Children of Narcissistic Parents

[cjane]

oh wow!!! I had no idea there were so many of us. This is a sad thread. Well, it makes me sad to admit that my mother is also like this and that so many of you have had such hard experiences. Much harder than me, I think I got off reasonably mildly, although I have a double whammy as my Dad also has a form NPD but then I'd also say he has severe depression too. In actual fact I think he is pretty much a sociopath and his life is one big mystery. My Dad was also a compulsive liar and possibly still is...I only see him at family functions and we say very little to each other. He had affairs for years - led a double or triple life, and although mum and dad separated 6 years ago, they still spend alot of time together and mum still seems to worship the ground he walks on. But with both parents having such major issues, its made it hard.

I guess Ive known for a while that my mother fits into this category (I would also say that some of the traits she has would be considered 'mild' or even non existent, whereas there are several traits on the NPD list you could give her 10 out of 10).

Ive been in denial about my mum falling into this category since I find it so hard to deal with. Reading the 'Children of Narcissistic Mothers' website was such an eye opener and I found it really validating, so thank you to whoever posted the link initially (I cant go back to check now to see who posted the link!).

On the surface, people would think I have a great relationship with my mum and I suppose that these days, I do - mostly. I think she has changed a bit and by the age of 36, Ive also learnt how to bite back, keep a fair amount of our interactions on my terms, and understand the boundaries etc and say "no" to her and just not enter into the drama and the "hurt" that me saying "no" causes as I know its all total cr&p. I suppose I have trained her a bit - and she has come to accept that if she wants me in her life then this is the way it is.

But at the same time, I still often feel quite compromised and like Im doing things to keep her happy - and I dont always bite back and pull her up with her negative comments about me. These lifetime habits are hard to break. I still feel as though she tries to deliberately humiliate me in front of others and that she loves to tell the story of what a little bi&ch I was as a teenager, or how mean I was to my brothers when I was a child....almost blaming me for their issues in adulthood, that it was all because I was so mean to them when they were growing up. I know that the reality of the situation is that she suffers immense guilt at her own behaviour and abuse towards them....that I am merely a scapegoat and that I was only a child myself trying to live in a tough family situation. She also loves to tell everyone how demanding I was in getting my own way, when in reality, I know that I was just trying to get some fairness with an incredibly self absorbed mother! When she does this, I sometimes fantasize about how I will speak to her "next time". She is very quick witted and sharp tongued, and I find it hard to think of something on the spot...but then I'll go home and think of what I could have said back - or what I could say next time. Its awful because then I build up a lot of anger and never get to actually express it.

When we bought our house, my mum came over to inspect and the first and pretty much only thing she said was "pity it isnt in the next street along, that street is so pretty". She then went on to tell me later that my aunty said "glad its them and not me" since it needed doing up.

On my wedding day, as my Dad was walking me down the isle his only comment to me was "this is all a bit pretentious". That was his only comment to me. I certainly didn't have either parent telling me how happy they were, or that I made a beautiful bride...or that they were even excited that their only daughter was about to get married. But for some reason on the day, I was able to let my Dad's comment wash straight over me. At the time I thought to myself - you are one sad and pathetic man. This is one of the happiest days of my life and your comments mean nothing to me, they dont affect me, and say more about you and your patheticness. However I think this was a defense mechanism at the time to get me through the moment. I didn't actually let the comment sink in until weeks after the wedding when I finally let myself acknowledge how awful it was that he tried to dampen his daughter's spirits at such a moment.

anyway like most of you I could go on, but this thread is really helpful and amazing...so thank you. I look forward to reading other people's comments and stories!! And I might go and write myself some positive affirmations to help soothe my mood, because this has stirred up a lot of emotion!!

