Reply With QuoteI think maybe you've got it there Rouge!
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I think I must be the only person who didn't think she was having a go at mums and dads entirely. I actually read it as having a go at society that breeds the notion that you put a baby down and they go to sleep. That because of people like TH people think that there are baby whisperers out there that can turn babies into machines that eat and sleep on your demand. Whereas the reality is I see Pinky as the mummy and daddy whisperer who helps you to see that what bubs is going through is normal. And instead of teaching your baby to listen to you, for you to listen to your baby. This does not mean when you aren't coping that she doesn't give a crap. But you need the basics for when you are.
No one piece of advice is going to be perfect for everyone. But I do think if people were able to accept that babies don't need to be trained it would make the tough times easier. I for one thought babies needed to be trained with my first. I had severe PND and didn't cope very well because every time bubs didn't respond the way I thought they should I had failed. DS was a lot more difficult with sleep etc yet I coped fine even with a smaller child because I didn't feel like a failure. I listened to my baby and held zero expectations of what was meant to be. The other thing is we as a society do not need to be so literal when it comes to raising children. Like with any advice take what speaks to you. Babies aren't broken. They don't need to be fixed. If anything we do for thinking as such.
ETA: Edited to fix iTypos
Last edited by Rouge; June 4th, 2013 at 11:15 PM.
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I think maybe you've got it there Rouge!
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I read it the same as Rouge.
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Yep, we would be sacked if we did that.
2014 BellyBelly RAK Recipient.
Sorry I said that how I felt, probably wasn't meant the way I took it. But I for upset reading about how your anxiety whilst pg affects your child's brain. And leaving them to cry also affects their brain. Now I never did CIO etc, I did the respond to baby thing even through pnd. Doesn't mean I don't feel guilty and stress that the few times I had to leave him, so I didn't explode, haven't effected him for the rest of his life.
But this is untrue, you have to allow parents leniences to make mistakes. We are only human. And just because we don't get it perfect doesn't mean we don't love our children or tend to their needs. Or that we aren't putting our children first.
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I really don't think she is referring to people who have to leave the baby safely in the cot for 5 minutes while they take a breather and count to 10. IMO and I feel who Pinky is talking about are those who do CIO right away. I know someone who did CIO on an 8 DAY old baby because society had conditioned her to think the poor little thing was supposed to sleep 12 hours straight. She said it took 2 weeks of screaming for hours on end but now he sleeps 8pm-8am. 8 days old. WTF.
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For my first I thought I needed to CIO at 4 days old. Because that's what I had been taught. From the day she was born I struggled with the notion that babies don't sleep. I wouldn't even cuddle her to sleep in a chair for fear it would become a pattern. My heart breaks for the beautiful moments I lost in those early first weeks because I thought I wasn't being a good mother otherwise. Luckily I had support. Luckily I was able to reprogram my brain. But honestly the damage had already been done to me. Not to my daughter. She coped fine. But for me I still pine for those moments. Funnily enough I was CC'd as a baby. DH was not and he was the one who figured out quickly how to get her to sleep listening to his heartbeat, how to coax her gently to sleep with strokes and love. And that then made me feel worse I questioned my abilities. Thinking I had failed her with a csection and again by taking on bad advice with breast feeding that lead to bottle feeding. And guess what I had done my research. I had read books. I was already a moderator on another forum. It wasn't until I found Bellybelly and Kelly that I realised there were other options. I was also lucky that I made friends who also took the gentle approach. It was enlightening. Back when BB started we were not the norm. It was considered "Alternative Parenting". And recently when the big girl had her baby I watched her go through all the same fears of failure I had. And yet she grew up in a gentle parenting household. Society I do believe has a lot to answer for. And also how we talk to each other. I remember my gf, who used to post here calling me in years because everyone in her buddy group had the perfect baby and she didn't. I told her to post about how she felt and that I was sure others were struggling too, but too scared to say anything in case they looked like they were failing. Sure enough she opened the flood gates and not one person wasn't experiencing what she was. How many times have you been asked "Are they a good baby?" What the heck does that even mean???? And how crap does it make you feel?
