Ha ha - they get more and more obvious as they get older I think :)
Printable View
Ha ha - they get more and more obvious as they get older I think :)
My mum has a thing about bigger people too, she hates that i am a size 16/18 (which is probably why I am) she buys me clothes which are miles to big and picks on one of her friends who is obese.
My mum picks weird presents too, for Christmas last year I got cake servers from a magazine and a cheap beaded bracelet when she knew I would like a charm for my bracelet. She buys more expensive for my brother and brags about it.
Mum had a lap band done before DS was born and delights in pointing out that I'm now fatter than her. She's delusional about how "skinny" she is though.
I moved from TAS to QLD at 17 just to get away from her, she came up when I was 35ish weeks pregnant with DS and we she got to our place she was crying. Stupid me thought it was tears of happiness to see me but later told me she was just "so" upset at how much weight I had put on, it was devastating for her. Mind you I had PE which made me look like a balloon.
She completely took over once DS was born, she would take him out of our room and put him in bed with her over night. She convinced me I couldn't breast feed and we needed to bottle feed, or should I say she needed to bottle feed him. Then when he was 2months old she went back to TAS....leaving me completely unconfident in my abilities.
The other thing that gets to me is her flat out denying things that everyone knows happened. Her favourite catch phrase when I was living at home was "I love you because I have to but I don't like you" and that I was a selfish little b**ch. Mind you she told everyone else family, friends that I was the perfect job and she had done such a wonderful job raising me. I might have been a bit of a b**ch at 16/17 but selfish was one thing I wasn't and the only reason I was a b**ch was because of how she treated me.
Another one was how she gave up everything for me, she put her life on hold for me and then when I hit 15 she wasn't there for me (not that she ever was) because once I started dating she had to start dating and she had "better" boyfriends, more boyfriends. I have to laugh though, when I was 16 for Valentines day I got 3 big beautiful bunches of roses and a teddy...she got a tiny little bunch from her crappy boyfriend...have to admit I was pretty chuffed with that although she of course turned it around on me and that it was my fault and I was being selfish again... sigh
My mum ALWAYS buys me clothes that are too big for me - then of course I would get in trouble for complaining that they were miles too big, or asking for the reciept so I could go get the right size. I was a size 8 and she was consistently buying me 12-14's.
She's also a TERRIBLE gift giver - I remember when I was about 8 or 9, all I wanted for Christmas was a baby born doll. ALL I wanted, I even told her get me nothing else I don't want anything else accept that doll. I got a stocking full of clothes (all too big for me), a book about Egypt, and a chocolate making kit - I'm allergic to cocoa. I mean how hard is it to get a kid one thing. Its not like they were a hot item at the time and stocks would have been low. I wanted one thing and she didn't think I should have it - I remember her saying I was 'too old' for dolls.
I also cop being told how much she gave up for me and how she raised a child, worked full time, and did uni all at the same time. The truth is she was a shift worker, it wasn't unusual for there to be several days a week when I didn't see her. Dad would drop me at a friends house early before school and I would get a lift with them, and then I would go home with another friend after school until Dad finished work. The nights when she was home, Dad would cook, and she would be in the study click click clicking away on the keyboard getting her assignments done. The only time she really did things for me was to drive me to piano lessons that I hated, or stand over me yelling at me while I practiced whatever musical instrument I was being forced into at the time. When I was 15 she took a job in Canberra for 6 months and it was bliss - accept for every second weekend when she would come home to 'visit' (read: check up on me). Raised me my arse.
*hand up* yep, I have a mother with NPD. I went to the links which were posted in another thread and when I read the traits I was like yep, that's it alright. I have limited contact with my family and try not to let them stress me out.
It is a little sad that there are so many of us with issues but at the same time I am glad that there are people who understand.
I am constantly aware of the way I talk to my girls and I really, really don't want my relationship with my girls to be like it was/is with my mother. I'm fairly sure it won't be but the thought is always there.
I'm very worried of turning out like my mother, I really don't want my childhood for my kids.
I try very hard to do things differently to her, just so I'm not like her in any way even to the point of staying in my marriage for the sake of not being a single parent like her. Luckily staying in my marriage has been a good thing and things are finally better than they have ever been.
I really wanted to be a nurse but again, she's a nurse so I can't bring myself to do it. I don't want to be compared to her in any way.
My MIL chooses gifts according to what she likes. Since her taste is certainly not mine, they're rarely what I'd choose. She's not a bad gift giver in the way that others are talking about, it's just she uses gifts as a way of buying attention and status. We had to put a blanket rule in place stipulating one present for DD at Xmas and bday because she piled up a roomful of gifts for her when DD was 20 mths, mostly unwrapped and just whatever she happened to have picked up while shopping. It was just the sheer volume and the whole "look how much I've given her" angle. Then she'd bring over something for DD every time she saw her, which we put a stop to (we told her it was because we wanted DD to enjoy spending time with her for the sake of it, not for what she'd bring, but that's only part of the truth. It was just ridiculous and completely inappropriate, not to mention some of the gifts were not even suitable for a toddler.). It started even while I was pg with DD - she bought so many clothes before we were even through the first trimester that we had to be the bad guys and tell her to stop, that was enough. The whole pg became about the role she thought she'd play in our child's life.
Thankfully, because we have cut her back to a limited role and a lot of the intentions she held wrt her granddaughter haven't/won't come about, there's a bit less butting of heads these days. She's now a lot more immersed in her life of travelling too. so that's the upside for NPD - far too focused on herself to focus for long on her grandchild (she's given up on us mostly, since she has no influence there).
