I don't understand...

[Tobily]

Wow Haydies what an awesome story! Congratulations on your beautiful baby girl, the part where you first lay eyes on her made me cry....wonderful! Enjoy her

[fionas]

Thank you so much for telling your story Haydies. I am so glad that it ended happily for you despite an absolutely appalling start and I think you did amazingly well.

It's just NOT ON for doctors to try and hurry you through when there's simply no medical need for it. Night time wake-ups are really par for the course and the only excuse would be if the doctor was actually incapacitated through sleep deprivation and potentially putting you at risk.

[Schmickers]

Wow, that is such a great story. Congratulations and well done!

I have to say...

“If we don’t give you the drip, things won’t progress until later in the day…” says Doc #2. “I’ve got nothing planned for this afternoon – I’ve freed the whole day!” I reply with a big smile. “Labour can end up taking all day, if we give you the drip now, it will get things started straight away”, he tried. “It’s ok, I got a really good car park under shade”, I rebutted.

... funniest thing I've read all day...*grin*

[BellyBelly]

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!!! You are gonna make me cry!!!! *sniff sniff*

You are so strong hon, I am so proud of what you acheived!!! Such a star. Well done for sticking it to them xx

[MantaRay]

Oh Haydies, thank you so much for sharing that wonderful story. Have you thought about becoming a doula yourself?

[nic]

Absolutely amazing the things they will say Kelly!
When I went to hospital for my 40 week check up with my DD (on a friday), I was told that if I needed a c/s over the weekend that no one would be there to perform it! I told the pr!ck that if I needed a c/s then he better get his lazy backside off the golf course and come and do it. Then asked him what he thought Qld Health would think of him saying that to me. We came to a comprimise after that and I needed the emergency c/s as it turned out, and I hope it was him that I woke in the early hours of the morning too!

So glad to hear all went well with the birth and that you were there to support the mum
Nic

[BellyBelly]

Do you know whats ironic though, you watch those shows like RPA and they have people come in from crashes etc who are religious (Jehovah's?) and they wont accept anyone else's blood... yet they get talked to with dignity and respect about what they would like and then thats okay and understood. But a woman say no to something which isn't an emergency and she gets the third degree and dragged through the coals. Not having a blood transfusion when you need it will kill you. Not wanting an induction when there is no reason for it will not. In fact, it could possibly make things worse. Why do women get the raw deal? Those who work in emergency medicine are also on overnight shifts, but I don't see them saying, 'are you working tomorrow? I hope you don't wake me up,' to a crash victim.

[LG]

That was a fantastic birth story!! Well done and congratulations!!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, was it a private ob and private hospital?

[Rouge]

Wow Haydies what an awesome birth story.

I have to say I got really angry on your behalf.

I've said it before and I'll say it again if any other person was to do a service for us and they tried to bully us into doing something against our wishes that made THEIR lives easier we wouldn't put up with it.

I personally would take this further, I'd be writing a letter to the hospital to complain.

You all did a fantastic job, and I too think Kelly is amazing.

Enjoy your babymoon and your wee little one.

[Bathsheba]

Excellent points Kelly. I think it's because we are emotionally vulnerable and they treat us that way because they CAN. Women have to refuse to be treated this way and do it intelligently not emotionally as much as possible. We need our advocates in doulas and we need to be prepared with our logical defences long before crunch time. It can be a catch 22 situation: we feel emotional about defending our rights but in being emotional we can be accused of being irrational. I think the reason why a Jehova's Witness isn't questioned without respect is because everyone knows that the person has made up their minds about the issue based on a long standing belief system. As pregnant women we need to confirm our plans as early as possible and choose our carer's wisely.

[BellyBelly]

Nope LG a Melbourne public hospital.

[fionas]

Well said Bath and thank God for BellyBelly.

I think thanks to the internet and sites like BellyBelly that women will educate themselves more about their birthing options but isn't it a shame that we need to in order to get the best care?

I used to think that women were silly for not researching more and knowing the pros and cons of various interventions because I'm a big one for taking personal responsibility. But no-one would expect that of someone who had cancer for example. They wouldn't be expected to research chemo versus other treatments and tell their doctor what they would like. They would expect their doctor to talk them through all the possible options and give them impartial advice.

Even antenatal classes gloss over this stuff. If you blinked you would barely have heard that an epidural gives you an increased chance of forceps/vacuum thingy. I had an epidural and forceps and have absolutely no regrets whatsoever because I made a judgement call on the risks well before I went into labour but if I hadn't thought about it beforehand I could have felt like the situation was getting way out of control.

[Haydies]

Thankyou for the support everyone, I'm glad you enjoyed my (very wordy) birth story. As I sit here 10 days on, being able to soak up my precious bundle all day, knowing that I did it naturally and without the need for further interventions makes it all worth it. While yes, I feel a bit jaded about the day, I refuse to let it get too me too much. Our little family is so far above the importance of a doctor that I won't let it taint us any further.

I'd love to think that Mc Nasty learnt from that day, but I highly doubt he will.

