So... have you talked about it with your kids?

[kirsty_lee]

10 little fingers is the BEST book. I read that to DD every night. I love it.

The reason I asked my question Leasha, is what about parents who are like devout religious people who obviously think homosexuality is wrong or whatever, and they choose to teach their children their beliefs. Does that make them bad parents?

[Inanna]

I think it doesn't make them "bad". I don't think we are either bad or good.
What I think is that loving acceptance of diversity and difference had a very positive impact on how children perceive or fear difference.

I know people who are very devoutly religious and are gay!!! Being gay doesn't preclude you from having a religion.

I also know some devoutly religious people who feel that homosexuality is "wrong". I know of parents who have this belief system who still with kindness accept the difference without anger or unkindness but say: in our religion we don't believe this is how God wants us to be"...

I think it must be difficult for these parents and myself being devoutly spiritual! I cannot answer from a personal perspective.

[Indadhanu]

In my eyes, if they can't bring themselves to teach children about tolerance and respect, then yes I do believe they are failing their kids and society in general.

I will teach Jazz that everyone is entitled to an opinon, and even when we don't agree we can still treat them with the same respect we want to be given by them.
They're entitled to believe that it's 'wrong' just as much as I'm entitled to believe that its 'right'. (well, as long as their decision is 'informed' and not based on some dumb belief like gay men are peadophiles, or that homosexuals want to take over the world)

Besides, my issue is with kids understanding and being tolerate to Jazz, who has two mums through no fault of her own. I'm not saying that everyone needs to accept gay/lesbian lifestyle. Just treat my daughter with the respect she deserves.

[kirsty_lee]

I just want to make it clear that I am in NO way against homesexuality, god please don't think that. I don't see any difference between me and my dp and Leash and Shel, apart from anatomry obviously kwim. And I certainly want ava to grow up understanding that too. Was just curious about people who just don't entertain the idea at all

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Actually, Leasha, I refuse to teach tolerance. I teach acceptance because to tolerate is to put up with until you can get rid of it. To accept is to appreciate and love. I adore diversity, differences and the things we can learn from each other. I'm not tolerant and I'm not always tactful, but I do love that everyone is different and we can enjoy that.

My mum taught me to accept other people... but now I'm older I realise she only meant in their own countries! You can't come here and do things the way you do over "there"! I think that is ridiculous: if you aren't hurting anyone and are part of the community, why not learn something about other people rather than criticising a dress code different from your own. Just my thoughts. My mum is tolerant (except for behind closed doors) and I don't want to teach that.

eta - just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I can't like gay people! OK so if I think about the mechanics I get icky but then that's the same for a heterosexual couple. Anything more than holding hands is too icky. Body fluids... eugh! (Slightly prudish here - but nothing to do with my faith, just me!)

[Indadhanu]

You're wonderful Ryn
Sometimes all you can expect from some people is tolerance, but yes you're exactly right acceptance is much better. I'd love everyone to be accepting, but thats a tall ask for some, so I just hope for tolerance and respect.

[Willow]

Nope, I haven't talked about it to my kids. My eldest is only 4 though and it has never come up. If and when it comes up in the course of day to day life, then I will talk to her about it.

I have my own personal beliefs about it but I want her to make up her own mind. So I will explain it to her in a matter of fact way, just like any thing else, and what she does with that is up to her as she matures and has a better understanding of life.

My DH can also be homophobic and racist at times, but this is something I don't tolerate and I always pull him up on it. Especially now that DD is old enough to take these comments on board.

[luna moth]

Maybe think about this: my child goes to school at age 5. Says "I have two mums". All the kids who have never heard of someone having two mums say "NO you CAN'T have two mums". My child gets upset "yes you can, because I do". None of these kids have ever heard of someone having two mums. "Wow, thats weird" they say, "wow, you're weird". Now my child is the weird kid, gets teased. All because some parents think its too hard for them to talk about. But how hard is it going to be for my child if you don't? I'd say A LOT harder than you saying one simple setence in passing every now and then to your kids?

Actually, in 10 years working with under 5s, I have found the opposite of this scenario to be true. I had a 4 year old once suggest to me that I marry another mum because it would be good to have two mums. But quite apart from him, I have often seen two-mum families played out in dramatic play scenarios. Naturally, kids are open-minded to this, and it's adults around them who squash it.

It's not always deliberate - the children do sometimes come to the conclusion themselves that it "can't" happen because they don't see it. It's why I believe things like the Todd Parr books or that Play School segment that got banned are important - it's really good for kids to have exposure to it even if it's not in their lives, so that when they do come across it, they're not weirded out by it. The same applies to people with disabilities and people of other cultures.

My mum never talked to me about it, and I turned out fine. (My new MO is borrowing this saying from smacking culture and applying it to everything)

[sasha]

S will be 3 in March and he seems to be OK with different kinds of families, with just a mum or just a dad, so I don't see him having a problem with accepting that there might be two mums/dads in a family. Right now he is a bit obsessed with "his family" (says stuff like "I want my family" as well as "I want my mummy, daddy, etc") so I can see that we will be discussing it at some point soon. He asked about our neighbour's "daddy" the other day (ie husband) and she's a widow, so he's definitely noticing relationships.

