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I guess that it's best to just buy from the farmer's markets - then it's not a concern.
My boys own the markets we go to lol - they get so many freebies. Mind you it's a bit of a PITA that it's only open on saturdays.
Sloane, I don't know about the big markets in Melbourne but in Sydney we have the Flemington markets. They're open to industry on thursday and friday and the public (at higher prices) over the weekend. On the weekend the farmers are at one end and the other end is people who have bought from the farmers at the lower prices the day before so many of them are just selling the same stuff. They don't really have a clue what they're selling. The markets are stinky and crowded. My local greengrocer buys there on thursdays and fridays so I would rather buy from him for the same price as the public pay on saturday than bother with the market itself. I'd even pay more to avoid going there.
Have a look and try and find your local farmer's market. They're usually much less crowded and more pleasant. You can talk to the growers and ask them about their produce.
Moderator
Interesting topic. Hard to give advice on how to have good nutrition when there are disagreements on what is good nutrition. Just from this thread alone there are differing views on the role of fat in our diet. I am with Bear on a lot of this, we need to get back to foods in their natural forms and even to the extent of going back to old varieties of produce, not the modified ones that have been developed due to the industrialisation of farming
Get back to this later, screaming bubs.
Registered User
God no - that would mean giving up chocolate!
Seriously though I am lacto-ovo vegetarian so I do eat a range of egg and dairy products - having said that I only eat free range eggs and locally produced dairy where possible (milk, cheese etc). I did try soy as an alternative to dairy but my body rejected it (literally)
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thank you...have just googled & found some info. my weekend is looking fairly easy at this stage so i might have to go and have a look this weekend
i did buy some organic meat directly from a farmer at a farmer's market years ago & i actually found it difficult to stomach - the flavour of the meat was sooo strong. i guess that was a bit wake up call to me as to how far removed the meat we buy in (for eg) the supermarket is from the 'real thing'.
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This is a fairly common experience, for some things you have to rethink how you will cook them as the flavours and textures are can be very different to the poor cousins that you have been used to - the flip side is that you need to eat far less of it in order to feel satisfied.
This is especially true if you do manage to source more mature meat - age makes a huge difference to flavour.
We ate at a restaurant recently which served a tiny 100g portion of 4 year old wagyu beef, which had then been aged for 400 days before cooking. It wasn't even a prime cut, merely a little strip of skirt steak that in a younger animal would have only been fit for the stew pot. It was the most mind-blowing explosion of beef flavour that I have ever experienced, soft as butter - but I doubt I could have eaten any more of it. Much better to eat a cheap cut from an expensive animal, than an expensive cut from a cheap animal.
It's not limited to meat - when was the last time that chopping an onion really made you cry? I need to literally wear goggles to deal with the onions that we are getting from the markets at the moment!
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What a great thread
Registered User
you know, i'd never actually thought about it - but now that you say it, an onion rarely makes me cry these days.
i'm glad you said that about the meat as well - i thought it was just me!
i'm sad that i have spent so much time going for convenience rather than freshest, healthiest food but i'm on a mission now!
sorry also to keep taking this thread away from it's original intention - i just find the whole topic so interesting!
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Don;t be sorry, this is why I started it!
I do have some info on the role of fat in our diet but I have to go and spend some time with the kids - be back later!
Registered User
I like this post. And it's a very good question.
I believe that every individual has different dietary needs. E.g. a Body builder has far more protein requirement than a pregnant woman, a child, a stressed worker.
If food is sourced properly, cooked properly - and I hate to say it, but nutrients ARE destroyed when cooked. Not all, and not all the time, but some nutrients are not as stable to heat/light than others. There was a great study done by horticultural scientists at the Uni of California that supported the theory. This makes sense, because HEAT acts as a catalyst for reactions, and that reaction is degradation of nutrients. Best advice is to source fresh fruit and veg, and to consume within a few days. I don't cood my veg on the stove top, but rather in a controlled cooker where I can control the temperature.
