Free birthing

[Tegam]

sorry dont understand new forum setup and just wanted to be able to find this later. Interesting topic and i have something to offer but not when then kids are here 'helping' me!

[Smoke Jaguar]

Agreed, I'm not a friend of Janet's and won't be visiting her forum again, but I wish people would stop attaching neonate mortality with her name. It must be distressing for those who DO know her (and there are members on BB who do) to see this done. She's a real person, someone who has birthed, like you and me and I wouldn't want to be the flagbearer for an outcome that actually happens FAR more frequently in hospital settings because of the lack of continuity of care and the lack of awareness of complication indicators that experienced midwives know about and pick up on early because they see women labouring. IM's don't tend to tell women they'll be there and interested when they are nearly fully dilated. Hospital staff in maternity wards aren't that well-versed with normal birth as it occurs from beginning to end - they catch the end bit, that's why I ONLY wanted to present to our local FBC once I had laboured entirely at home, because hospy and FBC policy is determined by what THEY think is enough labouring time before intervention cuts in
Sorry, that is a bit long-winded, and the crux of it is that undisturbed birth has, by far, much better outcomes, even where there are complications (Marjorie Tew's book has great examples of this occurring in the UK over the last century and a bit, esp rural areas where GP's used to do these deliveries without specialist intervention...they were afforded the experience adn actually LISTENED to birthing women. They had to, they paid their wages, not hospital management teams!).
You see, birth is very political in our society. Birth is not birth is not birth. Peel away at the layers and you find a history of misogyny, privilege and subjugation of women with careers and experience with childbirth.
A read of this book can give you confidence in birthing outside of hospital settings

[alioops]

Fruit Tingles, From what I understand of your posts you are saying that you are booked in to a hospital? Most hospitals tell you to labour at home for as long as you feel comfortable. If you feel things are moving faster than you would like, call an ambulance and follow their instructions. But don't force yourself to stay home when you are no longer comfortable.

[Little Chicken]

I think we have to distinguish between an unintentional home birth and a planned freebirth. They are 2 different things and one can happen to anybody if we labour faster or differently then we think we will. i was led to believe that a true freebirth had no medical care whatsoever, including antenatal care, and the woman and her partner take absolute responsibility for the preganacy and birth. But that is just recall from conversations and not any major research done on my part.

I have worked in a major maternity hospital for the past 9 years and can recall very few instances where a term birth has gone so catastrophically wrong where the baby has died or suffered major disability because of lack of care during labour. Most problems I have seen occur due to complications or emergencies occuring during delivery. I have also seen the outcomes of homebirths with complications as well. In fact about the same number. Unfortunately hospitals HAVE to have these pathways and timelines due to liability and insurance. If they don't have them they can't be accredited, and if you don't follow them the hospital will basically wash its hands of you in the case of a lawsuit or coroners case. Also the UK used to have a system of flying squads where a specialist team could rush out to the aid of a GP or community midwife experiencing trouble at a birth. Such a shame they got rid of these as it would enable many more women to birth safely at home.

[Oorki Galoorki]

No matter where a baby is born a mother alwasy feels responible if that baby does not survive!
using threatening language "can you handle your baby dying" is disgusting! this is what women face every day in hospitals, this is why there are so many who fear birth and that are forced in to unwanted intervention or unwanted c/s!
If you dont support it fine dont but do not pull the dead baby card on any one!

fruit tingles i hope where ever you have your baby you enjoy it and its the birth you want!
check out my sig for what i have to say on it!

[Smoke Jaguar]

I agree with you, Muminalice - hospitals DO need to have these, because without some kind of framework things would get unmanageable for staff. Knowing that the parameters of hospital policy are so firm puts me off hospital birth, and lots of women like the idea of it, for various reasons. I agree that complications occur during delivery. What I really believe from many conversations with midwives and birth practitioners, is that those complications present symptoms during labour that IM's tend to pick up on a lot more readily and ahead of time than most hospy midwives, because IM's see a lot more of normal labour and abnormal labour in the earlier phases than hospy ones. Just by virtue of location and not being bound by hospital policy of labouring duration. Most IM's won't wait until the point of delivery to do a transfer in the case of complications. Transfers occur much earlier in the piece than the point of disaster.
Yes, support services ARE better in the UK. This country is a disgrace for birth support services - perinatal support in general.

[Fruit Tingles]

Fruit Tingles, From what I understand of your posts you are saying that you are booked in to a hospital? Most hospitals tell you to labour at home for as long as you feel comfortable. If you feel things are moving faster than you would like, call an ambulance and follow their instructions. But don't force yourself to stay home when you are no longer comfortable.

