animal products, dairy and eggs and such

[krysalyss]

Well soy is fine. Organic soy is best but if you eat soy in normal quantities it has a lot of health benefits. If you are cutting out dairy and egg go for a soy milk with B12.
There are health risks for eating lots of fish with levels of pollution and heavy metals. So eat in moderation if you are going to. As for them being stupid - sorry but that is just perception talking and doesn't represent reality.

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

^^ Well it sort of depends on how you define intelligence, but anyway . . .
The problem with soy is that there's a huge industry behind it, the US produces masses of the stuff so if there actually *is* conclusive evidence that soy increases the risk of cancer, there are commercial interests which are not going to want to let that information get out.

Soy cancer warning | The Daily Telegraph

CANCER patients are being warned to avoid foods rich in soy because they can accelerate the growth of tumours.

The Cancer Council NSW will issue guidelines today, warning about the dangers of high-soy diets and soy supplements for cancer patients and those people in remission from cancer.

At particular risk are people suffering from hormone-dependent cancers, including breast and prostate cancer - the two most common types of cancer in Australia.

Cancer survivors are also being urged to avoid high doses of soy, as they may be more vulnerable to a relapse.

Research has found high consumption of soy products can also limit the effectiveness of conventional medicines used to treat the disease.

"There is evidence to suggest that women with existing breast cancer or past breast cancer should be cautious in consuming large quantities of soy foods or phyto-oestrogen supplements,'' a position statement from the Cancer Council says.

"Women with current or past breast cancer should be aware of the risks of potential tumour growth when taking soy products.

"The Cancer Council does not support the use of health claims on food labels that suggest soy foods or phyto-oestrogens protect against the development of cancer.''

Health experts are particularly concerned that breast-cancer sufferers who take soy or phyto-oestrogen supplements could feed the disease and reduce the effectiveness of their treatment.

Soy, which is present in soy beans, soy milk, tofu, tempeh and some breads, contains phyto-oestrogens that mimic the actions of hormones in the body.

This means it may interfere with cancer drugs such as Tamoxifen, which works by suppressing the female hormone oestrogen.

Men with prostate cancer are also being warned against high soy consumption, as phyto-oestrogens may imitate the male hormone androgen.

Although the Cancer Council has warned against soy supplements, it believes an occasional intake of soy food is still safe for cancer patients.

Cancer Council nutritionist Kathy Chapman said soy supplements could contain dangerously high doses of phyto-oestrogens.

"If you were a woman with breast cancer and thought, 'I'm going to radically change my diet and have very large portions of soy at every meal', it could be a problem,'' Ms Chapman said.

"For someone who has tofu once or twice a week and drinks a bit of soya milk, it's not so much of a problem.''

Soy has earned a reputation as a natural "superfood'' that cuts the risk of breast or prostate cancer, and is commonly included in women's health supplements.

This claim was based on findings that cancer rates were lower in Asia, where soy consumption is high.

But soy would lower the risk of contracting cancer "only a little'', according to the Cancer Council.

"While they may have a protective effect, there is also some evidence that phyto-oestrogens may stimulate the growth of existing hormone-dependent cancers,'' the council's statement said.

The risk of contracting other non-hormone-dependent cancers, including bowel cancer, would be unaffected by soy intake.

The Cancer Council was prompted to investigate the issue after being inundated with questions about the role of soy in cancer patients' diets.

"We felt we were getting a lot of calls on our hotline about this topic,'' Ms Chapman said.

Breast-cancer survivor Susie Musarra was surprised by the new evidence about soy.

The Sydney mother of two was diagnosed five years ago. She followed a healthy diet, containing plenty of fruit and vegetable juices, during chemotherapy treatment.

"It's really confusing, because you get a lot of conflicting information about what to eat,'' she said.
"It's good to have this advice, because it helps you make an informed decision - and the Cancer Council is a reputable source.''

Astrid, what I read was that while they do increase good cholesterol, they also increase all cholesterol overall so they're not that good for you. 2 eggs a week is safe, from what I read. I figure if that's true, I'd rather increase good cholesterol from eating avocado or something.

[christy]

We eat organic tofu every other week or so... The girls love it! But we have it in our stir fry & the girls eat it up.

But that study says that it is bad for cancer patients undergoing treatment? It doesn't talk about those without cancer?

I agree that the soy industry doesn't have the cleanest name at all. In fact its dodgy at bet in some places, thats why we use organic tofu and only once a week.

[tsgirl]

MMmmmmmm avocado ... I'm an avo addict!!

We eat a 90% vegan diet, basically vegan with some fish and the occasional 'oopsie' We don't eat a lot of soy because from my reading large amounts aren't good for you. I use Bonsoy which is non GM, although I'm not suggesting that there aren't other brands that are also non GM. Bonsoy is exxy, but it is awesome tasting and works great in cooking, and seeing as we don't use a lot I don't worry too much about it being $4/L

We occasionally eat tofu, soy ice-cream and other soy products, but overall the amounts aren't large. I've found more and more since we changed our diet that I'm cooking organic food from scratch as it just seems to fit most comfortably with the way we're trying to fuel our bodies.