Having said this, I do take a multivitamin and fish oil capsules. I don't eat enough fish in my diet, so I do consume the supplements. But if I ate more oily fish, I wouldn't need the capsules. The multi I take b/c I know I lack some essential B vitamins in my diet.
Generally, we should be able to get what we need from food, the problem is... we don't. Either due to poor dietary choices, or lack of nutrients in the foods. The question for me is, if we were able to get what we need from food, would we ever get sick?
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i think there is a big difference between having a nutrtious diet and being able to avoid illness completely. you might find that you have a stronger immune system if you're better nourished, so things like colds/flu won't kick in to the same degree kwim? we have been growing our own veg, and getting as much of our meat as possible direct from the local farmers (we have a lamb growing on a farm at the moment with our name on it, a pig too - and we're in the process of sourcing a beefer!), and in doing that, i've noticed that i haven't been as susceptible to colds/flu as i was a few years back. until recently, i hadn't had a serious bout of the flu in about 3 years - and i know i got sick more because of stress than anything... i work in a high exposure role when it comes to illness - 250 people in close working conditions - one person gets sick, everyone does, so it was very noticable to me when i didn't get sick at same time as everyone else...
also - fresh grown vegies just taste a thousand times better!
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Sorry, I forgot to come back. Here is some info from my book on the role of fat in the diet. The book is "The Essential Guide to Fitness, for the fitness instructor.
Fats can be ingested in the form of saturated and unsaturated fats. Saturated fats can be found in animal products such as meat and dairy food. Unsaturated fats can be found in seeds, nuts and oils. Fats are broken down to fatty acids and monoglycerides. These are then transported in the lymph system in the form of triglycerides. Cholesterol is found in egg yolk and meats and it's consumption should be minimised. It is not used for energy, but rather as a component of cell membranes.
The body requires some fat to maintain health. Some vitamins (A and D) are classified as fat-soluble vitamins because they rely on fat to function properly. In addition, fat is required as an essential component of the protective barrier of the nervous system and all cell membranes. Subcutaneous fat in the adipose tisue can insulate and protect the body and also serve as a fuel reserve.
Fat consumption should generally contribute to approximately 30% of adily KJ intake with no more than approximately 10% from saturated fats. Diets high in saturated fat in particular are associated with the development of heart disease.
Cholesterol is a substance made predominantly by the liver with the rest coming from the diet. Cholesterol is lost from the body in faeces. Triglycerides and cholesterol are insoluble in water and therefore need a transport mechanism to get around the blood. They are transported in bodily fluids bound to small lipid-protein complexes called lipoproteins. Lipoproteins come in different densities and therefor have different names: high-density lipoproteins (HDLs), low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) and very low-density lipoproteins (VLDLs). The LDLs transport cholseterol to the peripheral tissues and also regulate the production of cholesterol. The HDLs transport cholesterol from the peripheral tissues to to the liver to be broken down. High HDL levels are favourable because the cholesterol is transported to the liver to be broken down. High LDL levels are unfavourable as cholesterol deposits can start to accumulate in the artery walls.
So from all that I have two questions that I want to know the answers to,
1. If cholesterol is predominantly made in the liver then do we actually need the extra that is brought in from the diet?
2. How do we regulate or change our levels of HDLs and LDLs?
Phew, my arms ache!
Hope this help clear up some misconceptions that we should eliminate all fat from the diet. And also why diets like the "Atkins Diet" aren't recommended.
Moderator
Sorry wrong on Atkins! Atkins done properly actually lowers cholesterol and is a very healthy diet if done with whole foods rather than protien bars and shakes. Will come back to link the article when I have 2 hands free. I am a firm believer that the fad of low fat diets has caused more damage than good to the health of the population.Hope this help clear up some misconceptions that we should eliminate all fat from the diet. And also why diets like the "Atkins Diet" aren't recommended.
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Possibly if you stick to less than 10% saturated fat but most people when on Atkins take the oppertunity to consume foods mainly high in saturated fat. They also risk restriction of important nutrients like calcium, fibre and folate.