The little things she says still irk me and are a constant reminder about how/who she is and will always be. A few weeks ago we took DD over and I took over the beanie I'd started knitting for the baby (to give me something to do - helps if you don't have to play visitors only I've found!). She looks through the knitting book I had and asks me what I want to try next and when I point out a little set she tells me that I can get her to do it (how nice of her :rolleyes:) because she'd do it so much faster than me. She then pulls out a dozen old mags with other knitting projects and tells me to choose what I'd like her to knit (because clearly at my level I'm not going to be capable of some of the more ambitious ones). She didn't actually say that last bit, but YKWIM when I say it was implied. Strongly.
That's the thing about NPD. You take up a new hobby, they can do it so much better and must take ownership. Any compliments are completely backhanded to add to that. ("Oh, only a few mistakes on that bit there, I guess that's not bad for a first effort.")
And the critical aspect to how she talks to us - particularly DP. He got a new car he was proud of - she tells him he "has more money than sense". Lovely. And yet we listen to her endlessly pontificating about how much her house must be worth now, based on the place across the road/next door/who cares. You bought it almost 40 years ago - in Sydney I would think it is worth a bit more now than it was then! And she always forgets the bit about how much money she was given by her parents to help buy it in the first place. Anything good is because of her, anything bad or threatening has to be blamed on someone else. If someone else has something good she doesn't have, it has to be inconsequential or unwanted.
She really falls down on parenting though. She tries to pass off any problems from her own parenting as down to the fact that her boys were 'bad', or that it was because they were boys. DD was such a dream baby and is still a great kid, so she can't find any area of our parenting to criticise or advise on (particularly since she only sees it in limited chunks anyway). But we are constantly told that we don't have problems because DD is a girl.
wow my eyes have been opened in this thread !
just me: i wrote a very similar letter explaining how things would be if they were allowed to see the children, she threw it all back in my face and said there would be no meeting up if it didn't involve my brother (i said he wasnt invited as he has apologies of his own to make, i don't get why she defends him but not one of them has seemed to have thought of defending me !). she told me that its all I I I with me and i never think of anyone else, i was shocked because i have always considered it the other way around. she told me no one should treat their parents the way i had treated mine, i guess this is all part of it ?
i had to live my life with people constantly telling me how wonderful she is and how lucky i was to have her as a mother, this always confused me as i knew a different side to her.
im also concerned about being like this with my kids, i have a very clear memory of horrible things that were said when i was a child "you are so lazy im surprised you bother to breathe" etc
what i really don't get is my brother 100% supporting her and completely blocking me, he and i were both living in london in our 20's, mum came over to visit for a month, one particular day (my birthday) she carried on about something and created such a scene ruining my birthday and asking me why i hated her so much, my brother and her didn't speak for months after she went home over it and so thats why i don't understand him now, he knows what he is like so why isn't he supporting me ?
I'd say the first issue - bringing it up on your birthday - had to do with this: Your Success and Happy Days - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and you'll probably find the issue with your brother has to do with him being the Golden Child and you being the Scape Goat - Golden Child Scapegoat - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers I was the Scape Goat in my family and my brothers still can't see that there is anything wrong with things that happened. It's frustrating and it's lonely. I was also told by everyone around me that I was lucky. I believed them too until I realised that not everyone was like that.:
DH was neither the GC or the SG in his family. His brother was the GC and his sister was the SG. Funnily enough, neither of them can see any problems with the way his parents are and I suspect that DH's brother has developed a NPD all of his own complete with dillusions of granduer.
ok im back
wow you ladies, we all have alot more in common than i think we ever realised, shame its on this note that we can somewhat connect..
some of you have read my posts on my mum, throughout my BB experience but they are only tiny specs on a huge flower that hit home..
My mum has always been the queen, the counsellor, the financier, the homemaker, the single mother etc etc etc.. i could go on but i really cant be bothered with the names she calls herself..
Everything my whole life has been about what she is, what she has sacrifised, what she had to do to finance me, what she had tried to do to protect me blah blah blah
Thing is she never once raised me, she left me to go party and use drugs, and have her teenage life, wasnt till she was preg with my brother that she even bothered to come and get me, and till my nan threatened legal custody that she made her tracks to my nans house..
I was raped by my dads brother when i was 6, and when she found out, she was yelling and crying saying "how could he do this to me?, why would he violate my property?"
Now being 6 yrs old i was just a child, i was forced to give a step by step encounter, forced into 3 yrs of constant counselling, and was made to tell my family members how i felt and what happened. When it happened again 10 months later by a drug addicts friend who was staying at my mums i didnt bother telling her, still havent, i could only imagine what she would do..
I grew up with, your exaclty like your father and his family, you ruined my life, i could be away vacationing right now, do you realise what i had to scarifise to have you in MY house?
my mum was a drug dealer for almost my whole life i was with her, and why? Cause her kids make her, She couldnt go get a job, because we wouldnt let her..
We used to get flogged with straps, wooden spoons, plastic and metal spoons, and her hands, cause we brought out the evil in her apparently,
If i didnt do as i was told, I was made to eat a bar of body soap and had to swollow it in front her.. cause ifshe didnt do it, god knows how i would be as an adult.
When it came to family outings i was always told to stay next to my nan, (always did anyway) so we didnt embarress her with our rude behaviour.
She would always ruin my bday's without fail, she would start a fight with me infront of my friends, hit me, and say that she wished i was dead, that i was nothing but an ungrateful b***h and ask my friends if they ever spoke to their mother like i did..
