Homebirth General Discussion #1

[Schmickers]

The public hospital I am attending supports and encourages both active and water birth - isn't that a bit of an anomaly within the public system? [...] and if not for the strong BHs I've been getting would have literally skipped out of the hospital after meeting with the waterbirth consultant midwife!

Good god, what hospital is that? It sounds marvellously enlightened...

[Chalalan]

Trish! you make me laugh! Good on your mum for looking after you so well!

Giving birth at mums house would be really comfortable, she has a big indoor bathtub / jacuzi thingy for the water part and lots of sheets...but since her house is also a B&B, the other guests might not like me hogging the bathroom and squealing in the next room!

The other lady from WA, sorry, I've forgotten who you are ...How did you go checking out the HB scheme in WA? I'd be really keen to hear what you found out. Would you mind posting a bit of an update here? Thanks - Think of it as the 'push' you needed to look into it!

Smickers...maybe a male version of a 'doula' is a 'doulo' ??And you've raised an interesting point about having a big hairy man as a birth attendant..I'm not sure which way I'd go- it would really depend on if we clicked or not rather than your gender for me, but it does seem a bit odd to begin with...Is it something you would like to get into?

[Trish]

I guess the idea of having a male doula is pretty much the same as having a male midwife now isn't it. And although there aren't alot out there I'm sure of the few that are they would be great.

Micheal, I can see a side job for you with Victoria happening hun

Jen, OH your mum's house sounds perfect for birthing. Umm, charge the other guests a viewing fee and you might be onto something there I remember mum's neighbours wanted us to leave the curtains open so they could watch !!

[Chalalan]

Eeeow to your sicko neighbours Trish! I hope you shut the curtains tightly and looked the front door!

but then on the other hand.....there are people out there that would be willing to pay to watch a birth...maybe I could auction it off on EBay as an accomodation and 'entertainment' package!

Sorry, off topic and very silly!! bad Trish & BL!!

[suse]

"Good god, what hospital is that? It sounds marvellously enlightened..." Cairns Base Hospital Michael.

I know, it does sound too good to be true! I'm waiting for the bubble to burst and to end up with my feet in stirrups, an enema jammed up my bum and some smarmy ob to peer over his glasses at me and say, now come along dear, we must get you moving along, you don't want me to miss my golf game at 5:00 now, do you... I was a bit worried when we first moved up here as they actually have a higher than average c/s rate - but they are an area base hossy and get all of the regional emergencies which tends to skew the stats a bit.

Babylove - a doulo - now that's brilliant!! And if you do convince your mum to turn her house into a Birth and Breakfast, sign me up please. It sounds wonderful!

[Schmickers]

Smickers...maybe a male version of a 'doula' is a 'doulo' ??And you've raised an interesting point about having a big hairy man as a birth attendant..I'm not sure which way I'd go- it would really depend on if we clicked or not rather than your gender for me, but it does seem a bit odd to begin with...Is it something you would like to get into?

Well, I kind of practice midwifery vicariously through my wife, who is a midwife who does some independent midwifery and childbirth education. Hence I'm fairly clued up on the subject area, as I assist with a lot of the research and documentation for her independent practice. I'm a children's nurse currently. But yes, I have frequently considered studying to get my midwifery qualifications, and as times wears on, my reservations about doing so steadily recede. My only real objections now are financial (I'd probably have to drop back to part time, and take a significant drop in pay, to start again as a student midwife) and my location (I'd have to do my practical work at our local hospital, and it and my wife have had certain...disagreements...in the past. And additionally, it would probably necessitate her ceasing work, as they would not be able to roster us on at the same time).

And I like doulo...I may add it to my sig...

[Morgaine]

Cairns Base hospital in my opinion, does not practice what they preach. They are supposedly a Baby Friendly certified hospital, yet the women that I know who have gone there ( some were my clients ) ended up being separated from their babies for a period after birth for unjustifiable reasons.

Like most other hospitals, the experience a woman will have at CBH is dependent on who is rostered on at the time you go into labour. They do have birth pools, but women are only allowed to birth in them if the waterbirth 'specialist' is there at the time to my knowledge. If someone else is using the pools you aren't allowed to bring your own. I don't like how often some midwives will ask if women want pain relief constantly despite the women clearly stating they did not want to be offered and that they were aware of the option.

As for encouraging natural active birth, there are certain routine policies that CBH has that do not work in favour of active birth - like the 20 mins monitoring that they often insist women get on the bed for upon being admission. Again its really dependent on who is on staff at the time. I know some who swear they've had great middies and great births there (but none were first timers which is interesting).

If the woman is a VBAC, CBH is really crap about encouraging natural active birth because their routine protocols for managing VBAC women do nothing to improve or help their chances at VBAC. VBAC protocol doesn't support free active labour. It is pretty restricted and the women I know who have attempted it there have ended up with repeat C/s.

