Ethics of artificial sex selection

[foreva*your*mummy]

Thankyou sunny that really means alot you brought tears to my eyes saying that, I was really worried about putting it out there and upsetting people. It is a real feeling for alot of people but we all must travell on the path we are given and do what we thing is right for our families.

[Sunny Love]

Your desire to have a daughter feels as natural to you as another womans desire to just be pregnant or bring home a live baby. All warranted, and all natural to that person.
xx

[onthefly]

I guess the difficulty is in understanding the leap between yearning for a child of a particular gender - and facing the grief of missing out on that - and actively discarding embryos of the other gender....

On the face of it, it does seem a little like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Sunny Love]

I doubt that MOST poeple would consider such an action as lightly as throwing out bathwater. Sorry, but that was insensitive, and maybe judgemental.

[Freya]

The viewpoint of going against nature could be used for alot of artificial technology these days, not just limited to gender determination in ART for whatever reason. People could reason that using IVF when its clear nature doesnt intend for you to have children is selfish or wrong. I dont personally believe that, but Im just trying to show how far thinking along those lines could be taken. Who's right is it to draw a line?

I have a gender yearning. I wouldnt call it disappointment because I am in no way disappointed that I have 3 beautiful boys. Would I use PGD to have a better chance of conceiving a girl were it available to me? I cant say no with conviction. Funnily enough I straddle the divide between 'selfish' yearning for a specific gender and facing the possibility of not having a baby due to recurrent miscarriage. At this point in time my yearning for a healthy baby outweighs my yearning for a daughter; but let me tell you its a heck of a position to be in!

[MummyNaomi]

Isnt it the same thing when someone cannot get pregnant? is that god saying you where not meant to have children?

No its not the same - A medical issue preventing successful conception is exactly that - a medical issue that has a treatment.
Not conceiving the gender you wanted isn't a medical issue - it's taking a punt on the 50/50 odds of which sperm get to the egg first and not winning the bet.
I must admit I get frustrated by this mentality. Should Cancer patients just accept their lot in life and accept that's just natures way of getting rid of the weak? No way!! Medical Science should be used appropriately and ethically to treat medical issues.

FYM - I do understand why you'd want to have a daughter, don't get me wrong, but I think you seriously need to understand that there are NO guarantee's with IVF, conceiving in one cycle is very rare, the emotional rollercoaster is very very difficult, the medical journey is tough on your body, and the expense throws even a higher income family into a spin. I would never put DH and I through an IVF cycle if we could conceive naturally. It impacts EVERY part of your life and relationships and is totally consuming.

[onthefly]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that literally, of course. My point was in the lack of comprehension - coming at it from completely different view points. To someone who cannot empathise with the position of the parents, it might seem this way.

[Sunny Love]

FYM - I do understand why you'd want to have a daughter, don't get me wrong, but I think you seriously need to understand that there are NO guarantee's with IVF.

foreva*your*mummy touched on this point in her last sentence.

[Sunny Love]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that literally, of course. My point was in the lack of comprehension - coming at it from completely different view points. To someone who cannot empathise with the position of the parents, it might seem this way.

Of course, thanks for clarifying though. :O)

[foreva*your*mummy]

I dont think if someone is going to go through gender selection that they would make that decision lightly at all, I would think if a family is willing to spend that amount of money, time and emotion on something it would be an extremely hard decision to make. You cant judge people on their choices, you can listen to all sides and make decisions that are right for you. I have 3 amazing beautiful little men who are healthy and happy. To me that is the most important thing in the world, I would never change my boys for even 1 girl, its not about that its the desire to experience all aspects of motherhood and to ME that is also being a mother to a little girl.

Mummynaomi, you took this out of context, I totally believe in IVF I think its an amazing thing, but when poeple talk about what god delt you then isnt it the same thing. i get 4 boys and some poeple dont have children. I wasnt the one who brought up god and a higher universe. I also completly understand there are no garentees in it, IF my family was to go down this path we would do it knowing all the facts. I understand the emotional rollercoaster with IVF I have had a couple of very close friends go through this

[onthefly]

Wanting more children doesn't mean we don't love and appreciate the ones we already have, and FYM, although I may not understand your feelings on this, I do respect them.
I wonder, though - when I see this discussion about undergoing IVF and actively selecting particular embryos based on their gender and discarding the others.... IVF is very invasive, costly, emotionally draining.... and it doesn't always work. Parents could do a cycle and get no embryos. Or they could get 3 girls - when they really want a boy! What counselling would be involved for the parents in this sort of situation? What a heartbreaking situation, surely?!
Parents who undergo IVF have similar issues, gender aside. Sometimes they have embryos left over... and must decide what to do with them. Although the decisions that lead to this point are different, the end result is quite similar.
It's never something to be taken lightly. I know that.

[PumpkinZulu]

Would your desire change though if you knew for certain that your girl would be a total tomboy, reject societal expectations of what a girl should be, and eventually identify as male?

[nothing2lose]

Mummy Naomi I had to spread the love but Best post ever!

IVF sucks.

[Sunny Love]

Do you mean Transgender, or just Tomboy? Big difference, kinda.

x

[MummyNaomi]

Mummynaomi, you took this out of context, I totally believe in IVF I think its an amazing thing, but when poeple talk about what god delt you then isnt it the same thing. i get 4 boys and some poeple dont have children. I wasnt the one who brought up god and a higher universe. I also completly understand there are no garentees in it, IF my family was to go down this path we would do it knowing all the facts. I understand the emotional rollercoaster with IVF I have had a couple of very close friends go through this

FYM - Just being brutally honest, The IVF journey to conceive a baby is hard enough, let alone trying to get one of a particular sex. I do respect that you know there are no guarantees, but I also fear that parents looking at IVF as a solution to conceive a particular gender is fraught with danger. Also, until you actually experience IVF, you can never truly understand it, my BF travelled this path well before I did, I thought I understood and was supportive to her, in hindsight when I experienced it myself, I really had no idea.

Here's hoping baby #4 completes your family the way you want I mean no disrespect to you babe. I worry though that IVF will become as unregulated and troublesome as it is in other countries - US with multiples is a good example - high risk pregnancies resulting in massive medical issues (and babies that dont grow to full term and have medical issues), woman going through ridiculous amounts of cycles that create other medical issues and legacies etc. I believe their are very good reasons to have tight controls/guidelines around its use.

[PumpkinZulu]

I mean, tomboy, then grows up and realises they're male. I don't really know what to label that? Just one example, with the question being, what of they're not what you want from a girl? What if they're like a boy in every other way except their sexual organs?

[Kazbah]

Gosh, this is really highly charged.

A friend of mine suffers a couple of severe mental illnesses and has explored with her doctors, the possibility of having a child. She has a lot of history that's not the best and as a result, she freaks at boy children. Even mine. If she were to have a pregnancy (extremely unlikely!) she has categorically decided with her doctors to terminate if its male. I can't imagine where she's at. And I don't want anyone to ever be there. But gender selection in this instance is for the life and health of the parent.

We don't know why people make the choices they do. I think that our morals decide whether *we* could make the same decision.

One of the best pieces of advice I received when pregnant with our second child was "decide now if you're having 2 or 3. Don't wait until you find out if it's a boy or a girl - that child needs to know they *are* wanted and loved. And that you didn't "keep trying until you got a ... "

*hugs* to all

[Sunny Love]

[QUOTE=PumpkinZulu;3128185]I mean, tomboy, then grows up and realises they're male. I don't really know what to label that? QUOTE]

Being a Transgender is a psychological diagnosis, being a Tomboy is a personal characteristic.