She would go out every weekend leave me and my bro with our 14 yr old cousin and her friends, and come home with practically the whole night club and random men, and brag about what they said attracted them to her, her drug addict friends would lie on the couch out of it, with their crap hanging out of their bag, some where even prostitutes that used to come over while they had some free time and why? cause my mum thought they needed somewone to talk too..
When it came to my sport games, she would never ever come, my friends parents used to take me, and she would never ever turn up ever, when she did, she would say "i took time out to come see you play and look at you, all sloppy, if i was the coach i would kick you off the team"
My mum thinks she is the counsellor to the stars, she thinks she fixes everyones problems, nothing she cant fix, bar her own kids, she thinks everyone looks up to her and her wise opinions and advice.
Everyones problems, she always has a "yeah i had ....' always something she has been through alsso, no one has a problem she hasnt had.
If she is invited somewhere, its "because of everything ive done for so and so.." like she is queen sheba and everyone worships her.
When i fell pregnant with my sons she told everyone how i was following in her footsteps, how im exactly like her and etc.
She also said i failed school, that i was going to be like all the other teenage mums that fail at parent hood and that i dont deserve a child, who will just be a doll to me.
When i found out isaiah was gone, she said "well your probably better off, how can i help a 16 yr old with 2 babies... :wall:
when it came to his funeral, she kept being approached by people asking if i and xh were ok and stuff, and she said "no need to worry, its not like she didnt know he was dead"
i stopped talking to her after that for a while i couldnt cope with her and my lose and having a newborn baby, all at 16, when i got back in contact with her just shy of my ds's 1st bday, she complained that i had abandoned her in her time of grief of her grandson and deprived her of ds. i just ignored it, by thrn i was pregnant again, and she went onto say, you cant replace isaiah you know. he wasnt meant to be yours, it remindss me when i has a m/c... Tuned out after the word "I"
During all this she still to this day protests that SHE raised my children, she woke up to them at night, she spent the time in hossy while ds1 had pneumonia and other issues, and when ds2 was in SCn after birth for a while, she bought their stuff etc... Complete fantasy, i wish i could sya she did anything but put me down and make me depressed.
When my XDH cheated on me, she actually sided with him, he used to come around and beat me up due to his own guilt and in front of my boys and he nearly killed me twice, once nearly stabbed me with a pen in my neck and the second time threw a car jack at me just missing my head, and her response " you have to learn top shut your mouth, havent i taught you anything?
I was living by myself with my boys at 18 nearly 19 yrs of age, and she never helped me, my nan did, when i rebelled my nan looked after those boys..
She loved my XDH cause he showeredc her with gifts that he used to throw money at her, buy her what ever she wanted take her to the pubs and clubs etc etc, But if you ever say what did I and xdh buy her, its "not her he did, it was his money, she never buys me anything"
Thats why her and my dh dont get along.
the famous lines i love more than ever NOT are :
* you owe me every cent you have for what i had to fork out for you
* your ungrateful, you never appreciate anything
* i had to give up all my hopes and dremas to be your mother (rather wished she hadnt and left me where i was)
*your nothing, you'll never be anything
* if only you had your mothers looks, you'd be gorgeous
so many more i could go on for ever
I remember when me and xdh seperated he locked me up in his house for 3 months and towards the end went overseas, and my mum came, i was about 42 kg, and im 5tft9, and i was limp on the lounge, and she walked in and started going crazy, Look at you!! why didnt you call me? how could you let yourself get like this, im going to take you to the hossy, im going to make you eat.
I had bullemia FFS, i couldnt eat!! she told the hospital i was weird, that i made myself sick, i have a good life and im throwing it down the drain cause im selfish, she has done everything she can for me..
Man i could go on and on and on about her... its not funny, some it sounds far fetched but if you grew up with me and knew my true friends you would know its no lie, that i count my blessings everyday that im not dead, that i didnt kill myself or become a complete drug addict or anything really..
No matter what she has done i know this is her, and will never change, but for me to rid her out of my life would be like i had to move to another country and change my identity she would hunt me down..
I get this ALL the time. If I have to hear one more person say "I don't know what you're complaining about, your mum's so nice" or " I don't know what you're talking about she seems really sweet" or "she's only doing it because she really loves you" or "wow you're mum is so good to you!" I'm going to go postal. My mother does things for me because then I am indebted to her - I had one phone bill that was really high when I was 16 and I STILL hear about it. Its been nearly 6 years! GTFO it woman!:
Totally relate to the money thing, dad use to have his will so that his mum got a 3rd and mum and I got a 3rd each but her third was for me when I was over 18.
Anyway 2 years before dad died he changed it so I got 100%, boy oh boy didn't the guilt trips start when the money came in. I "owed" her this that and everything else. I ended up giving her $50k thinking that would be the end of it, when my tax return came in which was almost $50k she expected more.....its always more I can never repay my "debt" with her.
Even now she talks about if I win the lotto how much I should give to her (usually around 25-50%) but if she wins she's going to buy me a house.......
And the looks thing, "you would be so pretty if you lost some weight like me" GGGRRRRR
I always get: 'You were such a beautiful baby...what happened?' or 'The genes were there you were just too stupid to chose the right ones.' Yes, because the fact that she chose to marry and procreate with my father who looks like the jockey sized lovechild of Mr. Plod and the Monopoly man has absolutely nothing to do with it and the fact I'm short can't possibly be anyone else's fault accept for mine!