Personally I think the perinatal and maternal data for the hospital says it all, and that blaming it on the amount of "high risk" women who end up there is a cop out. The recommended rates of intervention by the World Health Organisation is based on high risk clientele as well and CBH is well over that margin.

It is a shame that there are no practising homebirth midwives servicing the Cairns area at the moment. The closest is in Mareeba and last I heard, they have stopped attending women in Cairns because of the distance. So basically birth choice is limited to the public or the private (and I'd rather the public), or the highway as one Cairns Post paper put it in Jan 2005 where a woman said she was going to have a home birth without a midwife anyway because the hospital was not an option for her.

[suse]

That's really interesting to hear Morgaine - and quite disturbing as well. Are you either a doula or midwife yourself (you mentioned clients so I am assuming that you are a birth professional of some description?). It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience with it so thank you for such detailed information! Although I will admit that you have me a bit worried now...!

I've heard that in any public hospital you are at the mercy of whoever happens to be rostered on at the time. I've noticed a difference between some of the midwives that I've seen for appointments, although the majority seem to be really supportive, there have been one or two that I fervently hope are not rostered on when I go into labour! It's a big argument for having a doula or private midwife to attend, but unfortunately it's not an option for me! After reading your post though I am wondering whether to try to scrape together the money for a doula - although at 39 weeks it might be a little late, even if there are any in the area! I am a pretty strong advocate for myself (and my partner knows exactly what I want), but probably won't be in any position to argue on the day if I need to.

In your opinion, do you think that there is any way that I can give myself a better chance for a natural birth (apart from having my fingers crossed that I have a good midwife on the day?).

[Julie Doula]

I think i'm having second thoughts here about a homebirth, im not sure. Maybe i'm just really scared of the unknown? And like someone else mentioned, i feel a bit selfish for spending all that money... i dunno maybe i jsut need some more reasurence?

Hey darl, the journey from fear to confidence is a special one deserving of honour.

NAPSAC (National Association of Parents & Professionals for Safe Alternatives in Childbirth) speaks of two things that help to overcome fear surrounding birth:

1. Faith - confidence, belief in yourself, that women can do it, that you can do it, that birth is safe as life gets and it is intervention/interference that is risky. Faith is the antidote to fear.

2. Knowledge

What things may build your faith?

What things will grow your knowledge?

Different things work for different people, you know how you best like to absorb and consolidate new information. It is an exciting journey of discovery you are on - but it is vital that your take responsibility for this journey and for becoming informed and being open to that paradigm shift in your awareness.

Ideas for Building faith and confidence:
- work with your body. Exercise, relaxation & breathing, walking, swimming, dance, The PinK Kit, pelvic mapping, perineal massage, understanding your hormones, optimal foetal positioning

Ideas for Growing knowledge:
- independent childbirth classes
- viewing birth videos of women's homebirths - check out Youtube.
- recommended reading
- hire a doula


Blessings for your journey! You may well blaze a trail for others.

[Morgaine]

In your opinion, do you think that there is any way that I can give myself a better chance for a natural birth (apart from having my fingers crossed that I have a good midwife on the day?).

Yes of course there are plenty of things you can do to improve your chances for having the natural birth that you want. One of the biggest factors seems to be how long women stay at home before rocking up to hospital. The longer you leave it, the less opportunities there are for them to push unwanted routine protocols on to you. Your labour also has a better chance of progressing normally if you're in your home environment and feel supported.

It also pays to decide now what things you might compromise on, and what things you are not willing to compromise on, knowing the risks. Then you can decide how far you're prepared to go to protect your birthing space. Ideally women should not have to compromise, it is THEIR birth, and they are the consumer here. Technically the caregiver works for them but unfortunately that is not where the balance of power sits in our society where birth is concerned.

And yes I am a doula. There is one other in Cairns doing qualifications through CBI same as me. You're most welcome to meet with me and chat if you would like to get things off your chest and see what you can do about addressing your concerns about birthing at CBH. You won't need to scrape together any money. You can e-mail me if you want to discuss this further, my address is cairnsdoulas@gmail.com

[Jakana]

I've come to the decision that a home birth would be the safest option for me and am very excited now that the decision is made!

I've hit a fairly big hurdle though. I can't find a midwife who can attend me. I will be living in Bacchus Marsh and if anyone has any info I would really appreciate it. Anyone practicing on the West side of Melbourne. This is my third baby and I want as little intervention during the pregnancy as well as birth so there really won't be much to do!

What are the laws regarding giving birth without a registered midwife? I know in England its illegal, is it the same here?

Do all of you who have home births register with your local hospital 'just in case'? I would be a little hesitant, wouldn't that be the same as stocking up on formula and bottles 'just in case'?

As I said is my first post there is so much to say (or should that be ask??)

[Chalalan]

Hi Julie Doula - quick question for you...

What is 'pelvic mapping' ?

I am 5' nothing and hubby is 6'3"...I wouldn't consider myself petite but am a bit worried about having a big baby and not being able to birth vaginally (and I really, really, really dont want a CS unless its absolutely necessary!) Is pelvic mapping something I should know about / look into?