Yes, I am booked into a hospital and plan on labouring at home for as long as I am comfortable before going to hospital. I would definately either call an ambulance or go to hospital if I felt I was not able to cope with the speed at what labour is progressing or the pain.

I just wanted to know what I would need to know should the situation of a unassisted birth were to occur and if I would need to call an ambulance and if I would then have to stay in hospital after the birth or if I would be discharged after being checked over or would that be up to me etc.

[Lolli]

Hi Fruit tingles,
I had an unplanned free birth- there's a link in my siggy if you want to read my birth story. I did call an ambulance and was transferred to the hospital, but released about 5 hours later at my own request. I had no problems with paperwork but I did get a call from Births Deaths and Marriages, who in turn contacted my midwife (a public mw, but through a caseload program, so different to your situation) to confirm the baby was a live birth. I was admitted straight to the maternity ward, bypassing emergency (although the ambos did warn i may go there, depending on hospital protocol). I had the choice of whether we wanted the cord cut or not by the ambos, but they discouraged me from delivering the placenta until we reached the hospital.

I hope that's useful info for you There is a lot of good info on 'emergency birthing' if you have a Google

[Little Chicken]

Fruit Tingles does the hospital have an early discharge plan? No-one can force you to stay in hospital if you don't want to. No-body can force you to do anything you don't want to. The only time it gets complicated is if they think something is wrong with the baby then a whole different set of rules apply. I have seen women who have delivered in the hallway of the hospital be discharged less then 12 hours later and the same for those who have arrived having already delivered. They may want you to stay for a few hours just to watch for bleeding but again, it is entirely up to you.

[Kazbah]

Yes, I am booked into a hospital and plan on labouring at home for as long as I am comfortable before going to hospital. I would definately either call an ambulance or go to hospital if I felt I was not able to cope with the speed at what labour is progressing or the pain.

I just wanted to know what I would need to know should the situation of a unassisted birth were to occur and if I would need to call an ambulance and if I would then have to stay in hospital after the birth or if I would be discharged after being checked over or would that be up to me etc.

From looking at the other posts, it may make things easier if you do go to hospital / call an ambulance to register the birth etc. Plus getting the all-clear from doctors etc may take some of the heat off you from well-meaning family & friends who don't have the same rust in your body that you and your DP do.

No matter what you decide, it's so important to be well-educated about your choice, and well-done to you for demonstrating this.

[Mildez]

Meow I did not say my friend didn't have complications. She had a massive PPH of over 2000mls and ended up in ICU for 3days after her unintentional home birth. Her baby was fine. She woke up at 3am needing to poo, stood up and literally out flew her son by 301am. The placenta tore before the ambulance arrived hence why she has such a big bleed. I did not mention that part as I know of many stories where free birthing has been completely natural and have the expected outcome. I could write a novel of all the stories I know of free birthing both good and bad. Some I am sure you would all be very interested in hearing.

Like you Muminalice I also have worked in a large maternity hospital for a number of years as a midwife however I can not recall any instances where a term birth has gone so catastrophically wrong where the baby has died or suffered major disability because of lack of care during labour or from intervention. Certainly birth trauma and unneccessary intervention but no cases where it has meant the death or longterm health problems of the baby. Long term mental health for mum yes, birth rape and genital mutilation yes but not SB's or extremely poor neonatal outcomes that could be prevented. Obviously I have seen many, some unknown, some known but couldn't be prevented etc but none caused by birthing in hospitals. Yes I have heard of them occurring at other places but none where I work where the outcome would have been different if bub was born at home.

Be back later to reply to some of the repies to my previous posts.

[Little Chicken]

Mildez I was more talking about shoulder dystocia, cord prolapse, massive APH that kind of thing...unexpected complications that can happen anywhere. The one I saw in hospital was caused by the refusal of a c-section so the outcome would have been the same reagrdless, the other at home was the lack of diagnosis of pre-eclampsia and subsequently eclampsia, again caused by refusal to be tested so again I doubt thr outcome would have been different.

[Nelle]

Hiya FT,

I think that to labour at home as long as you can is a great idea. If you do accidentally (or deliberately) give birth at home there are things to consider though. What will you do if your new baby needs assistance or resuscitation? Are you trained in that or will someone who is trained be there? What about yourself? Can you identify something like a haemorrhage and make the call about calling an ambulance? Have you someone to clean up? Can you identify a tear and make the call on if you want to leave it to heal naturally or get it seen to? How will your partner manage being the main support person for a labouring wife, then a recovering wife and a new baby?

I'm not actively trying to scare you away from anything. I do think these are realistic questions that you would do well to answer so you can decide the risks versus benefits fairly.