This to me sounds like my mum, but not big noting myself i am not an ugly lady (lol @lady) i am quite happy to say i pride myself in my looks, but when my mum put me down about how i looked like a little hairy wog or that i wish i inherited the blonde hair blue eyes, i grew up to realise that she was jealous of me and my looks, i looke dnothing like my mothers daughter and would comment on how my dark features were so enticing.. they didnt comment on her, so she would use an insult to cover her feelings of jealousy..:
I bet your beautiful, tall or short, doesnt measure up to whats inside and you sound perfect to me, you all do, we all are
oh wow!!! I had no idea there were so many of us. This is a sad thread. Well, it makes me sad to admit that my mother is also like this and that so many of you have had such hard experiences. Much harder than me, I think I got off reasonably mildly, although I have a double whammy as my Dad also has a form NPD but then I'd also say he has severe depression too. In actual fact I think he is pretty much a sociopath and his life is one big mystery. My Dad was also a compulsive liar and possibly still is...I only see him at family functions and we say very little to each other. He had affairs for years - led a double or triple life, and although mum and dad separated 6 years ago, they still spend alot of time together and mum still seems to worship the ground he walks on. But with both parents having such major issues, its made it hard.
I guess Ive known for a while that my mother fits into this category (I would also say that some of the traits she has would be considered 'mild' or even non existent, whereas there are several traits on the NPD list you could give her 10 out of 10).
Ive been in denial about my mum falling into this category since I find it so hard to deal with. Reading the 'Children of Narcissistic Mothers' website was such an eye opener and I found it really validating, so thank you to whoever posted the link initially (I cant go back to check now to see who posted the link!).
On the surface, people would think I have a great relationship with my mum and I suppose that these days, I do - mostly. I think she has changed a bit and by the age of 36, Ive also learnt how to bite back, keep a fair amount of our interactions on my terms, and understand the boundaries etc and say "no" to her and just not enter into the drama and the "hurt" that me saying "no" causes as I know its all total cr&p. I suppose I have trained her a bit - and she has come to accept that if she wants me in her life then this is the way it is.
But at the same time, I still often feel quite compromised and like Im doing things to keep her happy - and I dont always bite back and pull her up with her negative comments about me. These lifetime habits are hard to break. I still feel as though she tries to deliberately humiliate me in front of others and that she loves to tell the story of what a little bi&ch I was as a teenager, or how mean I was to my brothers when I was a child....almost blaming me for their issues in adulthood, that it was all because I was so mean to them when they were growing up. I know that the reality of the situation is that she suffers immense guilt at her own behaviour and abuse towards them....that I am merely a scapegoat and that I was only a child myself trying to live in a tough family situation. She also loves to tell everyone how demanding I was in getting my own way, when in reality, I know that I was just trying to get some fairness with an incredibly self absorbed mother! When she does this, I sometimes fantasize about how I will speak to her "next time". She is very quick witted and sharp tongued, and I find it hard to think of something on the spot...but then I'll go home and think of what I could have said back - or what I could say next time. Its awful because then I build up a lot of anger and never get to actually express it.
When we bought our house, my mum came over to inspect and the first and pretty much only thing she said was "pity it isnt in the next street along, that street is so pretty". She then went on to tell me later that my aunty said "glad its them and not me" since it needed doing up.
On my wedding day, as my Dad was walking me down the isle his only comment to me was "this is all a bit pretentious". That was his only comment to me. I certainly didn't have either parent telling me how happy they were, or that I made a beautiful bride...or that they were even excited that their only daughter was about to get married. But for some reason on the day, I was able to let my Dad's comment wash straight over me. At the time I thought to myself - you are one sad and pathetic man. This is one of the happiest days of my life and your comments mean nothing to me, they dont affect me, and say more about you and your patheticness. However I think this was a defense mechanism at the time to get me through the moment. I didn't actually let the comment sink in until weeks after the wedding when I finally let myself acknowledge how awful it was that he tried to dampen his daughter's spirits at such a moment.
anyway like most of you I could go on, but this thread is really helpful and amazing...so thank you. I look forward to reading other people's comments and stories!! And I might go and write myself some positive affirmations to help soothe my mood, because this has stirred up a lot of emotion!!
oh my gosh this thread is lightbulb moment to lightbulb moment for me. my aunt left her estate to my 2 brothers and me, however my brother died 25 years ago but my aunt never changed the will, my mum decided my aunt would want her to have my brothers share (even though she was left some money in it herself). it was a substantial amount of money and i couldn't believe she had the nerve to ask me for a 3rd (so instead of half half with my brother it would be thirds between us). i was so upset she could ask, we had a mortgage and 2 small children but didn't want to upset things so reluctantly gave her some, it was about half what she wanted when the fallout happened. she since sent me a letter asking for her money and saying legally i don't have to do it but morally thats a different story, i was shocked she could lecture me on morals !!:
sparklez: massive :hug: to you, im sorry to hear about all the things you have been through. i also want to give you a big pat on the back for getting to where you are now, you are obviously so strong
strawberryfields: gggrrr doesn't the isn't she wonderful comments do your head in
justme: thanks for putting all those links in, im stunned that a lot of what i have experienced actually has a name to put to it !
Guilt is the biggest thing. For me it was always a question of "Should I have done this differently?" and "Am I overreacting?". And then when DH cut ties, it was such a burden for such a long time. I didn't want a broken family, I worked so hard to make sure that effort was always made. But it didn't matter what I did, what we did as a couple. It was never good enough. And I've learned to accept it was nothing I did. Nothing DH did. Our marriage got so much stronger once we'd passed the grieving stage of cutting ties. We were truly happy for the first time. It took a long time to get to this point and sometimes they shake it again and throw a spanner at us, but it makes us all the more determined and sure that we've done the right thing.
