Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - June 2007

[sushee]

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[sushee]

BW great news on your transfer. Good luck for Monday!

[happymel]

Hi BW. I was at work when DH went for appt with urologist, actually glad i didnt go because he doesnt sound like a very nice person, and well i probably might have let him know that. Going for the surgery. He told DH not to let his wife choose/decide for him, that is totally his decision. Like BLAH, does this guy have any idea what i have been through, what we have!! I was angry at that. Its kinda nice not to have the focus on me, and for DH to have surgery hehee!! DH is in defence force so have to go with the urologist they chose. Lets just hope he is a good surgeon!! Anyway, we both want a baby and this might improve our chances so of course DH wants to do it, silly doctor!! I also have endometriosis, DH low count, motility, everything, so will just have to wait and see how the surgery goes. Apparently there is a lot of controversial sort of "evidence" and it doesnt def improve count and everything, but we are willing to try everything. How was the surgeon that you went to??

[ATryingTime]

Afternoon Ladies,

Wow, there certainly is a lot going on in here of late, you don’t post for a while (even if you do read) and then when you do post, you need a good half hour to write one.

BG - Hope you are hanging in there with your 2WW.

BW - Yay, How exciting to finally have a date for transfer. Best of luck with everything.

Ellie - My thoughts will be with you tomorrow.

HappyMel - Sorry for your loss, hope AF arrives and you can move onto the FET. Best of luck.

Chez - Congrats on starting Synarel and good luck with this cycle.

Blayz - I'm not sure what I can say to ease your stress, I guess make sure you have all the information you need to ease your mind a little, and maybe immerse yourself in a good book.

Kotare - Good luck with this next cycle, how soon do you need to make your decision between Synarel and Lucrin?

Babyface - Hope those levels have increased by Friday, I will be thinking of you.

Runnermum – Welcome, heres hoping you get great results on the BT

Rols – Welcome, It will be nice to view this journey from a male point of view. This journey is hard on everybody, no matter the part you play. Hope we can answer some questions; provide insight, etc as you continue on your journey.

Sonya – Glad to hear you have rough dates for your FET, I’m sure the time will continue to pass quickly.

Lou – Good to see you, when are you starting your next cycle?

Nic – Not long now to your appointment with the FS.

Shannon – Did you get the job?

To anyone that I have missed…..Sorry and a big

Not much happening with me, just waiting till we have our preliminary tests done in just over 2 weeks; hopefully will we know more then and be able to develop a plan of attack.
On a side note, other than Shannon, has anybody else here changed jobs/careers whilst TTC? If so, did you tell perspective employers or not? I am looking at changing careers and went and dropped my resume with a business last night and had a quick chat with them. As I will be changing careers completely I will require formal training, etc. I’m not even sure that anything will come of it, but if it does, what are your thoughts? To tell or not to tell – that is the question.
Hope everyone else is getting some of this rain that we are getting here. It’s looking like a nice night to curl up in front of the fire.

[slyder]

Hi again everyone.

Thanks heaps to kotare, chez, babyface, briggsy's girl and butterfly warrior (And anyone I missed) for your great comments.

I'm really interested to read where you guys are all at too. It makes things a lot more mentally manageable to know other people are doing exactly the same kind of stuff. For me it's also reassuring to see that your blokes are, in some cases, in a similar boat as me. It's hard to find anything about blokes and their specific issues.

Kotare, I laughed at your post regarding your fella's "contribution"! I must say that whole aspect of it has totally spun me out. I guess I'm naive but it never occurred to me that I'd have to trot off into a little room and produce some goods.

Had to provide another sample for the andrology people to critique ($280! with trial wash and whatever else). Apparently just to determine whether we need IVF or ICSI. It would have to be ICSI, surely, with 96% head defects and 100% overall crappy morphology. Although from previous tests they said my TZI score (average defects per swimmer) was between 1 and 1.6 which apparently is a good thing.

My wife had her start of cycle blood test yesterday for whatever it is they have to test for. Ultasound for her soon as well and then back to FS on the 19th.

[butterfly_warrior]

Happymel, we've had a very interesting varicocele journey...

