hear her cry like that (I've only heard her cry like that once before when she had needles) and I also ended up in tears.

[BellyBelly]

Did they call it controlled comforting instead

Sorry there is no such thing as a gentle sleep school, I can tell you now. Tweedle has a bad rep for being ungentle! In fact the stories Pinky has told me from some of the sleep schools horrify me and from what I have seen with my horrid two weeks at one.

Just doesn't exist - but I know Pinky dreams of setting one up with some good friends of hers. So expensive tho.

[Willow]

Kellie - that's controlled crying, whatever they called it!!

Trish - If L started crying, they told me to pick him up and cuddle and comfort him until he settled and then try to put him down again. He was pretty good so I don't know what would have happened if he'd gotten upset but there were 4 other babies in the unit and I can tell you in all honestly, none of them were left to cry. If they were crying, their mothers were with them comforting them. My nurse told me to follow my instincts - if I felt that he needed to be comforted, to comfort him. Pretty obvious stuff really!

BUT like I said, I have heard that not all the nurses at Tresillian share the same philosophies and there can be inconsistency but my nurse was into gentle methods all the way and my experience was really positive, so sorry Kelly, I'd have to disagree with you on this one based on my personal experience, but I do acknowledge that not all sleep schools, and not even all nurses within Tresillian are the same. Maybe I was just lucky?

There is also one nurse in particular on the help line who is AWESOME - really into baby wearing, and even told me to co-sleep! I was a bit surprised by that and whenever I strike her on the helpline I tell my DH - "I got the rogue hippy again!" LOL...

[~kellie~]

so Willow, how do you go about putting him to sleep then?
Do you put him in his cot wide awake when he is showing tired signs, and then pick him up as soon as he cries? and then keep repeating the process?

[BellyBelly]

What was it they actually told you / asked you to do? Great that they didn't leave him to cry for a second. If more sleep schools can adopt the mental health recommendations then that would be ace. I think women need more support though, they need a village, then we could prevent all this in the first place

[Willow]

I agree Kelly. I went because I needed support and a bit of confidence in myself restored, not because I had no idea what I was doing IYKWIM?

We really didn't do anything that I wouldn't do at home or wasn't already doing. It was just the assurance that my settling methods were spot on and that eventually if I responded to my baby's signals appropriately and immediately and was there to reassure him and comfort him if he woke that eventually that would build his trust in me and that would make him secure enough to fall asleep happily on his own which is exactly what has happened. He is sleeping great now. He has his bad days like they all do but the stress has been removed from the equation which makes it so much easier for me to enjoy my baby.

Kellie - initially I watched for his tired signs and would hold him and rock him etc till he became sleepy and then I put him down. If he cried when I put him down, I would pick him back up and repeat the process until he was happy and went off to sleep. That might have meant me talking to him (and I might add here that our nurse told us to ignore anyone who went on about the 'no eye contact' crap - did they tell you not to make eye contact?), patting him, ssshhhhing etc. Once he became comfortable with that process (and it took a few weeks) I could put him down fully awake and stay with him until he was happy to go off to sleep. If not, I would repeat the same process as above until he settled and fell asleep. These days I pop him in his cot wrapped and pretty much walk out and he falls asleep without a sound. Occasionally he will grizzle or protest for a second when I close the door but if it goes on for longer than say...10-15 seconds? I know he's upset so I go back in and comfort him. Rarely happens these days though.

The thing to remember with this sort of settling is it's very hands on and intensive and it so it can get tiring and therefore stressful. We were told that if it ever got distressing for myself or DS to give up trying to settle him, pick him up and give him lots of cuddles etc till he settled and to try again later. It's much easier to leave a baby in a room to cry themselves to sleep (well for some people I guess, listening to my babies cry has always made me feel sick to my stomach) because it doesn't require much of you I guess?

I wish you were in Sydney, I would tell you to go and see this woman, she was really great

I'm happy to answer any questions you have and tell you as much as I can if it helps!

[~Trish~]

Amen Kelly! I've been looking on the web all day about overnight waking and everything said to let them cry it out. How can something that goes against my instincts be right?

Willow - I'm glad you were shown to pick up L, that's what I do with K to settle him and then I can put him back down. I thought I might be doing the wrong thing after everything I read today!

Kellie - I wrap K (still) and give him a cuddle until he is drowsy, then I put him down in his cot (still awake, but sleepy) and that works for us. If he cries I pick him up and start again. Usually it works first time now after a lot of persistence.

[mrsmac]

I went to Tresillian at Willoughby and found the nurses were varied in how tough they were. It really saved my sanity though and I am so glad I went.

[~kellie~]

Willow - thankyou so much... that is a great help. I just had another cry about it with my husband, cause they really made me doubt myself today, just because I wanted to comfort my bub, and it shouldn't be like that.
I'm going to give your method a go starting tomorrow, and I already feel more confident about it. And yes, they did say 'no eye contact'.. although when she was crying and I looked down at her she would settle a little and smile.. I dont think there is anything wrong with this as long as I'm still giving her the 'its time to sleep' messages.

Hopefully I can put in some hard work over the next few weeks and then have a bub who is much better at self settling.

Thanks everyone for the replies.. you've made me feel much better

[mrsmac]

Tresillian told me to pick him up too and that I could say soothing things. also they let him keep his dummy which I thought they wouldn't.

[Willow]

Trish - as you know, you and I have had lots of discussions about this and our settling techniques are almost identical. You are doing a wonderful job, you aren't doing anything wrong by listening to your baby! They just need a lot of comfort when they are little, and unfortunately that might mean that we don't get much sleep at times but what do you do? You do your best and remember that eventually they will get it and eventually they will sleep through the night. I think DS has 'got it' a lot earlier than DD did in relation to resettling after a sleep cycle but he still wakes at night and I am happy to feed him and snuggle him and he goes straight back off to sleep. Try not to put so much pressure on yourself for him to sleep through the night babe, it will happen eventually. There is nothing wrong with him and there's nothing wrong with you - you're a great mum! Your consistency will pay off, I promise.

Sorry to hijack your thread Kellie!!

**ETA: Sorry Kellie, missed your last post - that's total crap. When you're upset and looking for some comfort how would you feel if everyone turned their back to you and wouldn't look you in the eye?? It's bizarre! I don't know who ever came up with that theory...I know how upsetting it can be. I spoke to one nurse on the phone that completely undermined my confidence in what I was doing and that night I had a panic attack! It's so not worth it. Give your girl lots of cuddles and trust that with lots of help and comfort from mummy, she will learn to go to sleep on her own eventually.

Oh, before I forget - I would keep wrapping her. This can be a really strong sleeping cue for little ones.

[~Trish~]

Aww thanks Willow . What would I do without ya?

Kellie - I'm so glad you are feeling more confident about comforting Tahlia. It really has worked for us so I can't see how it is wrong. Stay strong and keep at it, we are here for you to support you over the coming days.

[Willow]

Yep - we sure are! Trish and I have been at this for weeks and weeks so we completely understand. But I PROMISE things will improve and you will be amazed at how clever your little girl will be!

[morgan78]

just wanted to agree with Willow on the wrapping - if DD is fighting the sleep as soon as she is wrapped within 5 mins shes out and if she does stir during a sleep cycle i just rewrap, cuddle and back off she goes - took me 2 months to figure this out

[Spring Angel]

Willow: Could you PM that ladies details please hun. Sleeping here has just gone out the window. DS will not settle not matter what we try and it is driving me nuts. We were doing so well and now it is like we are back to square one.

Spring.