Agree with christy rice milk is a great alternative. I actually preferred it on cereal to soy when I first went dairy free.

The risks of fish increase with the size of the fish .. sounds weird I know but it has to do with the food chain and their increasing mercury levels. The most likely to have high mercury are swordfish, marlin & shark. There is quite a bit of info on fish in this link Fish and mercury FAQs | NSW Food Authority Government sites aren't necessarily my chosen nutritional advice sites though so if you're paranoid like me you might want to do some wider reading

Oh, and eggs .. curiously I get a hankering for eggs every few months. A poached one with some smoked salmon usually sorts it out!! That's what I mean about 90% vegan ... if my body starts really craving an egg or some fish then I figure I must need something nutritionally so I listen. For the most part tho it's perfectly healthy (and happy) eating a wide range of vegetables, legumes, whole grains, fruits & nuts.

[luna moth]

Oh, and eggs .. curiously I get a hankering for eggs every few months. A poached one with some smoked salmon usually sorts it out!! That's what I mean about 90% vegan ... if my body starts really craving an egg or some fish then I figure I must need something nutritionally so I listen.

People have believed this for a long time, but studies have disproven it. My belief is that animal products are addictive, and it's the addiction talking, not some nutritional need. Go for 100%!

Rice milk has no calcium unless fortified. Soy milk also has little, but most commercially available brands are fortified, some with B12 as well as calcium. Many are non-GM.

I don't think there's any fish you can eat without guilt, stupid or not, unless you catch and kill it yourself.

Cut out eggs. Only girl chickens make eggs, which means 50% of them are killed in their infancy. Nice.

Lay it out straight with your stepdad. I was really worried about telling MIL when I had gone vegan, but she's fine with it. I just turn up armed with food - soy milk, nuttelex, tahini, nooch, and she sits back and lets me make myself at home in her kitchen.

Ahhhh, who let the militant hormonal vegan loose in this forum?

[tsgirl]

I was really worried about telling MIL when I had gone vegan, but she's fine with it. I just turn up armed with food - soy milk, nuttelex, tahini, nooch, and she sits back and lets me make myself at home in her kitchen.

Geez can I borrow ur MIL?? Mine took great pride in 'hiding' things in the food she prepared for me until I just stopped eating at her house. She won't even let her own (vegan) daughter prepare food in her kitchen so my chances are less than zero! It really gets me irate that she insists on serving DP "real food" (ie:meat & chicken) whenever we go there for dinner even though he has repeatedly told her of his dietary changes. Of course, if he eats it she will keep serving it to him, but it still frustrates me no end. Oh, and the best bit? She doesn't eat red meat herself and cooks her own vegetarian meals ... but is so passive aggressive about the dietary decisions of her DD & partner & girls & DS & I.

Phew, u really got me going there snugglybean ... sorry for the vent (but truly I will swap u MILs!!)

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

Christy, my thinking is that if soy can increase the risk of cancer worsening, then it can't be good for anyone. Because of the huge invested commercial interest, I doubt that we're getting all the information.

tsgirl, I remember the fish thing from when I was preg, and I wouldn't eat swordfish (some species are threatened) or shark.

snugglybean, I don't think it's fair to tell people they should feel guilty for eating fish, animal products or anything else for that matter. If I choose not to eat something for moral reasons, it's *my* choice. Our society is set up in such a way that eating animals and animal products is acceptable and telling people they should feel bad for that is counter-productive. It would be much better to try to improve the conditions of the animals themselves (such as cage hens and live animal exports) rather than pushing your opinions onto others. No one likes that, it just alienates people.

On a similar note, I randomly became a raw vegan I feel so much healthier after having stopped eating meat, I decided to go full-throttle for a couple of months. I used to be a vegan and now that I can cook and prepare food, it seems the perfect time to start up again. I started yesterday and so far it's really good and not as limiting as you might think. I bought some steel-cut oats which I soak in warm water rather than cook and add fresh fruit to, and the rest of the day is salads and such. Good stuff. Though i'm eating more than 2 serves of fruit, which is fine since that's my only vsource of sugar (apart from what's naturally occuring in vegies and nuts).

[krysalyss]

my thinking is that if soy can increase the risk of cancer worsening, then it can't be good for anyone.

The study is really looking at basically overdosing yourself on soy (eg. soy supplements) not in normal dietary amounts. Soy in normal amounts can be very beneficial. In fact the phytooestrogens themselves are thought to help protect against some cancers such as prostate, breast and bowel. So in itself, soy is not a carcinogen. Most foods in excess can be dangerous for example large amount of red meat can increase your risk of bowel cancer.

I don't personally think what Snugglybean said is offensive, especially considering your original post about fish being stupid which I do find offensive. I have no wish to get into a debate about the eating of meat but am supportive of considerate discussion about it.