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Thankyou sunny that really means alot you brought tears to my eyes saying that, I was really worried about putting it out there and upsetting people. It is a real feeling for alot of people but we all must travell on the path we are given and do what we thing is right for our families.
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Your desire to have a daughter feels as natural to you as another womans desire to just be pregnant or bring home a live baby. All warranted, and all natural to that person.
xx
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foreva*your*mummy touched on this point in her last sentence.
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I guess the difficulty is in understanding the leap between yearning for a child of a particular gender - and facing the grief of missing out on that - and actively discarding embryos of the other gender....
On the face of it, it does seem a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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I doubt that MOST poeple would consider such an action as lightly as throwing out bathwater. Sorry, but that was insensitive, and maybe judgemental.
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean that literally, of course. My point was in the lack of comprehension - coming at it from completely different view points. To someone who cannot empathise with the position of the parents, it might seem this way.
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Of course, thanks for clarifying though. :O)
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I dont think if someone is going to go through gender selection that they would make that decision lightly at all, I would think if a family is willing to spend that amount of money, time and emotion on something it would be an extremely hard decision to make. You cant judge people on their choices, you can listen to all sides and make decisions that are right for you. I have 3 amazing beautiful little men who are healthy and happy. To me that is the most important thing in the world, I would never change my boys for even 1 girl, its not about that its the desire to experience all aspects of motherhood and to ME that is also being a mother to a little girl.
Mummynaomi, you took this out of context, I totally believe in IVF I think its an amazing thing, but when poeple talk about what god delt you then isnt it the same thing. i get 4 boys and some poeple dont have children. I wasnt the one who brought up god and a higher universe. I also completly understand there are no garentees in it, IF my family was to go down this path we would do it knowing all the facts. I understand the emotional rollercoaster with IVF I have had a couple of very close friends go through this
Last edited by foreva*your*mummy; June 6th, 2012 at 10:13 PM.
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Wanting more children doesn't mean we don't love and appreciate the ones we already have, and FYM, although I may not understand your feelings on this, I do respect them.
I wonder, though - when I see this discussion about undergoing IVF and actively selecting particular embryos based on their gender and discarding the others.... IVF is very invasive, costly, emotionally draining.... and it doesn't always work. Parents could do a cycle and get no embryos. Or they could get 3 girls - when they really want a boy! What counselling would be involved for the parents in this sort of situation? What a heartbreaking situation, surely?!
Parents who undergo IVF have similar issues, gender aside. Sometimes they have embryos left over... and must decide what to do with them. Although the decisions that lead to this point are different, the end result is quite similar.
It's never something to be taken lightly. I know that.
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Mummy Naomi I had to spread the love but Best post ever!
IVF sucks.
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Gosh, this is really highly charged.
A friend of mine suffers a couple of severe mental illnesses and has explored with her doctors, the possibility of having a child. She has a lot of history that's not the best and as a result, she freaks at boy children. Even mine. If she were to have a pregnancy (extremely unlikely!) she has categorically decided with her doctors to terminate if its male. I can't imagine where she's at. And I don't want anyone to ever be there. But gender selection in this instance is for the life and health of the parent.
We don't know why people make the choices they do. I think that our morals decide whether *we* could make the same decision.
One of the best pieces of advice I received when pregnant with our second child was "decide now if you're having 2 or 3. Don't wait until you find out if it's a boy or a girl - that child needs to know they *are* wanted and loved. And that you didn't "keep trying until you got a ... "
*hugs* to all
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Totally agree Kazbah, we have always wanted 4 children whatever the outcome, and having 3 boys automatically makes people think that we are having another to try for a girl. It's so upsetting when people ask this it makes you feel like if you have another boy people would assume that they would be less wanted.
This is a great thread and really great reading everyone opinions. I just wanted to share my story and feelings so maybe it could shed some light on the other side.
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FYM - Just being brutally honest, The IVF journey to conceive a baby is hard enough, let alone trying to get one of a particular sex. I do respect that you know there are no guarantees, but I also fear that parents looking at IVF as a solution to conceive a particular gender is fraught with danger. Also, until you actually experience IVF, you can never truly understand it, my BF travelled this path well before I did, I thought I understood and was supportive to her, in hindsight when I experienced it myself, I really had no idea.
