Avoiding gender and sexuality 'norms'

[Epacris]

Yes, I agree again. Ren, I wrote my post and was just about to post it, but you've beaten me to it. You've pretty much just said exactly what I was going to say (and actually, you've said it much better than how I've said it) . But here's my post anyway.... (seeing as it's already written)...

Yes! BOYS and GIRLS are different and their differences should be celebrated! BUT they should be given the space to discover their personalities in their own time without undue pressure to conform to gender norms. I think the key here is the "undue pressure" bit. Personally, I think it is getting more and more difficult for little kids to resist this pressure because BOY/GIRL things (clothes, toys) and attitudes of others seem to be so ever more pervading. Or maybe not, maybe it has always been like this??? I dunno? I just really, really hope that my little boy always feels free to be who he wants to be, and that he never resists doing something he really wants to do because it's "girly" and not acceptable for a boy. Likewise for a daughter if I have one.

[Sammiejane]

When DSS was about 3-7, he loved soft toys, kissed everything, picked flowers and was very gentle, he loved helping and cooking and very often would pretend cook... we neither encouraged or discouraged this behavior... he wanted to wear jewelry at one stage (bracelets) so he had a friendship band (remember those ) didnt want to wear girls clother or play with dolls though (his choice)

Now at 10 he is a boy through and through, a friend asked him to draw a picture (she is an artist) of something nice, instead of a ben10 alien that he always draws, he said 'like what' so she asked for a flower... he drew a really nice flower, but then added a bee hive and a swarm of bees that were attacking someone that was going to pick the flower!!!
he remains gentle and loving, but will also rough and tumble and loves building with his Dad and would never think of doing anything that could be deemed 'girly'... but still loves cooking - but then so does his Dad.

We wondered though, if his early behaviour was a result of spending more time with his Mum than his Dad and not having that male influence all the time, but he was in family day care with other kids that came from 'nuclear' familes and she had a few live in partners at times so probably not.

Also he has grown up aware of same sex relationships as DH uncle is in one... we never really sat down and explained it, he just knew that "harry" lived with "steve" (not real names JIC) just as i lived with his Dad... he grew up accepting this and has never really questioned it.

[Trillian]

*meh* kids will be what they want to be and its not up to us to either stiffle or encourage certain behaviours (well obviously there would be exceptions to this if they are being overly physical/rought etc). Don't force them to do something they don't enjoy - let them try it so they gain the experience but don't flog a dead horse if they don't like it. By curbing certain behaviours we are only passing our own predetermined ideas onto them and not letting them form their own.

I suppose I have the benefit of having both genders, so there is a mix of play items in our house. From what I have observed over the years at playgroup and then preschool, children aren't defined by the toys they play with. We have friends that have 5 boys and every single one of them would go beserk over a doll or a toy pram if they saw one simply because it wasn't something they saw and got to play with everyday kwim? Same applies for girls and 'boys toys'. Granted they do play with them differently (my eldest DS plays with the girls' pram like it was a formula one racing car and the girls will play 'house' with action figures and dinosaurs) and the way they play with them comes back to their gender and their personality, but kids love toys and if you put them in a room full of toys they will look at and play with all of them, but how they play with them is essentially defined by personality I think.

But toys aside, it is hard in the wider community to stay consistent with what ideally we would like to instill in our children - whether it be gender neutral clothes/play or gender specific. Although retailers and manufacturers are starting to change their 'traditions' as well - pink shirts for boys etc, polly pocket matchbox cars for girls (which my girls adore LOL), beado's being marketed to both genders etc, so it is becomming easier without our children becomming stigmatised.

[sunshine_sieben]

Hi,
I understand what you mean, Ren. I have a DD and although she does wear girly things, I am glad when she is a little tomboy-ish. She does love dolls. But she also loves cars and soccer balls. She kicks them thrugh the house. When it comes to climbing, she's as tough as they come, keeping up with boys muhc older than her. And she's only 13 months old. I love that.
I also love that she can be tender and loving.
In my opinion, at this age there aren't all that many differences between boys and girls yet. But when she grows up, I think I will see more of it. There are also lots of differences between girls and girls or boys and boys.
I want her to be her, I don't want her to feel like she has to conform to what others think about her.

My personal pet peeve is something else: body image and food (especially because she is a girl). I have myself suffered from eating disorders for almost a decade, and I am hellbent on breaking the cycle (she denies it, but my mum has issues with body image herself and I don't call what she does a "healthy relationship with food). So it really gets to me when people make stupid comments about little kids. DD is actually on the skinny side (90th percentile in height, but 70th percentile in weight I think). But when she recently had a bit of a growth spurt, my FIL said to her: "Gee, you're getting fat" WTF? I lamost blew my top! Funny thing is, he's very overweight.

Actually, I think there is a thread in this :-) Might have to start one of my own rather than hijacking yours.

Unfortunately you can't control what everybody around you does and your children are going to be exposed to these things. All you can do is to foster their independence and self confidence so that they feel free to disregard outside pressures that they dislike. It sounds like you're doing a great job at this.

All the best, Saša

[sunshine_sieben]

Oh, and DD also often wears unisex clothes. I used to HATE pink and used to swear if I ever had a daughter that I wouldn't dress her in pink. But unfortunately it really suits her ;-) Pale skin, blue eyes, blonde hair... So I have made my peace with this colour and she has a few pink things now.

She also often wears blue (and all other colours) and people often refer to her as a little boy. But then again, she can be wearing pink pants and some people still say "he". It doesn't bother me, though.

And DD regularly pashes another girl. I just think it's cute and if anyone would dare to make a comment that implied that anything sexual was going on there, I would bite their head off!

Saša

[mrsmac]

After having 2 girls I had a boy and it has constantly made me laugh how "boyishly" he plays with their things. When he was about 11 months he grabbed DD2 dolls parm and immerdiately turned it over to see how the wheels worked. He is just one of those boys that likes taking things apart and building things or playing with things with wheels. When he was smaller the main toys he had access to were his sisters and he still played with them in a completely different way to her. Now he is drawn towards cars and trucks and Thomas stuff. We have never pushed him into gender specific toys its just what he has chosen.
I really think a lot of it is ingrained in their personality regardless of how we treat them.

[Lulu]

Aw Ren- don't worry. Those sorts of comments are more 'fluff talk" than serious. You know like " so when are you having another one?" whilst you are still in the maternity ward.

Have a look around yourself. Look at all the types of roles your son will be exposed to while he is so young. He will see mummies that work, mummies that stay at home, daddies that change nappies, partners with differing skin colours, women in politics and heads of corporations, and men that hold hands like his mum and dad.
If and when he sees this stuff it becomes the norm, not unusual. Imagine if right now was the 1950's???? Strict gender roles and sexuality rules, no choice at all.

I heartily agree with recognizing and celebrating the differences with gender - kids have more interesting things to do than care about the colour tshirt they are wearing!

[Sammiejane]

And DD regularly pashes another girl. I just think it's cute and if anyone would dare to make a comment that implied that anything sexual was going on there, I would bite their head off!

Sa?a

on that point...
growing up we use to play boyfriend/girlfriend games, there was no male playing the boy, it was a girl, so as a young kid i frequently pashed girls, it had no baring on my sexuality, it was just a game and i persoanaly think there was nothing wrong with it

[leebee81]

The one that annoys me is the fact that its just assumed that all boys like cars/trucks/planes and camo (meh, I hate camo). Can we get some variety in boys clothing please? On the up side, boys do seem to get a variety of colours unlike the wall-to-wall pink for girls.