animal products, dairy and eggs and such

[tsgirl]

MMmmmmmm avocado ... I'm an avo addict!!

We eat a 90% vegan diet, basically vegan with some fish and the occasional 'oopsie' We don't eat a lot of soy because from my reading large amounts aren't good for you. I use Bonsoy which is non GM, although I'm not suggesting that there aren't other brands that are also non GM. Bonsoy is exxy, but it is awesome tasting and works great in cooking, and seeing as we don't use a lot I don't worry too much about it being $4/L

We occasionally eat tofu, soy ice-cream and other soy products, but overall the amounts aren't large. I've found more and more since we changed our diet that I'm cooking organic food from scratch as it just seems to fit most comfortably with the way we're trying to fuel our bodies.

Agree with christy rice milk is a great alternative. I actually preferred it on cereal to soy when I first went dairy free.

The risks of fish increase with the size of the fish .. sounds weird I know but it has to do with the food chain and their increasing mercury levels. The most likely to have high mercury are swordfish, marlin & shark. There is quite a bit of info on fish in this link Fish and mercury FAQs | NSW Food Authority Government sites aren't necessarily my chosen nutritional advice sites though so if you're paranoid like me you might want to do some wider reading

Oh, and eggs .. curiously I get a hankering for eggs every few months. A poached one with some smoked salmon usually sorts it out!! That's what I mean about 90% vegan ... if my body starts really craving an egg or some fish then I figure I must need something nutritionally so I listen. For the most part tho it's perfectly healthy (and happy) eating a wide range of vegetables, legumes, whole grains, fruits & nuts.

[luna moth]

Oh, and eggs .. curiously I get a hankering for eggs every few months. A poached one with some smoked salmon usually sorts it out!! That's what I mean about 90% vegan ... if my body starts really craving an egg or some fish then I figure I must need something nutritionally so I listen.

People have believed this for a long time, but studies have disproven it. My belief is that animal products are addictive, and it's the addiction talking, not some nutritional need. Go for 100%!

Rice milk has no calcium unless fortified. Soy milk also has little, but most commercially available brands are fortified, some with B12 as well as calcium. Many are non-GM.

I don't think there's any fish you can eat without guilt, stupid or not, unless you catch and kill it yourself.

Cut out eggs. Only girl chickens make eggs, which means 50% of them are killed in their infancy. Nice.

Lay it out straight with your stepdad. I was really worried about telling MIL when I had gone vegan, but she's fine with it. I just turn up armed with food - soy milk, nuttelex, tahini, nooch, and she sits back and lets me make myself at home in her kitchen.

Ahhhh, who let the militant hormonal vegan loose in this forum?

[tsgirl]

I was really worried about telling MIL when I had gone vegan, but she's fine with it. I just turn up armed with food - soy milk, nuttelex, tahini, nooch, and she sits back and lets me make myself at home in her kitchen.

Geez can I borrow ur MIL?? Mine took great pride in 'hiding' things in the food she prepared for me until I just stopped eating at her house. She won't even let her own (vegan) daughter prepare food in her kitchen so my chances are less than zero! It really gets me irate that she insists on serving DP "real food" (ie:meat & chicken) whenever we go there for dinner even though he has repeatedly told her of his dietary changes. Of course, if he eats it she will keep serving it to him, but it still frustrates me no end. Oh, and the best bit? She doesn't eat red meat herself and cooks her own vegetarian meals ... but is so passive aggressive about the dietary decisions of her DD & partner & girls & DS & I.

Phew, u really got me going there snugglybean ... sorry for the vent (but truly I will swap u MILs!!)

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

Christy, my thinking is that if soy can increase the risk of cancer worsening, then it can't be good for anyone. Because of the huge invested commercial interest, I doubt that we're getting all the information.

tsgirl, I remember the fish thing from when I was preg, and I wouldn't eat swordfish (some species are threatened) or shark.

snugglybean, I don't think it's fair to tell people they should feel guilty for eating fish, animal products or anything else for that matter. If I choose not to eat something for moral reasons, it's *my* choice. Our society is set up in such a way that eating animals and animal products is acceptable and telling people they should feel bad for that is counter-productive. It would be much better to try to improve the conditions of the animals themselves (such as cage hens and live animal exports) rather than pushing your opinions onto others. No one likes that, it just alienates people.

On a similar note, I randomly became a raw vegan I feel so much healthier after having stopped eating meat, I decided to go full-throttle for a couple of months. I used to be a vegan and now that I can cook and prepare food, it seems the perfect time to start up again. I started yesterday and so far it's really good and not as limiting as you might think. I bought some steel-cut oats which I soak in warm water rather than cook and add fresh fruit to, and the rest of the day is salads and such. Good stuff. Though i'm eating more than 2 serves of fruit, which is fine since that's my only vsource of sugar (apart from what's naturally occuring in vegies and nuts).

[krysalyss]

my thinking is that if soy can increase the risk of cancer worsening, then it can't be good for anyone.

The study is really looking at basically overdosing yourself on soy (eg. soy supplements) not in normal dietary amounts. Soy in normal amounts can be very beneficial. In fact the phytooestrogens themselves are thought to help protect against some cancers such as prostate, breast and bowel. So in itself, soy is not a carcinogen. Most foods in excess can be dangerous for example large amount of red meat can increase your risk of bowel cancer.

I don't personally think what Snugglybean said is offensive, especially considering your original post about fish being stupid which I do find offensive. I have no wish to get into a debate about the eating of meat but am supportive of considerate discussion about it.

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

I apologize for offending anyone about saying fish are stupid, though I don't really see how it's even debatable. Their brains exist solely to deal with sensory imput, hormonal balance, maintaining circadium rhythms, and controlling voluntary and involuntary physical movement. They do not "think" or "feel" like other animals. What I do find offensive is telling other people they should change their lifestyle to comply with someone elses moral judgement.

What I've read about soy is that the enzymes change properties when they're cooked and the human body can no longer process them properly. I doubt that small amounts of soy would do any harm but I wouldn't use it to meet all of my calcium requirements for example. The old "A glass of milk, tub of yogurt, slice of cheese" is too much in my book. It's possible that there isn't a risk but if soy is dangerous, we wouldn't know about it for another few decades.

[krysalyss]

They do not "think" or "feel" like other animals.

I am sure I don't at all know what you mean. Fish do think and feel. Additionally, they exhibit the exact same stress hormones as other animals when feeling pain and discomfort (including capture) and it has been measured time and again in scientific studies. They make the same daily choices that other animals make about their own survival including prey and predator interactions, social dominance hierarchies, avoidance of pain or death, foraging/hunting for food. Thinking fish are stupid is just something that people choose to do because they want to justify eating fish. Some further reading from recent scientific journals for those who are open to it:

Catch and release fish learn to avoid the hooks of anglers:
Askey et al (2006) Linking angling catch rates and fish learning under catch-and-release regulations, North American Journal of Fisheries Management 26(4) 1020-1029

Sub-ordinate fish in social groups steal food from dominant fish by using previous learning, expectancy of reward, and behavioural and learning plasticity
Hollis et al. (2004) Novel strategies of subordinate fish competing for food: learning when to fold, Animal Behaviour 68(5) 1155-1164

Fish are found to feel stress, pain and fear and their welfare should be considered especially for aquafarming application
Chandaroo et al. (2004) Can fish suffer?: perspectives on sentience, pain, fear and stress, Applied Animal Behaviour Science 86(3-4) 225-250