[minniemouse]

Totally relate to the money thing

oh my gosh this thread is lightbulb moment to lightbulb moment for me. my aunt left her estate to my 2 brothers and me, however my brother died 25 years ago but my aunt never changed the will, my mum decided my aunt would want her to have my brothers share (even though she was left some money in it herself). it was a substantial amount of money and i couldn't believe she had the nerve to ask me for a 3rd (so instead of half half with my brother it would be thirds between us). i was so upset she could ask, we had a mortgage and 2 small children but didn't want to upset things so reluctantly gave her some, it was about half what she wanted when the fallout happened. she since sent me a letter asking for her money and saying legally i don't have to do it but morally thats a different story, i was shocked she could lecture me on morals !!

sparklez: massive to you, im sorry to hear about all the things you have been through. i also want to give you a big pat on the back for getting to where you are now, you are obviously so strong


strawberryfields: gggrrr doesn't the isn't she wonderful comments do your head in

[minniemouse]

justme: thanks for putting all those links in, im stunned that a lot of what i have experienced actually has a name to put to it !

[Miss.September]

Guilt is the biggest thing. For me it was always a question of "Should I have done this differently?" and "Am I overreacting?". And then when DH cut ties, it was such a burden for such a long time. I didn't want a broken family, I worked so hard to make sure that effort was always made. But it didn't matter what I did, what we did as a couple. It was never good enough. And I've learned to accept it was nothing I did. Nothing DH did. Our marriage got so much stronger once we'd passed the grieving stage of cutting ties. We were truly happy for the first time. It took a long time to get to this point and sometimes they shake it again and throw a spanner at us, but it makes us all the more determined and sure that we've done the right thing.

Just Me - you've been amazing through my struggle with all of this and I've learned to deal with it and live with it. I read your post where you said about your kids having a whole family they don't know. I totally get where you're coming from and it's a hard one to deal with. Thank you for all of your support

[Just Me]

I always get: 'You were such a beautiful baby...what happened?' or 'The genes were there you were just too stupid to chose the right ones.' Yes, because the fact that she chose to marry and procreate with my father who looks like the jockey sized lovechild of Mr. Plod and the Monopoly man has absolutely nothing to do with it and the fact I'm short can't possibly be anyone else's fault accept for mine!

I get "You inherited every single one of our bad genes combined. Pity you didn't inherit any of our good ones". My Dad also told me in relation to finding a partner "You really shouldn't set your standards too high. You should be grateful for whoever comes along". These things were not yelled at me in the middle of arguments, they were said in quite calm moments when we were getting along okay. When I was younger I agreed with both statements and thought they were a fair observation. Now I am horrified that my own parents would say things like this to me ... not even as a reaction to me in an argument but in times of peace because this is what they really think.

[Just Me]

although I have a double whammy as my Dad also has a form NPD but then I'd also say he has severe depression too. In actual fact I think he is pretty much a sociopath and his life is one big mystery. My Dad was also a compulsive liar and possibly still is...I only see him at family functions and we say very little to each other. He had affairs for years - led a double or triple life, and although mum and dad separated 6 years ago, they still spend alot of time together and mum still seems to worship the ground he walks on. But with both parents having such major issues, its made it hard.

Did you see this part about enabling fathers: Enabling Father - Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers They can also exhibit narcissistic rage.

I'm so glad that this thread is so helpful for you. It's not easy, but it is good to feel like you aren't entirely alone and it's nice to know that other people understand. I think after a lifetime of being told that I am overreacting to my Dad's behaviour and to my MIL's behaviour, it is nice to be able to share my stories and for other people to understand what was really going on. It doesn't make me feel as crazy.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I am beginning to think my mother isn't so bad after reading some of your stories! Maybe it is just my issue - my sister has few problems, after all. My mother is just... I don't know... mild in comparison. ...

[Jennifer13]

I get this ALL the time. If I have to hear one more person say "I don't know what you're complaining about, your mum's so nice" or " I don't know what you're talking about she seems really sweet" or "she's only doing it because she really loves you" or "wow you're mum is so good to you!" I'm going to go postal. My mother does things for me because then I am indebted to her - I had one phone bill that was really high when I was 16 and I STILL hear about it. Its been nearly 6 years! GTFO it woman!

I nearly choked at my SIL's baby shower (held at MIL's place and including as many of her friends as SIL's) when one of her friends gushed next to me about how MIL was the best grandmother ever! I almost cheekily turned to her and said "oh, I didn't know she had more children!" At that time DD had been the only grandchild for four and a half years and we were not the favoured ones.