Just Me - you've been amazing through my struggle with all of this and I've learned to deal with it and live with it. I read your post where you said about your kids having a whole family they don't know. I totally get where you're coming from and it's a hard one to deal with. Thank you for all of your support :hug:
I get "You inherited every single one of our bad genes combined. Pity you didn't inherit any of our good ones". My Dad also told me in relation to finding a partner "You really shouldn't set your standards too high. You should be grateful for whoever comes along". These things were not yelled at me in the middle of arguments, they were said in quite calm moments when we were getting along okay. When I was younger I agreed with both statements and thought they were a fair observation. Now I am horrified that my own parents would say things like this to me ... not even as a reaction to me in an argument but in times of peace because this is what they really think.:
Did you see this part about enabling fathers: Enabling Father - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers They can also exhibit narcissistic rage.:
I'm so glad that this thread is so helpful for you. It's not easy, but it is good to feel like you aren't entirely alone and it's nice to know that other people understand. I think after a lifetime of being told that I am overreacting to my Dad's behaviour and to my MIL's behaviour, it is nice to be able to share my stories and for other people to understand what was really going on. It doesn't make me feel as crazy.
I am beginning to think my mother isn't so bad after reading some of your stories! Maybe it is just my issue - my sister has few problems, after all. My mother is just... I don't know... mild in comparison. ...
I nearly choked at my SIL's baby shower (held at MIL's place and including as many of her friends as SIL's) when one of her friends gushed next to me about how MIL was the best grandmother ever! I almost cheekily turned to her and said "oh, I didn't know she had more children!" At that time DD had been the only grandchild for four and a half years and we were not the favoured ones.:
I think this is such a common theme for many of us. We question ourselves because children of parents with NPD have been brainwashed from a young age that the parent is always right and that we are the ones with the problem if we decide to question things....that we are wrong and that yes, we are overreacting! That also extends to removing our right to get upset over things. I couldn't count the amount of times I was told to stop crying or got in trouble or was even laughed at or belittled for getting upset over things as a child- my emotions were rarely acknowledged or validated any proper sense. Now that I look back, I had every right to be upset over things and my reactions were normal, but I was made to feel really small and needy for having a normal reaction. It makes you feel like you are not important and that you are selfish for wanting some of your basic needs met or emotions acknowledged. I'll never forget when there was a mouse in my room and my parents just didn't believe me. I had seen it, I had heard it, I was scared of it - I had trouble sleeping at night. But according to them it was my "imagination" and I was "overly sensitive" and "hysterical" and "wanting attention". I was 13 or 14 at the time, and I took myself of to a hardware store, bought myself some sealant, sealed all of the holes in the floor, set a mouse trap and voila - caught the mouse myself. They never bothered apologising, of course.:
I think the biggest impact this kind of behaviour can have is on our self-esteem as adults. I have to continuously work on this, and I also suffer from ongoing anxiety.
Thanks JustMe for that Enabling Father link - I will have a look at it now!!!
Agree also PcRakMG that the guilt part is hard. And Jennifer yes - my mother is seen by the general community as being an amazing woman, everyone who meets her says so, she is a teacher and is a totally different person out in public.
cjane - My mother would constantly bait me about touchy issues (like if I was having trouble with my bf, or my weight, or I didn't get invited to a party) and she would just push the issue until I was either crying, or so angry I was ready to physically lash out (once I actually threw a knife at her, luckily for her I have terrible aim) and then she would laugh at me for being so oversensitive or emotional. Its no wonder for years I had so much trouble being honest with myself and other people! I also suffer from anxiety issues and have been prescribed medication for it in the past. I think I might also have fibromyalgia but its never been diagnosed or anything.
JM - I just wanted to tell you I sat down this morning and opened the DONM link and I nearly cried through the reading. My head is swimming and as I was reading I literally could feel a loosening of some kind in my shoulders, like years and years of abuse and crap was finally being heard by someone who believed me. Cannot say it is a sense of relief because now I really do feel like I need help. I need to unlearn everything she has said, I need to find out who I am as a really decent, caring loving woman that I KNOW I am.
My head feels like its going to explode ...........
I don't know who to go to, do I see a GP and ask for a referral to a therapist of some kind? Do I say outwardly "I believe my mother has NPD" and I have just become aware of the problem now I need someone to help me through my 30 something years of torment?
I am not going to buy that persons book, but I need something so I can finally straighten out my shambled life so that I can be the best damn person and mother I can without falling back into old traps.
Any ideas ??
Nae
PLease tell me you are not serious hun, just because a level is not the same as others doesn't mean she doesn't have NPD. I read the characteristics from the link Just Me posted and some I could not relate to, Some I could relate to from when I was a child only, some as an adult only and some from years and years.:
There are different levels to domestic violence, child abuse etc that doesn't mean the offender is less guilty of the act jus because she/he wasn't as bad as the OP :hug:
Nae x
I am serious, Nae - sure, she does things I don't like but how much is her and how much is me? I found a link (website name is Will I ever be good enough? and it's a 33q survey to see if your mother may have NPD, but advertising a book so I won't post the link) and questions like "6.Have you consistently felt a lack of emotional closeness with your mother?" - well, yes, but I also have been told I have Asperger's, which would cover that. Or how about two questions "Did you have to take care of your mother’s physical needs as a child?" and the same for emotional needs - I took a year out of school to look after my mother who was leaning heavily on my support, but then when I have a fit and no-one is around to look after me I've needed Liebling to look after both of us before (on meds now thankfully so not any more), surely taking care of an ill parent isn't ideal but also is it NPD? So much of this is how I percieve she feels towards me - I can give quotes from her but she tells me that I have taken her words the wrong way. I may have done. I don't really know any more.