Smickers, I wish finances didn't rule the bloody world! The midwifery community is missing out on a leader and advocate for women birthing how they want to birth. Heres to winning Lotto!

[Cricket]

Jakana - can't answer your questions about the legalities of home-birth attendants by you, but as far as registering at the hospital goes - it's just in case you run into trouble in labour, so that no one has to go and fill out forms, etc, right before or after the birth. (and, as my midwife pointed out - if people ask where you are having this baby, and you don't want to tell them you are birthing at home, or think they will freak out, you can tell them the name of that hospital! ) I don't think it's the same as having formula in the house, just in case, but an extra safety net, sort of. Doesn't mean you're any more likely to transfer, but if you have to, they'll be ready for you.

Baby-love - I've heard that babies are more likely to follow their own mother's size at birth. Don't know if that's true for everyone, but it has been for us. My DH is 6'4", 280lb, (all muscle ) and I'm not really so small myself - (5'7" and I have no clue what weight right now - 190?) and my babies have been 6lb14oz, 7lb10oz, and 7lb8oz. I don't think it happens that often that a mother is really too small to push her baby out. And a lot of bigger babies are chubby, which contributes to their weight. It's not like their head and shoulders are that much bigger than smaller babies', they just have chubbier tummies. I was pretty worried about a c-section, too, with my first, since my mother had to have them, but all was well. No tearing, even! Don't stress about that right now. I'm sure you'll be fine.

[Julie Doula]

I can't find a midwife who can attend me. I will be living in Bacchus Marsh and if anyone has any info I would really appreciate it. Anyone practicing on the West side of Melbourne.

Hi Jakana, here are a few midwives out in the westerly direction. Not sure who is closest to you, but why not give them a call, they would be the best ones to know if there are any indy midwives closer to you.

Tina Pettigrew BMid CBE (NACE)
Midwife in Private Practice
5 Lavina Crt
Moriac VIC 3240
Mobile: 0439398231
Services: Surfcoast Midwifery Services is a personalised, professional midwifery service specalising in homebirth and private childbirth education. Covering Greater Geelong and the Surfcoast, Colac/Otway, Ballarat and Werribee.

Andrea Quanchi
93 Campaspe Esplanade
Echuca VIC 3564
Phone: (03) 5482 6283
Mobile: 0419 246 303
Services: Independent midwife, home or hospital births, antenatal and postnatal care. Has completed a course on maternal and child health.

Kath Maxwell
Location: Geelong/Bellarine Peninsula
Phone: (03) 5251 2021
Services: Independent midwife and Calmbirth Practitioner. Antenatal care and education, labour and birth support in the hospital or in the home.

Wendy Buckland
31 Park Cresent
Wangaratta VIC 3677
Phone: (03) 57221605
Mobile: 0437 196 428
Services: I provide full antenatal care and education, labour and birth care at home or in the hospital setting and postnatal care.

[Morgaine]

What are the laws regarding giving birth without a registered midwife? I know in England its illegal, is it the same here?

Who told you that homebirth without a registered midwife in attendance was illegal? It is not to my knowledge. I'd like to see the law where it states it is illegal if one even exists!

As for Australian law, it is illegal for anyone to practice as a midwife when they are NOT a registered midwife. So that makes lay midwivery illegal. Having support people at your birth does not make it illegal because they are merely there for support, not to carry out any medical diagnosis or protocols. There are plenty of people who have freebirthed on the Mothering community from Australia and the UK. There is an Australian website about purebirth that discusses legalities, women's rights and how to go about obtaining birth certificates for homebirths without midwives in attendance.

[Schmickers]

Smickers, I wish finances didn't rule the bloody world! The midwifery community is missing out on a leader and advocate for women birthing how they want to birth. Heres to winning Lotto!

Awwww ... you, know, that is probably the nicest thing anyone has said to me today...

[paradise lost]

It is NOT illegal to birth alone in the UK. In fact a woman is legally protected in the UK to be able to birth wherever she wants. In the oath our midwives take on graduation they accept that if they are called to a birth they must go and in fact a few years back there was a ruckus over that because a woman who'd arranged a homebirth went into labour. She had been told at the 11th hour (38+5wks) there "might not" be staff to have her homebirth, but called the hospital in labour and asked for someone to attend. The midwife she spoke to had done much of her antenatal care, and was about to finish for the night. The hospital said "tell her no, she has to come in", the woman refused to go in, the midwife finished work and went straight to the woman and delivered her baby. The midwife was then fired for delivering the baby without "permission" from the hospital, though she would have been breaking her oath had she not attended. It was all a big mess, i think she left the NHS and works privately now.

In some states in america is illegal to HAVE a midwife, you must have an Ob and be in hospital. Madness!

Bx

[Chalalan]

I said that Smickers, then I went to check your gallery to see exactly how hairy a bloke-as-midwife we'd be dealing with and guess what??.....no photo!! If it turns out you're Yeti like, I might have to take it back!!