[cjane]

For me it was always a question of "Should I have done this differently?" and "Am I overreacting?".

I think this is such a common theme for many of us. We question ourselves because children of parents with NPD have been brainwashed from a young age that the parent is always right and that we are the ones with the problem if we decide to question things....that we are wrong and that yes, we are overreacting! That also extends to removing our right to get upset over things. I couldn't count the amount of times I was told to stop crying or got in trouble or was even laughed at or belittled for getting upset over things as a child- my emotions were rarely acknowledged or validated any proper sense. Now that I look back, I had every right to be upset over things and my reactions were normal, but I was made to feel really small and needy for having a normal reaction. It makes you feel like you are not important and that you are selfish for wanting some of your basic needs met or emotions acknowledged. I'll never forget when there was a mouse in my room and my parents just didn't believe me. I had seen it, I had heard it, I was scared of it - I had trouble sleeping at night. But according to them it was my "imagination" and I was "overly sensitive" and "hysterical" and "wanting attention". I was 13 or 14 at the time, and I took myself of to a hardware store, bought myself some sealant, sealed all of the holes in the floor, set a mouse trap and voila - caught the mouse myself. They never bothered apologising, of course.

I think the biggest impact this kind of behaviour can have is on our self-esteem as adults. I have to continuously work on this, and I also suffer from ongoing anxiety.

Thanks JustMe for that Enabling Father link - I will have a look at it now!!!

Agree also PcRakMG that the guilt part is hard. And Jennifer yes - my mother is seen by the general community as being an amazing woman, everyone who meets her says so, she is a teacher and is a totally different person out in public.

[StrawberryFields]

cjane - My mother would constantly bait me about touchy issues (like if I was having trouble with my bf, or my weight, or I didn't get invited to a party) and she would just push the issue until I was either crying, or so angry I was ready to physically lash out (once I actually threw a knife at her, luckily for her I have terrible aim) and then she would laugh at me for being so oversensitive or emotional. Its no wonder for years I had so much trouble being honest with myself and other people! I also suffer from anxiety issues and have been prescribed medication for it in the past. I think I might also have fibromyalgia but its never been diagnosed or anything.

[NaeNae]

JM - I just wanted to tell you I sat down this morning and opened the DONM link and I nearly cried through the reading. My head is swimming and as I was reading I literally could feel a loosening of some kind in my shoulders, like years and years of abuse and crap was finally being heard by someone who believed me. Cannot say it is a sense of relief because now I really do feel like I need help. I need to unlearn everything she has said, I need to find out who I am as a really decent, caring loving woman that I KNOW I am.

My head feels like its going to explode ...........

I don't know who to go to, do I see a GP and ask for a referral to a therapist of some kind? Do I say outwardly "I believe my mother has NPD" and I have just become aware of the problem now I need someone to help me through my 30 something years of torment?

I am not going to buy that persons book, but I need something so I can finally straighten out my shambled life so that I can be the best damn person and mother I can without falling back into old traps.

Any ideas ??

Nae

[NaeNae]

I am beginning to think my mother isn't so bad after reading some of your stories! Maybe it is just my issue - my sister has few problems, after all. My mother is just... I don't know... mild in comparison.

PLease tell me you are not serious hun, just because a level is not the same as others doesn't mean she doesn't have NPD. I read the characteristics from the link Just Me posted and some I could not relate to, Some I could relate to from when I was a child only, some as an adult only and some from years and years.

There are different levels to domestic violence, child abuse etc that doesn't mean the offender is less guilty of the act jus because she/he wasn't as bad as the OP

Nae x

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I am serious, Nae - sure, she does things I don't like but how much is her and how much is me? I found a link (website name is Will I ever be good enough? and it's a 33q survey to see if your mother may have NPD, but advertising a book so I won't post the link) and questions like "6.Have you consistently felt a lack of emotional closeness with your mother?" - well, yes, but I also have been told I have Asperger's, which would cover that. Or how about two questions "Did you have to take care of your mother’s physical needs as a child?" and the same for emotional needs - I took a year out of school to look after my mother who was leaning heavily on my support, but then when I have a fit and no-one is around to look after me I've needed Liebling to look after both of us before (on meds now thankfully so not any more), surely taking care of an ill parent isn't ideal but also is it NPD? So much of this is how I percieve she feels towards me - I can give quotes from her but she tells me that I have taken her words the wrong way. I may have done. I don't really know any more.