...
I think, for me, the reason I'm questioning it is because she does so much for the community. ...
If you have Aspie then I do too ..... and I am serious.
I will try to find that page you mentioned but am wondering if you have read the link from Just Me from the DONM site? The more I went through the pages the more I realised (in my case) NPD's are VERY good at doing things to make themself look better, perhaps she is telling you these things as a way to emotionally "control" you. From what I read its part and parcel of the training you ...
Only you can be the true judge but reading some of your posts honestly you are in here for the right reasons. and questioning yourself is very a normal response to the whole DONM thing.
As I said there are levels of it and just because your case isn't as bad as someone elses doesn't mean your not a DONM its just the degree of it
Huge Hugs x x x x x x
I have read those pages. The reason I'm questioning it is that she doesn't seem to have this grandiosity about her (is that even a word?) and she won't refuse to talk to people "beneath" her. I know she has a bit of an "us and them" about her, which has developed more and more as she's become older and close-minded, but she won't not be nice to someone. Just call me and slag them off behind their backs.
:) Trust me, I am behaving with taught behaviours whenever I interact with people, on-line or not. I remember how much I shamed my mother with my single-minded and boring behaviour as a child and don't want to end up with no friends. The few schoolfriends I had like the weird side of me, but not many do.
Hugs to you Hun, at the end of the day you have to decide whether you think your mum is a NPD or not, the traits, the behavior etc..
Even if it doesn't match up and it isn't still doesn't mean you haven't suffered due to any reason, your more than welcome to post and contribute as much ad anyone else with NPD or not..
Not saying this is for victims and that, but you have suffered in your life, whether it be to an undiagnosis or at the hands of your supposed protector, :hug: I get what your trying to say the flying butter and I can see why you don't think it's part of this issue but you have been through alot an I support you :) Itms? Lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk xoxox
Nae, I am so glad that you finally feel like someone understands. It is an amazing feeling. I would say that reading the DONM website was a lightbulb moment for me but it was a bit more like a floodlight in a football stadium. I came across it because I heard the word 'Narcissism' mentioned in general conversation (not in relation to anyone someone said the word) and I didn't know what it meant so I googled and and stumbled across the DONM website. It described both my MIL and my father.
I really don't know where you go from here. I saw a psychologist in relation to something else who confirmed that was most probably the case. They really can't give a diagnosis for sure. Maybe see your GP and say you would like a referral to a psychologist. I think if you get a referral from your GP some of your psychologist fees are covered under medicare where they wouldn't be otherwise. A psychologist might be able to tell you where to go from there.
I didn't buy the DONM book either. For me having a label and knowing I am not so alone has been enough but in recent weeks I have been diagnosed with a couple of different anxiety disorders, depression, panic disorder and been flagged as a risk for post traumatic stress disorder so I am not avoiding therapy at all but I am learning strategies for dealing with my ongoing anxiety that stems from my past. It has hit a point for me where I am not coping as well as I thought I was and I have had to get help.
I am so glad you checked out the link and you are starting to get some answers and understand what has happened to you and why you feel the way you do. I hope that it starts to help you feel like you are the normal, sane one and it is your mother who has the issues. I think that is what I have appreciated the most about understanding NPD - I am not the cause of every problem in my family, with my parents and with my PIL and there is a name for it. It was such a huge breakthrough.
Flying Butter - My N dad has incredibly low self esteem. I think most N's do. That's why they need validation, why they have to blame everyone else for their problems. My dad talks to me about how bad he feels about himself too and usually it is followed up with a request for something he wants to do. Everyone thinks my dad is wonderful and he does all kinds of volunteer work and work in the church (I don't know what it is about churches attracting narcississts but many of them seem to go to church also). Everybody seriously thinks he is amazing. Same with MIL. I have so many people tell me that I am lucky to have her for my MIL and they wish their MIL was as nice as mine. They have no idea. N are very good at keeping up appearances.
As Nae said, only you can say for sure, but I think your posts do sound like your mum has NPD. Even the amount of self doubt in your last post suggests that more is going on. Even if you don't think she has NPD, it doesn't sound like the things that your mum has said and done over the years are entirely normal. Also, if she is anything like my Dad, she would be a master at expecting you to be the adult while they acted like the child throughout your entire life.
An example from my own life - we live in a very hot place and the only airconditioner in the house was in my parent's room. We didn't even have ceiling fans. We always spent time in my parents room because it was airconditioned until one week my dad decided that he didn't want us to do that anymore. I walked home from school one afternoon that week and no-one else was home and it was hot so I turned on my parents' aircon and watched TV in their room. My Dad came home and lost the plot at me. My mum got angry at him for not sharing the room and threw the remote control and broke it. My dad decided that since the remote was broken the TV was no good without it and so he threw the whole TV and smashed it on the floor. The whole incident was my fault. I was grounded for ages as a result of that because if I hadn't been in their room, it would never have happened. He didn't have to take responsibility for his actions ... never at any point did he recognise that he had a choice and he was the one who threw the TV. If I hadn't been in his room in the first place, it never would have happened. For years I thought it was my fault and I thought that I provoked him to do it and if I was only better and hadn't been there, it wouldn't have happened. But he was the grown up and he had choices. I was a child and it didn't matter what I did wrong, he had no right to throw that TV. It wasn't my fault.