And let me tell you confidence in yourself allows you to not feel guilty. To recognise that you need a break. To put bub in the cot safely and have a 10 minute breather. Just because you don't blame yourself or your baby doesn't mean you aren't human. It's exhausting. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture. And I don't know any mother who has not hated it at one moment or another. Who has not just thought "GO TO SLEEP DAMNIT!" That's Ok! It doesn't make you a bad mother. And neither does PND. We all love our babies, and I didn't live my DD less because I didn't know how to parent differently. But I think I loved myself more when I changed because the guilt and anguish was no longer there.
I do not judge parents. Not ever. I get just as frustrated with society as Pinky does. That doesn't mean I don't offer support or reach out to those that need support. Wanting to change societies view of how to care for a baby is not a judgement. It's a movement. And that's what I see her as trying to achieve.
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I think if her aim was to challenge society's view she phrased it incorrectly. She called parents lazy, dip****s and any number of other insults - how is that about society and not the individual? I just cant see it. It seems so counterproductive.
I still maintain the better way to get through to people is to position yourself alongside them aimed at a common goal; 'dont let society sell you this lie, Im angry for you that youve been misled, angry for your babies'.
If the misconceptions of society are the problem we need to be frustrated for parents, not at them.
And Im coming from the position of essentially getting it all "right" gentle parenting wise (so no guilt, her post isnt aimed at me in the slightest). I just know it isnt because Im less lazy or dip****ty, I just happened to stumble on the support to be comfortable in gentle parenting choices early in the gig. I had the right information and community, not the right attributes as a person.
Basically the whole debate the topic not the person thing and as soon as personal insults come into it then youve kind of lost by default. I think this message (her message) is too important to let it be discounted by resorting to cheap personal shots, we need to be the bigger people to not let it imo. That is why this post disappointed me, it just gives people an easy out to stop listening.
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Did she end up being on Today Tonight??
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It airs tonight apparently.
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Just watched it, not really sure it contributed anything at all. Man I am sick of the word "entitled" and the phrase "having it all".
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I thought it was a load of bollocks to be honest. It didn't actually look at anything just brushed the surface or something the reporter obviously had no clue about. Pinky was doing what so many others do and generalize all parents, she lost a lot of respect from me. I am a good mum and I know and understand my child, just because I am a mum now doesn't make me worse than those gone by. There were plenty of parents that let their kids scream in decades gone by.
The segment was a completely worthless piece of fluff IMHO
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No need to hide I agree. I have never watched TT before but it certainly didn't make me think I have been missing out.
The segment was a completely worthless piece of fluff IMHO
2014 BellyBelly RAK Recipient.
It could have been an interesting segment... Oh wait... It might have needed to be on 4 corners or at least 60minutes to actually have a good look at the topic.
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Yep, totally agree. I would say she was happy with how it went though - wonder how much control she had over that? Didn't address any of the issues raised by her initial post at all.I thought it was a load of bollocks to be honest. It didn't actually look at anything just brushed the surface or something the reporter obviously had no clue about. Pinky was doing what so many others do and generalize all parents, she lost a lot of respect from me. I am a good mum and I know and understand my child, just because I am a mum now doesn't make me worse than those gone by. There were plenty of parents that let their kids scream in decades gone by.
The segment was a completely worthless piece of fluff IMHO
♥ BellyBelly's Creator ♥
Here it is if you want to see it: Sleep deprived parents are 'lazy' - Today Tonight
Kelly xx
Creator of BellyBelly.com.au, doula, writer and mother of three amazing children
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Typical Today Tonight 'coverage'chop chop chop, back and forth between snippets of this and that and in the end, not really saying much at all! Also missing the point and not showing CC for what it is IMO. Fussing sounds are not the same as helpless screaming, which often is what is done while CC.
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Pinky's blogs today
After listening to someone talk about how 'manipulative' their 10 month old is and how by now they 'must learn!'... And how their 'controlled' crying method 'only' left their child screaming for an hour..
I very nearly had my own pinky moment today but managed to keep the crazy in my pants. What on earth do you say to that? I feel completely at a loss in the face of such absolute nonsense. I simply don't have anything nice to say.
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