...

I think, for me, the reason I'm questioning it is because she does so much for the community. ...

[NaeNae]

If you have Aspie then I do too ..... and I am serious.

I will try to find that page you mentioned but am wondering if you have read the link from Just Me from the DONM site? The more I went through the pages the more I realised (in my case) NPD's are VERY good at doing things to make themself look better, perhaps she is telling you these things as a way to emotionally "control" you. From what I read its part and parcel of the training you ...

Only you can be the true judge but reading some of your posts honestly you are in here for the right reasons. and questioning yourself is very a normal response to the whole DONM thing.

As I said there are levels of it and just because your case isn't as bad as someone elses doesn't mean your not a DONM its just the degree of it

Huge Hugs x x x x x x

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I have read those pages. The reason I'm questioning it is that she doesn't seem to have this grandiosity about her (is that even a word?) and she won't refuse to talk to people "beneath" her. I know she has a bit of an "us and them" about her, which has developed more and more as she's become older and close-minded, but she won't not be nice to someone. Just call me and slag them off behind their backs.

Trust me, I am behaving with taught behaviours whenever I interact with people, on-line or not. I remember how much I shamed my mother with my single-minded and boring behaviour as a child and don't want to end up with no friends. The few schoolfriends I had like the weird side of me, but not many do.

[*Sparklez*]

Hugs to you Hun, at the end of the day you have to decide whether you think your mum is a NPD or not, the traits, the behavior etc..
Even if it doesn't match up and it isn't still doesn't mean you haven't suffered due to any reason, your more than welcome to post and contribute as much ad anyone else with NPD or not..
Not saying this is for victims and that, but you have suffered in your life, whether it be to an undiagnosis or at the hands of your supposed protector, I get what your trying to say the flying butter and I can see why you don't think it's part of this issue but you have been through alot an I support you Itms? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk xoxox

[Just Me]

Nae, I am so glad that you finally feel like someone understands. It is an amazing feeling. I would say that reading the DONM website was a lightbulb moment for me but it was a bit more like a floodlight in a football stadium. I came across it because I heard the word 'Narcissism' mentioned in general conversation (not in relation to anyone someone said the word) and I didn't know what it meant so I googled and and stumbled across the DONM website. It described both my MIL and my father.

I really don't know where you go from here. I saw a psychologist in relation to something else who confirmed that was most probably the case. They really can't give a diagnosis for sure. Maybe see your GP and say you would like a referral to a psychologist. I think if you get a referral from your GP some of your psychologist fees are covered under medicare where they wouldn't be otherwise. A psychologist might be able to tell you where to go from there.

I didn't buy the DONM book either. For me having a label and knowing I am not so alone has been enough but in recent weeks I have been diagnosed with a couple of different anxiety disorders, depression, panic disorder and been flagged as a risk for post traumatic stress disorder so I am not avoiding therapy at all but I am learning strategies for dealing with my ongoing anxiety that stems from my past. It has hit a point for me where I am not coping as well as I thought I was and I have had to get help.

I am so glad you checked out the link and you are starting to get some answers and understand what has happened to you and why you feel the way you do. I hope that it starts to help you feel like you are the normal, sane one and it is your mother who has the issues. I think that is what I have appreciated the most about understanding NPD - I am not the cause of every problem in my family, with my parents and with my PIL and there is a name for it. It was such a huge breakthrough.