None of my brothers see a problem with anything my dad did and they defend him and tell me how lucky we were because he was and is an awesome dad. When I first started to realise that maybe the things that had happened when we were kids was possible abuse, I tried to talk to them about it and they just told me to stop being so stupid. For a while, it reiterated the message in my mind that I was the cause of all the problems between me and my parents and any problems (even ones that I wasn't involved) between other family members. Even now I question whether I am overreacting because none of them can see a problem with it and they blame my mum for any of the issues they do have (whole different set of issues there but my dad is perfect in their eyes and any imperfections belong to my mum). I felt so responsible for everything for such a long time and even now, I make a conscious decision on a daily basis to not feel guilty for things that happened and are still happening because it is not my fault.
Don't feel either that just because someone else has posted a 'worse' story than yours that your experiences aren't valid. Abuse is abuse. No matter how big or small, it leave emtional scarring and it can take a long time to heal. Sometimes it can take a long time to realise the depth of the pain caused by the abuse. At times I wonder what I am bothered about and at other times, I can feel so suffocated by the things that happened to me.
Keep thinking about it. Only you can know for sure but I wanted to share my impressions with you and see if any of it rings true.
My MIL is a counsellor and all her friends are people that she counsells. She has them around because - they are the only people that can tolerate her over a long time, she can manipulate them easily because they are unstable and because they make her feel better about herself. She is always comparing herself to them and she is convinced she is better than them. I think she generally avoids people who are stable because they don't feed her narcissistic need. She also likes having friends with very little money because she can be 'generous' - her 'generosity' is completely impractical because it is actually about flaunting what she has and not about helping them at all. It's all part of the dillusion of grandeur and what you describe sounds spot on to me :):
Lol this sound like my mum!! To the tea, she forgets her problems and/or her children's and concentrates on a strangers..:
I remember recently I was in a difficult situation with my Dh's family and asked her to watch the kids for 30 min and she replied" sorry can't, looking after so and so's kids when I asked why she informed me " why are you asking why? What's it any of your business? And if your big nose really has to know, because she is out getting her nails done" FFs dh's grandmother just died and we were going to wash her body, but I was wrong cause apparently I shouldn't ask why she has her neighbor of 3 months kids but in an emergency she can't have her nosey dd kids?
Apparently het neighbor and her dh were having issues so my mun took her kids to go have a break after talking to my mum for 5 hrs.. And dr Phil (mum) decided she owed it to herself to go and pamper herself.
So I missed out on this whole thing and had to take my kids to the cemetery to sit on the car while she was buried, cause in our religion woman aren't meant to be at the burial.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk xoxox
It's so hard, well for me at least. But she has emotionally abused me, lies to me about her behaviour, calls me names to my face (but praises me behind my back, according to DH and sis) and constantly told me my emotions/actions/language was "wrong", so I guess that fits with being a narc mother. She also uses deliberatly hurtful words when I do something she dislikes - which is a lot of the time.
I suppose the reason my sister is favoured over me is that she was the "bad" one. I got told off, I learnt a new behavioural rule, I stuck to it. Mum slagged off other people, I learnt not to do that. I was super-good. Nothing to whinge about to her friends - so my sister got her SOOOO much sympathy she milked it big time. Gotta love the child who gets you the most attention, right? I'm so glad she ignored me for years! It makes it easier to see through her now, that she ignored me when I needed her just because she wanted the attention my sister's actions gave her.
I suppose I need to check that she really is this sick and it isn't me wanting to label things and feeling aggrieved over nothing again.
Oooh, Sparklez, that really is awful. I am so mad for you! I know I have been upset when mum prioritises playgroup/rainbows over me and Liebs when I have been ill, but what your mother did is so much worse.
Sounds like NPD to me ... there are a number of reasons that NPD parents will praise you behind your back but treat you horribly to your face. They view you as an extension of themselves therefore any achievement, any success, any of your good qualities can all be attributed to them. They tell other people because they are taking credit for it. They never have to tell you because they have twisted it to believe that you should be thankful to them for all of your good qualities and achievements - in their minds, it is only because of them that you can be that fabulous or do that well. It also serves the purpose of making them look like a doting mother/father. If you ever get the courage to say to someone else that you don't like is going on, they have already set it up so that no-one will believe you (it is actually a pretty classic trait of abuse).:
They put you down to your face because your 'horrible' qualities and your failures have nothing to do with them except makes them look bad in front of their friends. They also do it to control you, because narcissists get a bit of a kick out of getting an emotional reaction from other people and because they need to blame someone else for their own shortcomings. Children are the perfect people to do this to because they are 100% dependent on their parents. They rely on their parents for everything - basic surivival needs, their needs for love, belonging and affection - children are completely dependent. NPD's are in a great position with their children and can condition them by not meeting their emotional or physical needs when they don't comply. By the time you are grown, you are so conditioned by the behaviour of your NPD parent, it is hard to identify what they are doing. To even discover that it is not normal and most families are not like this is a HUGE step. If you have never known anything else, it seems normal, but it isn't.
Most children of narcissists are conditioned to please their parents or face the horrendous consequences. I think that is why guilt is such a strong emotion in this thread, as well as self doubt because we have been taught to feel guilty for anything that goes wrong and if we ever questioned anything that happened our N parent would gaslight us and make us feel crazy. I seriously don't think that anyone could come out of a childhood like that and feel confident and good about themselves without working through a lot of issues.
Narcissism is hard because it is invisible and hard to identify because people on the outside can't see it and people close to it are so conditioned to think the problem lies with them rather than with the narcissist.
Sparklez - thats awful! What a biatch!