At this stage, we're just ensuring that we're open with their sexuality rather than talking about other people's... whenever there's a comment about having a boyfriend or girlfriend, I make sure they know that having either is fine.

[Indadhanu]

My mum never talked to me about it, and I turned out fine.

Things are a bit different now though, with same-sex parenting being MUCH more common, and same-sex couples using assisted technology a lot more common. As I said, most states now allow both mums on the birth certificate, which obviously says a lot about it becoming more common.
So it's all good and well for you to say you turned out fine but how many children did you know growing up who had two mums? I know I didn't, and didn't even know it was possible or allowed. Maybe BECAUSE no one talked about it as normality, so I didn't think it was. and hey, when we were growing up it probably wasn't 'normality' but now it is so why not include that as 'diversity education' to your kids?

I can only see it being a positive thing, but if anyone has any negatives they've thought of I'd love to hear them...?

[Fleur]

My mum never talked to me about it, and I turned out fine.

funny this thread should be bumped now, I was thinking about it today.
DD1 has a couple of friends who are gay, or experimenting - her BF had a girlfriend last year (but I don't think she is gay, or maybe she's still unsure) - anyway I was thinking about how matter of fact DD is about it, it is so not a big deal.

BUT I think the issue in schools really is when they are younger - that is when the teasing etc is likely to happen

Our kids certainly might turn out fine, when they are older & more mature, and have learnt a bit about life (hey, nobody talked to me about it either )
but that doesn't mean that there is no benefit in talking to them early on, quite the opposite IMHO.

it's really good for kids to have exposure to it even if it's not in their lives, so that when they do come across it, they're not weirded out by it. The same applies to people with disabilities and people of other cultures.

exactly that

[Persephone1]

Yeah, thanks for the bump - I missed it first time around.

I don't have kids yet, but the discussion will be a pretty regular thing in our household, as I have Two Mums myself (you jealous? you should be!) and obviously my child will have several Nannas...four in fact, given that there's my Mum, her partner, my MIL and my Dad's second wife.

My two nephews have grown up knowing that Nanna S and Nanna B live together and love each other. They don't really question it, although I think they have occasionally noticed the proliferation of Nannas in their lives. I expect that we won't really even need to have discussions as such, as a same-sex relationship is in our immediate family and will be something my kids are exposed to on a day-to-day basis.

I think we're also lucky that in our local area, same-sex relationships are really common, having two mums or two dads will be common at our kids school. We'll be talking to them as any questions are raised, just like we would deal with questions about other people's religions, race, disabilities, etc etc. I expect that question "Mum, why don't we go to Church?" to be more difficult to answer than the "Why do I have four Nannas?"

Oh, and hopefully by the time the question is raised, I will be able to tell my children that they can marry any boy or girl that they want to...because right now it's actually not legal, in Victoria and most of Australia at least.

[suse]

ETA: ...but at least mention it as many just don't even acknowledge that sane-sex parented families exist, and thats disappointing and frustrating for me.

Leash, this would have to one of the most apt typos, ever. (Sorry for the interruption, Channel Stupid will now return to your normal program).

E is still at at age where gender specifics mean nothing to him, but we are good friends with a two mum couple with a daughter the same age as E, so it will be something that is a normal part of his world. Actually, given the demographic of our immediate local community, he will probably be more exposed to sexual diversity than racial diversity, given that our local community is mostly either Anglo Saxon or indigenous he will have less of a sense of diversity as of duopoly.

Oh and Leash, something you said a few posts back really struck me. If I was in a same sex relationship, I'd be really disturbed by any friends that asked us not to act like a couple in front of the kids - what does that say for their opinion of the validity of your relationship if they don't feel comfortable explaining it to their kids?

[Indadhanu]

suse

[Trillian]

We haven't had to discuss it because it's never come up as an issue as such, and if they see something on TV they will say "they have two mums/dads' but to start with it was 'can you have two mums/dads?' and I just said 'of course you can' and moved on. We never made a big deal out of it so they haven't. Admittedly where we live they will probably never share a class with a child who has same sex parents living together, but there are a few who have separated due to sexuality and are living singly etc. We just reach them that a family can be anything - I come from a blended family and have a half brother, so they know that is a type of family, and they know that some kids live with grandparents, or extended family etc and so long as everyone loves each other then you can be a family. People should give kids more credit because kids aren't born programmed to discriminate, they just see it as it is and they are fine with it. Descrimination is taught to them.

[Fleur]

Leasha!!! I love your new avvy it's GORGEOUS!!

[Cassius2]

DD ATM doesnt see any difference between our friends that are same sex to us. but she is only just going 2. i guess because we have quite a few family members that are gay or bi 'telling' the kids in the family hasnt really been a sit down kinda thing...more of a 'in your stride' kinda thing. but it must be a different consideration when it is facing the parents, and sadly, like you said there will be a large part of Jazz's life where she will be the one enlightening her peers at school. but she is strong, she is beautiful and most importantly she has two loving, strong mummas in her life to gently guide her, protect her and raise her to be a complete and fulfilled woman.

As an aside, i also find i am very careful in using 'assumption' in my general language. so will never assume that it is a 'mummy/daddy' combo. because there are so many different scenarios in between, from single parents to same sex parents to 'nuclear' households. but again, maybe this is course of habit considering our family situation? dont know?