Flying Butter - My N dad has incredibly low self esteem. I think most N's do. That's why they need validation, why they have to blame everyone else for their problems. My dad talks to me about how bad he feels about himself too and usually it is followed up with a request for something he wants to do. Everyone thinks my dad is wonderful and he does all kinds of volunteer work and work in the church (I don't know what it is about churches attracting narcississts but many of them seem to go to church also). Everybody seriously thinks he is amazing. Same with MIL. I have so many people tell me that I am lucky to have her for my MIL and they wish their MIL was as nice as mine. They have no idea. N are very good at keeping up appearances.

As Nae said, only you can say for sure, but I think your posts do sound like your mum has NPD. Even the amount of self doubt in your last post suggests that more is going on. Even if you don't think she has NPD, it doesn't sound like the things that your mum has said and done over the years are entirely normal. Also, if she is anything like my Dad, she would be a master at expecting you to be the adult while they acted like the child throughout your entire life.

An example from my own life - we live in a very hot place and the only airconditioner in the house was in my parent's room. We didn't even have ceiling fans. We always spent time in my parents room because it was airconditioned until one week my dad decided that he didn't want us to do that anymore. I walked home from school one afternoon that week and no-one else was home and it was hot so I turned on my parents' aircon and watched TV in their room. My Dad came home and lost the plot at me. My mum got angry at him for not sharing the room and threw the remote control and broke it. My dad decided that since the remote was broken the TV was no good without it and so he threw the whole TV and smashed it on the floor. The whole incident was my fault. I was grounded for ages as a result of that because if I hadn't been in their room, it would never have happened. He didn't have to take responsibility for his actions ... never at any point did he recognise that he had a choice and he was the one who threw the TV. If I hadn't been in his room in the first place, it never would have happened. For years I thought it was my fault and I thought that I provoked him to do it and if I was only better and hadn't been there, it wouldn't have happened. But he was the grown up and he had choices. I was a child and it didn't matter what I did wrong, he had no right to throw that TV. It wasn't my fault.

None of my brothers see a problem with anything my dad did and they defend him and tell me how lucky we were because he was and is an awesome dad. When I first started to realise that maybe the things that had happened when we were kids was possible abuse, I tried to talk to them about it and they just told me to stop being so stupid. For a while, it reiterated the message in my mind that I was the cause of all the problems between me and my parents and any problems (even ones that I wasn't involved) between other family members. Even now I question whether I am overreacting because none of them can see a problem with it and they blame my mum for any of the issues they do have (whole different set of issues there but my dad is perfect in their eyes and any imperfections belong to my mum). I felt so responsible for everything for such a long time and even now, I make a conscious decision on a daily basis to not feel guilty for things that happened and are still happening because it is not my fault.

Don't feel either that just because someone else has posted a 'worse' story than yours that your experiences aren't valid. Abuse is abuse. No matter how big or small, it leave emtional scarring and it can take a long time to heal. Sometimes it can take a long time to realise the depth of the pain caused by the abuse. At times I wonder what I am bothered about and at other times, I can feel so suffocated by the things that happened to me.

Keep thinking about it. Only you can know for sure but I wanted to share my impressions with you and see if any of it rings true.

[Just Me]

I have read those pages. The reason I'm questioning it is that she doesn't seem to have this grandiosity about her (is that even a word?) and she won't refuse to talk to people "beneath" her. I know she has a bit of an "us and them" about her, which has developed more and more as she's become older and close-minded, but she won't not be nice to someone. Just call me and slag them off behind their backs.

Trust me, I am behaving with taught behaviours whenever I interact with people, on-line or not. I remember how much I shamed my mother with my single-minded and boring behaviour as a child and don't want to end up with no friends. The few schoolfriends I had like the weird side of me, but not many do.

My MIL is a counsellor and all her friends are people that she counsells. She has them around because - they are the only people that can tolerate her over a long time, she can manipulate them easily because they are unstable and because they make her feel better about herself. She is always comparing herself to them and she is convinced she is better than them. I think she generally avoids people who are stable because they don't feed her narcissistic need. She also likes having friends with very little money because she can be 'generous' - her 'generosity' is completely impractical because it is actually about flaunting what she has and not about helping them at all. It's all part of the dillusion of grandeur and what you describe sounds spot on to me