(On another note, with moving - as you get closer to the time of moving, will it become apparent where you're moving to? And when it does maybe you can really proactively seek out a doula/IM in the area?)

All the best. xo

[studentmum]

Wow, a lot of this thread is muddled up with repliers arguging with each other - this is NOT helpful for people who actually are interested in the answers to Fruit Tingles questions. I think some members need to chill out, apparent from her posts Fruit Tingles is a big girl capable of taking care of herself and doesn't need others "sticking up for her" - I know this is a bit of a rant but believe me, if you read through this thread you would be annoyed having to read petty arguing posts in between the 'answering the question' posts.

So what I actually wanted to say was, I am in a very similar situation to you FT, I am 500km from a major city and 100km from a major hospital. I have had 2 cs and a vba2c, I cannot fathom driving 100km in labour, also possibly with 3 kids at any time of day or night. I want this one's big sisters and brother to be there when he/she arrives, not an hour away. So far a mw for a hb is not an option and I so wanted that, now I am considering my lay birth assistant options, no go so far.

I have let dh know I am not happy, he thinks a 1 hr drive will be fine (he forgets all the cursing from the last drive, which was still a 40 min peak hr traffic drive in the city WITH a doula holding my hips all the way there! And NO kids) I do know a lady who had an unplanned hb and dh was the one who kept it all okay. I just don't think I could get my head around dh being the one 'in charge'???

Given the long drive option we have a baby kit, bulb suction, clamps, sharp scissors and fresh linen etc, also some large garbage bags and a comfy blanket to line the back of the 4wd where I will be on hands and knees if this damn drive is the only option left.

The just in case kit and car protection are the only items we have so far, in terms of baby knowledge dh knows noiught and I am a nurse although I will need to brush up on the new baby side of things.

I would recommend watching births where interventions were needed for sticky shoulders, cords around neck etc. You can't get dh to be a mw overnight but being aware and mentally prepared would have to be better than nothing right?

I can't think of anything else we've talked about yet, I still have ages to go, I do hope things go smoothly for you and I look forward to reading your birth story!

Good luck
Sarah

[Tegam]

hI Studnet mum! we are almost due at the same time. I am in the same place as you! DH delivered my last bub on his own as i only had a 10min labour, we had planned a HB with MW! LOL so it doesnt really matter that there is a hospital only 20minsw away for me! It was full on being on our own but we cant decide this tiime if we really only just want to be on our own this time! it is tiotally different for you as you are so far away and no MW. The vbac thing could freak others out to! I hope you get the birth you want! Great that you have along time to plan and think things thru. I think thats why DH and i delt with things so well last time as we had thought from day one we would probably be on our own. I look forward to talking to you more in the next few months! pity we arent in the same belly buddies! Maybe baby buddies

[AwesomeFoursome]

FT; I think staying at home for as long as possible is a great idea. With DS I was induced and had a very traumatic birth. With DD I stayed home as long as I felt I could handle it, when I got to hospital I was almost 8cms. DD was born 90 minutes after we arrived at the hospital. DS was with us for the birth. The hospital had a early discharge program so we went home 6 hours after DD was born. It all just went perfectly. I plan to stay home as long as possible with this one has well. My midwife has told me to call her if things happen too quickly to make it to the hospital. I don't know what she would but.

[dialectica]

Hi,

I'm new here and was just browsing around the forums, when I came across this thread. I had a homebirth with my first daughter (now 4) and freebirthed my son (now 1). The freebirth was the most amazing experience of my life. Freebirth is not for everyone, and those who feel safer in hospital or assisted by a midwife should not do it, obviously. But there are many reasons to freebirth. OP, I think Emergency Childbirth is a great read if you are considering freebirthing, as is Laura Shanley's book. Educating yourself about what is normal in birth, and how to deal with any possible complications, is useful for everyone, even if you don't end up freebirthing. There are many resources to help you prepare for a freebirth, both in terms of information and birth supplies, both online and offline.

Olivia

[studentmum]

Hi Tegam - I do hope my next labour isn't 10 mins - I just don't thinki dh could handle that!!

I am still annoyed at the lack of options in my little town, it is very frustrating and I am still not happy with the idea of fb. But I feel I have no choice.

Honestly to all still reading this thread, here's the situation...

You desperately want a hb (It's my 4th and probably last bub) you have tried to get an IM or local MW or birth assistant and it's not happening. You don't have $10k to rent in the city and get your IM and you really, really don't want to drive 100km's in labour esp. given that if you go too early you will be harrassed to have a cs (just like with your last 2 births) and if you go too late you could end up having to birth in the red dirt on the side of a road that has 54m road trains hurtling along it.

What would you choose to do??????????????

Ta
Sarah