I had a of those tins of awesome shortbread butter cookies that I originally took in to 'butter up' the midwives, but because it was all a little quicker than I had thought, they ended up coming back home with us. I had been keeping them to send in with a thankyou card, but last night DH and I were chatting about who and what exactly I was thankful for. Apart from doing my monthly appointments during the pregnancy (which I never saw the same midwife twice), they didn't really do anything worthy of the cookies. So I ate them!

Oh Haydies, thank you so much for sharing that wonderful story. Have you thought about becoming a doula yourself?

Funny you should ask that. After feeling so safe in Kelly's hands, and really feeling like she was my voice outside my body, the thought did cross my mind. The only reason I don't think I'd be good at it is I'm still not the best at confrontations (actually I run away from them) and would never want to not[ be able to stand up for a client. I love the idea of being able to aid women in getting the experiences they both want and deserve, but not sure I have enough bark or bite just yet.

That said, this is bubs #1, and there's at least #2 and maybe #3 to come. Maybe after that I'll have had enough practice to rethink that profession.

LG - As Kelly mentioned, I was a public patient in a public hospital. No OB, just the midwives.

I think thanks to the internet and sites like BellyBelly that women will educate themselves more about their birthing options but isn't it a shame that we need to in order to get the best care?

For me this is pretty much the nail on the head. Being the type of person who spends far too much time on her computer as it is, I'm also hugely into researching things to the max. It's this background that brought Doula's to my attention, something I had never even heard about before. And it was only after learning what they were, that I then went on to read more and more about the difference they can make.

Being able to read up on all the different types of interventions and pain relief options so routinely given and/or offered in hospitals, as well as educate myself on the natural alternatives, truly helped me towards achieving what I wished for my birth.

I think that there are a lot of women out there who go by the Dr's word because, really, Dr's know best don't they? They've always got our best interests at heart and would never ever do anything that wasn't really necessary. For me though, this is my body, and that is the most important thing. And as evident by my labour and birth, it knew what it was doing.

[~Raven~]

Hey there Haydies Can't believe it was 10 days ago!

Reading your story has me shaking as I remember clearly the looks on your faces. No wonder I felt the tension in the air when I walked in the room.

You did a sterling job and my goodness you sure showed McNasty I loved how he only stuck his head in the room to congratulate you. Not even a shoulder!

[BellyBelly]

LOL Haydies, there are plenty of people who agree with you that I have plenty of bark and bite

But you don't need to be an expert to be a doula. You will learn all you need to know in your training - sometimes you get women who haven't had training and even men are getting in on it.

My teacher, Rhea, starts her classes in March of every year. It's people like you who have had great birth experiences but also tasted what really goes on, who can make great doulas. (as well as others of course, it just gives you a great perspective on things - me being an ex-private girl x 2 so when I talk about the private system, I have lived it).

[fionas]

Can someone just write to KevinO7 and ask him to make it mandatory for obstetricians to disclose their caesarean rate without you having to ask.

We should make that the first question people ask you when you're pregnant ie. oh, you're pregnant, fantastic, which hospital/obstetrician are you going to? And what's their caesarean rate?

It's pretty easy to find out a public hospital's caesarean rate (if you bother looking) but if you're a first timer and learning as you go, you might only ask your obstetrician quite late into your pregnancy where it would be unsettling to change.

I know caesarean rates aren't the be all and end all, but they'd have to be pretty good indicator. I'd like to see a publically available 'league table' for private obstetricians which should spark debate about why there are such huge disparities.

I completely accidentally have the obstetrician with the lowest caesarean rate in Melbourne. I say accidentally because I only went with him because all the female ones (which was my main criteria) were booked out and I didn't know about the appallingly high caesar rates before I went with him. I now say "ooh, he has the lowest blah blah blah" as a badge of honour but I think it would be quite good if women got competitive about whose ob had the lowest caesar rate!

[BellyBelly]

And add inductions to that too! Inductions effect the c/s rate

[fionas]

Absolutely. And epidurals CAN too. Now my ob (who I have deepest respect for) says that epidurals don't give you a greater chance of caesarean and I'm sure in theory that's true. BUT they do make it harder for you to push out your baby and, according to various midwives I spoke to, some obstetricians will only 'let you' push for a short amount of time and then recommend a caesarean because they would rather do that than use forceps/vacuum. One midwife told me that I was lucky that my ob 'let me' push for over two hours because ... "another ob would have only given you 15 mins then whisked you off for a caesar." Probably because they're less skilled with forceps/vacuum which in turn means you're more likely to sue. So indirectly, it appears to me, epidurals ARE leading to more caesareans but no-one is told this because theoretically it's not true. Now, I don't think that many women rock up saying 'give me a caesarean' but at my hospital (Freemasons) 50% of women have epidurals which I suspect would also increase their caesarean rate. Then after having a first one, they're more likely to have a second one than a VBAC (I think).

Anyhow, I think that's all quite tricky for a newbie to take in so just give people the caesarean rates and then let the obs have to justify themselves if they have a high one. People will soon start using it as a criteria for their choice and their 'buisness' will go down if they're high intervention. Once it starts affecting their pocket, things will change.

Oh gosh, hope that makes sense.