Here's hoping baby #4 completes your family the way you wantI mean no disrespect to you babe. I worry though that IVF will become as unregulated and troublesome as it is in other countries - US with multiples is a good example - high risk pregnancies resulting in massive medical issues (and babies that dont grow to full term and have medical issues), woman going through ridiculous amounts of cycles that create other medical issues and legacies etc. I believe their are very good reasons to have tight controls/guidelines around its use.
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Much as I want a girl for religious reasons, there is no way I would go through AC and discard an embryo just because it was male.
I just want a baby to be earthside and healthy, I don't care about the sex of it.
The only time I'd consider sex selection is for medical reasons, if my OH and I were both carrying the recessive gene that would impact on one sex, then I would consider selection then.
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I totally understand that concern, and I specifically asked my FS about that at my first appointment. I expressed to him my feeling of guilt that I might be taking up time and resources from a couple that were unable to conceive without the IVF system. He responded by asking me "How long did it take you to get an appointment with me?". It took me just under two weeks, and that was even with him only consulting at the clinic 2-3 days a week. He then explained to me that the IVF system is generally only stressed for time and resources in more remote areas where clinics only run periodically. He said that if IVF with PGD for gender selection became available for any couples it would actually increase the amount of money coming into the IVF system (especially considering medicare and PHI wouldn't cover anything) and that it would result in added resources in the long run, and therefore actually benefit infertile couples. I was rather surprised when he told me all that, but it certainly made me feel less guilty.
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in theory, yes, that might be the way they see it - but a FS is just another business person with a different skill set - they are going to be looking at the dollars coming in and how to expand their business. in a money based, rather than needs based "economy" for IVF, yes, it probably looks fantastic for them.
but your FS was also looking at the situation with appointments NOW - where there ARE strict controls on who and why access is made available - maybe user pays medicine might not change that - but the cynical side of me thinks it would. there is not going to be a triage system to make sure those with a need are guaranteed priority over those who want.... it's going to be first in best dressed, or the "business" side of things will drive the price up, so it becomes a case of those who can afford it will get preference, and those who are in need of assistance paying for treatment will make up a compulsory, but minimal, portion of "patients" to keep medicare/government/regulatory bodies happy. it's already like this, to a degree, now - but at least it's an even playing field for private patients with rebates etc (well for the most part - safety net thresholds aside) - if the regulation on cost etc that is controlled somewhat by medicare rebate amounts is removed by allowing "full fee paying" services, it is going to drive the price up and those that struggle but make it happen will find treatment they require is out of their budget - so the "wants" get their wants, cos they'll pay whatever it costs, the "needs" miss out cos they can't afford it or places are taken that shouldn't be...
again, personal filters from having been "in the system" for so long - and probably from looking a bit beyond AU and seeing the user pays system in the US - it's all about who can afford it, not who deserves to have access to the treatment...
ETA - i don't know the specifics of the gender linked issue you used PGD to avoid, but i know there was one - so your circumstances are the type that PGD should be used for!
FWIW - my first FS appt took 2 months, once i was "in the system" - it was generally about a month from ringing to getting appointment - and anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months to get a spot in the local clinic. had the IUI the conceived DD not worked, it would have been May-November between treatment cycles as i couldn't be slotted into the clinic in the August due to limited places available...
Last edited by briggsy's girl; June 10th, 2012 at 01:36 PM.
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The viewpoint of going against nature could be used for alot of artificial technology these days, not just limited to gender determination in ART for whatever reason. People could reason that using IVF when its clear nature doesnt intend for you to have children is selfish or wrong. I dont personally believe that, but Im just trying to show how far thinking along those lines could be taken. Who's right is it to draw a line?
I have a gender yearning. I wouldnt call it disappointment because I am in no way disappointed that I have 3 beautiful boys. Would I use PGD to have a better chance of conceiving a girl were it available to me? I cant say no with conviction. Funnily enough I straddle the divide between 'selfish' yearning for a specific gender and facing the possibility of not having a baby due to recurrent miscarriage. At this point in time my yearning for a healthy baby outweighs my yearning for a daughter; but let me tell you its a heck of a position to be in!
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