I wonder how many of us have been diagnosed or possibly have other disorders because of our parents. I suffer from anxiety and mild antisocial personality disorder (APD) which the psychologist at my uni said is extremely likely to be a lovely gift from my mother. Anyone else? Its cool if you're not comfortable sharing :)
I should add that my APD is well under control and don't worry I'm not going to go out there and go Joker on the world lol
Thanks Sparklez and Just Me - it's really kind of you to help me work my issues out with you.
I've had depression since age 7. I don't think I will ever be free of it, although I am OK at the moment.
I wasn't going to get specific because I feel like I have been sharing too many of my issues all over the forums already at the moment ... things always seem to come to a head at the same time ... but anyway, I feel like a bit of a hypocondriac. To be honest, it is also so much easier for me to share that other people have issues and admitting that I have a mental illness is not only new to me but something I don't like admitting. Having said that - I have been diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder with Agoraphobia, Major Depressive Disorder (all of those have been diagnosed at a moderate clinical level) and at a subclinical level (meaning I show signs of but don't have enough symptoms for a full diagnosis) Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and a Phobia Disorder and Insomnia.
I don't think all of mine are entirely environmental. I can see signs of all of them in various family members and I think they are partially genetic from both sides of my family. Experiences in my childhood have probably made it far worse than it is because I have a lot of unhealthy head talk going on but I think I would have struggled with these issues to some degree regardless. I have opted to stay off meds at this point in time but I am undergoing cognitive therapy which is helping I think. I am only in my second week of therapy but I am feeling much better about everything mostly because I feel like now I have a way out. I was feeling very trapped up until a few weeks ago which wasn't helping my symptoms.
I can't really talk to my family about my diagnosis though. DH is supportive of course, but most of my family don't believe in mental illness. Part of the reason my anxiety has become so bad in the last little while is because my whole life I have been told to 'snap out of it' and because I haven't been able to snap myself out of it, I have been more worried about my worry and it has made my anxiety much much worse.
Just Me- No dont feel like you have to hold back, these issues are happening and there happening now, you cant help that these all come to head at once, and as for your other threads, i can only say, you are a wonderful, inspirational and a very comapssionate woman. Regardless what has happened to you in life, you have taken it in and used it as a tool to create new paths for you and your family, to ensure your children arent exposed to this sort of issue..
The flying butter- Hun, No matter what it is that you have medically, it is no excuse for any parent nor adult to emotionally, physically, sexually abuse a child, no matter what circumstances are in place. A child is a child of innocense, a object that is frail and also extremely impressionalable and very naive and volatile.
It sounds like your mother did abuse you emotionally and at her own satisfaction. You never did anything to warrant any sort of emotional abuse and that to me is a violation of innocense no matter how severe.
Strawberry Fields- Yes, she is!! Lol. My mum is a multi-manipulator. She is perfect around stranegers but doesnt take her long to show her true colours and even then she will have any excuse to cover it up and they fall back in love with her again. She has suffered health wise, cancer and stuff, but i always supported her in any way possible, But her motto is "karma is a b***h" inwhich means, we did nothing for her so wait until your in this situation.
Also on the topic of mental illness due to these poeple lol.
I suffere from Bipolar Disorder. This was discovered around 18 months ago now. I have an extremely compulsive but also aggressive side that wil come from unwarranted but also am very volatile to certain situations.
I also suffer from Deep anxitey also, I have anxiety attacks when i start feeling threatened, or if i get certain vibes from people i dont trust, very weird i know lol
I suffer from Depression also which can kick in at the best of times :wall: which i hate because i go into a complete dazed and zombie like state. which effects my ability to parent. so that has to be closly monitored.
I am on meds for my Bipolar but thats all i will take right now, the bipolar tablets are very strong and carry alot of lithium in it which makes me ill alot.
Also think that i can show NPD signs but i think they are just mimic's from my mother itms?
I never ever put my kids down nor talk myself up and etc
:
this really stood out for me, when i was 10 my 19 year old brother died in a motorcycle accident, i only really remember life really from that moment and it wasn't pleasant, i thought she was like that because of my brother died but im now starting to feel otherwise........
when we had the falling out last year and i briefly spoke to my dad about it months later he basically tried to dismiss a lot of her behaviour as "you know what she is like" cause apparently that makes everything ok :wall:
the flying butter: i think you found yourself in this thread for a reason, don't get so hung up on not fitting all the criteria or other stories seem "worse" than yours, the bottom line is how you have been made to feel by your mothers behaviour
i haven't been diagnosed with a disorder as such but i did suffer a lot of anxiety with my 2nd child, at the time i put it down to him being a difficult baby & a close friend lost a baby at 4 months (he was 2 weeks older than my boy), so now im wondering if there was something else happening.
i am however quite overweight & i was through my childhood so im wondering if this is as a result of my mothers behaviour (does that sound like im grasping at straws, looking for someone to blame when maybe im just lazy ?)
so i have a question & it is probably a silly question but do people with npd realise what they are doing ? the one time i spoke up for myself i saw so much hate in my mothers eyes and she said what is this rubbish coming out of your mouth...in letters after this happened she kept going on about all i ever wanted was to be a wonderful mother but obviously i have failed miserably (this is all part of the guilt i guess)
since the fallout i wonder what she tells people about me, i heard on the grapevine that she was saying she didn't know what had happened, only that i was upset with her & she didn't know why. i can only imagine that she would be telling friends that i won't let her see the kids, the problem is people think she is wonderful so it really upsets me to think everyone must think its my fault & what a horrible person i must be
sparklez: that was a horrible thing for your mother to do :hug: