Any other mums doing IVF

[lp3535]

I hear where you're coming from Sushee, but we feel how we feel, no matter what others tell us we should feel. Can we at least make it a sticky?

It's more as a courtesy to those that are still struggling to become parents that the idea of somewhere we can chat without feeling guilty is appealing. It's the same reason people are expected to move on to the "pregnancy after LTTTC" forum once they get a bfp.

It's not to exclude those that have not yet had a baby, but it does mean that everyone is aware that it is an area where children may be mentioned. I know there are other areas on bb that are for talking about children, but there needs to be a place within LTTTC where we can feel free to mention our children.

I know that we have just as much right to feel grief from our secondary infertility, however, I can still imagine how others that don't have any children may view it.

This has been my first thread that I've really posted on, and the only reason I did so was because it was an invitation to mothers doing ivf. Until then, I'd just been a lurker!

[sushee]

lp3535,

I understand how it sometimes can be hard to find where you 'fit' if there isn't a thread specific to your circumstance, but the truth is, I am thinking of the larger community when I have opposed a separate thread. I too have had moments of 'where do I belong?' after I had my son, Charlie, and was trying to figure whether I should wean him so I could have my FET. But I also realised that there would obviously never be a "TTC with Assisted Conception but not really Long Term while Breastfeeding" thread. It was the realisation that in fact IVF and AC, including the feelings involved, are pretty much universal to all of us that made me realise that we are in fact all in the same boat, and there is no need for us to feel like one group is different to another. We're not different.

Like I said previously, I've never ever felt that I didn't belong in the LTTTC forums, and as a mother of 3 kids when I did IVF, and 4 kids now, I absolutely do not believe that the LTTTC thread is somewhere I shouldn't be posting in, and I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise. As Willow and Anney have pointed out too, the IVF mums and the IVFers without kids have always previously cycled together, and posted in the same thread, without incident, and have made great friends and received amazing support in the process. The IVFers without kids have never ever asked for us to be separated from them, so it's not really true to say that it's not about excluding them, because that's exactly what we'd be doing.

I have read this thread, and tbh the conversations so far have been about the same things that all IVFers go through, barring perhaps the effect of your treatment on your child/ren, emotionally and practically. Personally I believe this one point of difference doesn't warrant a completely separate thread.

If Bec G had started a thread that was about 'how does IVF effect your children' and it stayed on that topic, I wouldn't be here. It would be a geniune discussion about an aspect of LTTTC. But in this case I am specifically addressing the point raised of wanting another 'chat' thread for IVF mums, and to explain the reasons as to why I don't support it. General chat about your kids can be done in the other 95% of BB, and does not need to happen in LTTTC, esp if it's not LTTTC related. If you really do feel for those who don't yet have a child, surely we should not have a sitcky thread in this particular forum for people to discuss their kids, esp when they have the rest of BB at their disposal.

[lp3535]

Hi Sushee,

I don't see why then we are banned from mentioning the effects on our children in the LTTTC thread. We're not talking about what our children's first words are, or how many teeth they have, we can talk to our friends and families about those sorts of things. We are talking about the difficulties of doing IVF/AC with small children, and how that effects them, and the difficulties and challenges that we face because we have children.

As BecG said, she never said said anything, but deep down she did have ill feelings towards women trying for #2 and beyond. I remember a thread a while ago (can't remember where, it was when I first started reading threads!), where people were talking about couples taking children to IVF appointments. Some LTTTCers were completely fine with it, while others were quite upset by it. And there were a couple of people who actually spoke like they hated children. I could understand with all the emotions that go with TTC#1 how it would feel like rubbing salt into a wound.

I know that not everyone feels this way, but just as you felt completely comfortable posting in the general LTTTC threads, some of us clearly don't. If it's purely treatment related, or offering others advice, it's fine, but when it comes to my own journey and challenges, I just don't feel comfortable.

Clearly there are a few people here who feel the same way, otherwise there would have been no follow up posts, but please to not imply that I don't feel for those that don't have children because I suggested a sticky. I only suggested it to protect other people's feelings and to give us somewhere where we can be honest and open about our feelings, without having to hide our children away.

Anyway, that's my opinion. This is why it was much easier lurking, than actually getting involved! lol

[Baby Bliss]

I have never been given reason to feel guilty from anyone on these boards or any other, tbh..its my own feelings that bother me! I am happy to have a thread like this, but I tend to use the ongoing ltttc thread for my updates etc, and its a great support in there.

My thinking is, if you are comfortable in there, use it! If you prefer this, then use this, doesn't need to be stuck or whatever for you to use it?

[Visitor9]

Why I stared this thread was the need to be able to discuss the whole impact that IVF is having not only on me, DH and DD. The need to talk about when you are having highly hormonal days there isnt the opportunity to crawl into bed and watch the days go bye till you are feeling in a better place. I have a whole other aspect to consider now, like the need to ask Did you take your child to an internal ultrasound? Believe me I never did IVF the easy way and like Sushee said there is many places I coud slot into but to be fair there is only a select few that have had stillbirth after IVF and I prefer to take it one day at time and at this time I am dealing with IVF.
I dont care if this is a sticky or a sub section all I care about it that I can have one thread that it is ok to mention DD and IVF in the same sentence without having to go back and edit on the grounds that I may make others deal with any other issues but there cycle.
Heres hoping that in 3 weeks there isnt a need for me to post here and I am in a pregnancy buddy group LOL.
But for the first time in a long time...I felt that I have come into contact with women that really understand me and where I am at this time...a stressful time but also an exciting time.

[lil_chookie]

I talk with a group of women in another forum in a private ltttc section with me being the only one that does not have at least 1 child. While I have made a bond with these women and I cannot put into words how important the support has been, our journeys are different. They are dealing with things in a way that I cannot understand and visa versa. I think me being around afffects the freeness of expressing certain things regarding their children sometimes because they feel guilty talking like that in front of me. Of course they do not need to, but they do and I guess that is just a bit of human nature.

I think having a sperate thread about TTC with IVF would not create haves & have nots, it would just give those women soomewhere to go and get some understanding, for example in the same way on BB as there are seperate threads for Pregnancy after LTTTC & Preganacy after Miscarriage & loss for women to talk about the journey with others sharing the same feelings right along aide them. Because there are different feelings & emotions it makes sense to have a seperate thread.

I have not actively talked in the LLLTC thread for quite a awhile. A few years ago I did and I was nowhere near my IVF journey but alot of the talk in there was about that and I found I could not relate. There are so many different ways you can come at LTTTC & AC and sometimes while we all seem the same, we are actually very different.

Bec - if there is no sperate sticky thread why don't you start a journal? then you can freely discuss whatever you would like to.

[lp3535]

The only reason I suggested a sticky was so that it is easy for other mums to find. But I guess if we keep talking, it will always stay active and up the top anyway.

[sushee]

What I suppose bothers me about this is the fact that the IVF childless are not asking to be separated. If you, as someone who TTC#1, begrudged the women who were tryng for #2,#3, etc, I would think having to be a part of a thread with them would eventually allow you to realise that their pain and journey was the same as yours. And if you didn't realise that at the time, having a sparate thread for them to chat to the exlusion of you certainly wouldn't have helped you learn to be more sympathectic to them, in fact I would expect not having to 'deal' with those suffering secondary infertility might allow you to be less sympathetic.

I recognise that some of you feel the discomfort of posting in the LTTTC forum, whether it's because you can't talk about how IVF is effecting your family, or because you can't post your ticker in this one particular forum. But I believe that it does women who suffer from infertility an injustice to keep catergorising us as different. I have made my point in previous posts: I believe our community has been strong thus far because we intergrate, we learn from each other, we recognise that we are at different stages at our lives, but we also recognise the sameness of our pain and struggle.

BB will never be every thing to every person, and as with every community, you come in, you try to fit, and if you don't want to fit, you try to make your own place. But not everyone will get their own place, it's not possible and it's not always in the community's best interest. Members like me and anney and Willow who have been through this and come out the other side can see how we are getting more and more segregated and, while necessary sometimes, it's divided us and made us less understanding of each other.

So while it may be that a few of you feel like a separate thread for you is warranted, I, and a lot of other people, do not agree that it is the best thing for the BB IVF community. To say you only wish to discuss your journey 'with women who really understand me' or 'to give us somewhere where we can be honest and open about our feelings, without having to hide our children away' implies that those who have not yet had a child are incapable of supporting you, and that is very much is your perception, not the perceptions of those who you assume you can't talk to.

I will also mention that in my time doing IVF, I did in fact discuss my kids in the LTTTC thread, but in the context of how they were affected by my treatment. I was sensitive to those around me, and did not discuss general things about my kids, and I did not display my ticker. That seemed a really small courtesy for me to afford them, and they in turn learnt about me as a person, and as a mother. I'm sure Willow and anney would say the same. So what is it really about? That you don't want to offend anyone or that you want the kind of freedom to discuss your kids that you already have in the rest of BB?

I actually said that I would not have interfered with a thread that was specifically about how IVF effects your family/kids, but this thread was heading towards talking about general IVF stuff under the guise of being only open to mums who are going back to IVF. It was becoming a psuedo chat thread, and it has been discussed and agreed on on many previous occasions that it would not be in the best interests of this forum to have a separate thread for secondary infertility.

It was actually originally decided that this thread be closed should it continue to be general chat, but rather than do that, I came in and explained my reasons in opposing it to you all, and have been open to being convinced otherwise. But I honestly believe that the discomfort and the feeling of not belonging that you have put forward as your main reason for another thread is a flawed perecption that you would eventually get over if you gave it a chance. By your own admissions, many of you have not/not often posted in the LTTTC thread to begin with. At a time when we didn't have a choice, and we all talked in one forum (the donor conception, the LTAC, the LTTTC, the clomid, the natural TTC etc) we all got on just fine because we didn't have the luxury of feeling uncomfortable. We either posted together or we didn't get the support we needed.

So I will put a finer point to this: you can absolutely discuss how IVF effects you and your family in this forum. That, after all, is LTTTC related. So, Bec, if you wanted to discuss the effects of IVF on your DH and DD, can you please start a new thread about that specific topic? And as long as it (and any other threads specifically about IVF-related chld issues) stays on topic, I will not close it.

But the mods have decided that we are not going to have a separate chat thread for secondary infertility, so attempts to create such a thread in LTTTC for the purpose of 'feeling free' to openly discuss your children will be closed henceforth.

Many have asked for their own threads, and if we believe it's in the best interests of the community, we will oblige. We do try our best to please our members. But if we don't agree that it will be in the best interests of the larger community, we try to explain to the best of our ability the reasons behind it, which I well and truly feel I have done now.

This thread will now be closed, and further discussion about this can be done with me directly offline either via PM or email.

[{sarah}]

Whilst the mod team can understand the reasoning behind a thread like this, a chatter group for mums doing IVF at this point in time we have decided against it. As Sushee has said, LT TTCers already feel segregated from those that get their pregnancies more easily, why would we want to further that segregation? It feels a little like "well we have one or more child/ren our struggles are now different to yours" which simply isn't true. The LT TTC struggles are the same regardless if you have no children yet or if you have five children already.

To discuss the difficulties your partners or children are facing why not start up a thread for specifically that? Maybe "How has IVF affected your partner / husband?" and then one like "How has IVF affected your other children?" Both would generate some interesting responses I suspect, but without the need to segregate BB members even further than they already are.

Please understand that we're not trying to make things difficult for you or trying to take a place to chat away from you, we're just trying to keep the peace and make BB a happy place for everyone. You feel shunned for already having children in the LT TTC threads, but imagine how you would have felt if a thread this existed before you had your children. There's yet another thread on BB (and within your own section) that you just couldn't be a part of yet. It's hard enough as it is without that don't you think?

All ladies going through IVF are "mums doing IVF" even if their bubs aren't on this earth yet....