It depends what you mean by low fat. Low as in 30% of your daily intake then thats what is recommended. Anything less than that and your body will suffer.
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Man I can't believe I missed this thread!!! ARGH!!!
I have been very interested in diet and nutrition for years now, changing what we eat, eliminating chemicals and unnecessary preservatives from our diets. We buy mostly market fruit & veg (now) from the grower and we also buy meat from my butcher who can tell me where the cow was raised & where it was slaughtered and how it was done. He does all the small goods butchery himself, can give me lists of ingredients in his marinades if I wanted meat that was in a marinade instead of doing it myself. He cures his ham, he smokes his meats and he makes sausages for others who want special orders. He doesn't use preservatives so he has a big sign that says "If you aren't making it for dinner, please freeze when you get home". He has chemical free meats and chicken... hormone free stuff, organic stuff.... and it tastes so nice.
Anyway... a year after finishing changing our diets entirely.... I have had serious health issues. I have low B12, Iron, Vit D and calcium levels in my body. How has this happened? I have started with food connect & market buying because I'm obviously not absorbing the nutrients I do eat. (And I do eat leafy salads almost daily, I stir fry and steam I don't boil veges etc etc ). I am now on full time supplements and probiotics, to help my stomach learn to absorb nutrients. It sucks because its like all the hard work in getting our family on track hasn't helped me..... we haven't found a cause for my body not absorbing nutrients yet.
ETA: and yes we haven't eliminated fats, but we use cold pressed olive oil grown locally and avocados to get fat from. Sometimes in cooking I appreciate a good dark chocolate or we use Nuttlex due to our families milk allergy.
Moderator
Generally if people do their research and eat wholefoods it is incredibly healthy. The amount of vegetables, especially leafy greens, that you eat is quite amazing. Also I wonder where you get restriction of calcium from, when you can eat products like cheese as well as nuts. Almond meal get used a lot. I never found fibre and issue, it was amazing how much better my bowels were. The basis behind Atkins is lowering carbs, the way to do that is to pick high fibre foods. For example if I was making a meatloaf I would use bran rather than breadcumbs. Whilst foods like butter are unlimited, it is hard to eat much of it, as without carby foods like bread or potato's, there is not much to eat butter with.
Like anything if people to do not read all the material and base their eating on hearsay, then they are going to get it wrong. These people annoy me as they are the ones giving low carb a very bad name. Also the media tends to focus on these people when they are looking for a sensational story. The ones who eat a 1/2 kilo of bacon at breakfast, believe me when meat it unlimited you get sick of of very quickly and go back to eating sensible portions without feeling hungry.
I mean those people who mistook low fat as meaning they could eat as much as they liked of any food so long as the fat content was low or zero. Many still over ate and just increased their sugar levels instead. The amount of rubbish in many ready to eat low fat products it just scary and I struggle to see how that is seen to be healthier than a leafy green salad with meat, cheese and a good quality whole egg mayo like I would eat on Atkins.
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I had that problem and was put on hydrocoloric acid tablets to help with digestion. I suffered from extreme hunger not matter what I ate, especially with foods like pasta. If found they helped. BTW I want you butcher
Registered User
Ahh Christy, that sucksBut at least you know that you're providing the best diet for your family, and you're not giving yourself all the extra nasties that come with food thats come from who knows where.
Do the Dr's have any ideas at all? Is it something to do with stomach acid?
Moderator
Low-carb rated best diet
By Mike Stobbe July 16, 2008 10:00pm
THE Atkins diet may have proved itself after all: A low-carb diet and a Mediterranean-style regimen helped people lose more weight than a traditional low-fat diet in one of the longest and largest studies to compare the dueling weight-loss techniques.
A bigger surprise: The low-carb diet improved cholesterol more than the other two. Some critics had predicted the opposite.
"It is a vindication," said Abby Bloch of the Dr. Robert C. and Veronica Atkins Foundation, a philanthropy group that honors the Atkins' diet's creator and was the study's main funder.
However, all three approaches - the low-carb diet, a low-fat diet and a so-called Mediterranean diet - achieved weight loss and improved cholesterol.
The study is remarkable not only because it lasted two years, much longer than most, but also because of the huge proportion of people who stuck with the diets - 85 percent.
Researchers approached the Atkins Foundation with the idea for the study. But the foundation played no role in the study's design or reporting of the results, said the lead author, Iris Shai of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.
Other experts said the study - being published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine - was highly credible.
"This is a very good group of researchers," said Kelly Brownell, director of Yale University's Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity.
The research was done in a controlled environment - an isolated nuclear research facility in Israel. The 322 participants got their main meal of the day, lunch, at a central cafeteria.
"The workers can't easily just go out to lunch at a nearby Subway or McDonald's," said Dr. Meir Stampfer, the study's senior author and a professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.
In the cafeteria, the appropriate foods for each diet were identified with colored dots, using red for low-fat, green for Mediterranean and blue for low-carb.
As for breakfast and dinner, the dieters were counseled on how to stick to their eating plans and were asked to fill out questionnaires on what they ate, Stampfer said.
The low-fat diet - no more than 30 percent of calories from fat - restricted calories and cholesterol and focused on low-fat grains, vegetables and fruits as options. The Mediterranean diet had similar calorie, fat and cholesterol restrictions, emphasizing poultry, fish, olive oil and nuts.
The low-carb diet set limits for carbohydrates, but none for calories or fat. It urged dieters to choose vegetarian sources of fat and protein.
"So not a lot of butter and eggs and cream," said Madelyn Fernstrom, a University of Pittsburgh Medical Center weight management expert who reviewed the study but was not involved in it.
Most of the participants were men; all men and women in the study got roughly equal amounts of exercise, the study's authors said.
Average weight loss for those in the low-carb group was 10.3 pounds (4.67 kilograms) after two years. Those in the Mediterranean diet lost 10 pounds (4.54 kilograms), and those on the low-fat regimen dropped 6.5 pounds (2.95 kilograms).
More surprising were the measures of cholesterol. Critics have long acknowledged that an Atkins-style diet could help people lose weight but feared that over the long term, it may drive up cholesterol because it allows more fat.
But the low-carb approach seemed to trigger the most improvement in several cholesterol measures, including the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL, the "good" cholesterol. For example, someone with total cholesterol of 200 and an HDL of 50 would have a ratio of 4 to 1. The optimum ratio is 3.5 to 1, according to the American Heart Association.
Doctors see that ratio as a sign of a patient's risk for hardening of the arteries. "You want that low," Stampfer said.
The ratio declined by 20 percent in people on the low-carb diet, compared to 16 percent in those on the Mediterranean and 12 percent in low-fat dieters.
The study is not the first to offer a favorable comparison of an Atkins-like diet. Research published in the Journal of the American Medical Association last year found overweight women on the Atkins plan had slightly better blood pressure and cholesterol readings than those on the low-carb Zone diet, the low-fat Ornish diet and a low-fat diet that followed U.S. government guidelines.
The heart association has long recommended low-fat diets to reduce heart risks, but some of its leaders have noted the Mediterranean diet has also proven safe and effective.
The heart association recommends a low-fat diet even more restrictive than the one in the study, said Dr. Robert Eckel, the association's past president who is a professor of medicine at the University of Colorado-Denver.
It does not recommend the Atkins diet. However, a low-carb approach is consistent with heart association guidelines so long as there are limitations on the kinds of saturated fats often consumed by people on the Atkins diet, Eckel said.
The new study's results favored the Atkins-like approach less when subgroups such as diabetics and women were examined.
Among the 36 diabetics, only those on the Mediterranean diet lowered blood sugar levels. Among the 45 women, those on the Mediterranean diet lost the most weight.
"I think these data suggest that men may be much more responsive to a diet in which there are clear limits on what foods can be consumed," such as an Atkins-like diet, said Dr. William Dietz, of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"It suggests that because women have had more experience dieting or losing weight, they're more capable of implementing a more complicated diet," said Dietz, who heads CDC's nutrition unit.
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