It all started when my first gyn prescribed clomid and asked DH to have a semen analysis. The gyn gave us the bad news that DH had crappy sperm over the phone, and when he also gave me the bad news that clomid hadn't worked for me over the phone (after chasing him for three days to get a day 21 blood test result!) I swore I would never have anything else to do with him again. Meanwhile, my acupuncturist got DH to go to a specialist semenologist to have a better SA done. Results came back with bad morphology, bad motility and low count. The summary was "unfit for natural conception". My acupuncturist started talking varicoceles, and we eventually got DH off to a GP for a check up.

There's 4 grades of varicoceles. Grade 1 is subclinical - can only be found by ultrasound scan. Grade 2 - varicocele can be felt only while straining (they call it a valsalva technique, or something like that). Grade 3 - varicocele can be felt normally, and Grade 4 is where the varicocele causes pain. DH has a grade 3.

My acupuncturist has suggested embolisation as being better - less traumatic and quicker recovery. The first urologist DH went to would only talk surgery and DH is a little freaked out about that.

Meanwhile, our FS handed us a Cochrane review and told us that while repairing the varicocele may improve semen paramaters, it would not improve pregnancy rates, so we may as well do IVF anyway. As I have PCOS the clinic would do ICSI anyway, and DH's sperm need ICSI so there was no point to doing the repair unless it bothered him.

We went away and did a stack of research. A friend in England went through the Cochrane review and picked faults in the studies we could actually get hold of. Essentially, a lot of the studies dealt with men who have sub-clinical varicoceles and a normal semen analysis anyway. If you get to a study that deals with men with thumping great big varicoceles, normal hormone profiles and no other factors effecting fertility, then the varicocele repair DOES in fact improve sparm quality and number and DOES increase pregnancy rates. I still have the critique that my friend did on it... very interesting.

DH was happier with the embolisation idea so we went off to urologist number 2. Urologist number 2 sent us to RPA to have the embolisation done there (so much for staying local! We're at Windsor!), and they couldn't get to the right place as DH has funny veins. We know of a team that goes from the neck down rather than the groin and up and around, so there may be a chance the alternative route will get us to the right place, or it could mean that DH is up for surgery as well.

So... anything else you want to know about varicoceles?

Thanks so much for the good luck wishes for the transfer... I'm still freaked out by the whole idea. Excited, nervous, happy, terrified... I'm glad I've got time between now and Monday to calm down, and the weekend to de-stress... Wheeeee! What a day!

BW

[Chez67]

Wow BW - excellent news! Your description of you running around the room waving your arms about in circles made me laugh! I can imagine that I will react exactly the same way when I find out about my first EPU/ET date! Congratulations and lots of positive vibes coming your way for Monday and beyond

Hi Happymel - both DP and myself were in the defence force as well. Our experience and others that we know of who were in the same system was that they would always try to find the best doctor or surgeon in their field to do any surgery or procedures. There is just too much as stake for them to go with a cheap option as the liability cases down the track would be very costly if things went wrong. So, have faith that if surgery is the way to go then they will refer you to someone who is well respected in their field, but as always, ask lots and lots of questions and trust your gut feeling.

To everyone else, good luck with everything, must go. Chat soon.

[Ellie]

A Trying Time
I'm having huge dramas with my work at the moment and as a result will probably just resign...I have spoken to Equal Oportunities and there advice to me was in the future not to tell my boss anything...basically it's none of their business...when you need time off work give them a Dr's certificate and keep it really simple...otherwise 'the line in the sand' becomes unclear and in my situation the boss has been totally inappropriate but because I shared information thinking it was 'the right thing to do' they can claim that I wanted to be treated differently...if that make any sense....anyway...I've been burnt really bad so I'm talking from the extreme negative...just be careful I guess and do what feels right for you!

[happymel]

BW and Chez, thanks for all your info. Wow BW- you seem to know everything about varicoceles. I think DH must be stage 3 i will have to ask if i ever see this urologist!! It just never seemed obvious before but can see it now. You can feel it easy and also see it when he is standing up but not so much sitting down. I think we feel that we will just have the surgery and whatever happens happens. If it makes a difference then thats great but if it doesnt, well at least we have tried everything. Chez- the defence force have kinda been ok, except dont want anything to do with paying anything on the ivf even though FS thinks they should, as reason we are doing ICSI is because of male infertility, and dont seem to think endo is problem. Sometimes they are so frustrating GRRRR. Already DH was away for our first IVF cycle Im sure the urologist will be fine, he was just rude!! Happy i wasnt there!! OOoo i dont like rude doctors!! So many questions to ask FS when next see him. Im just worried they are concentrating and thinking its mainly a male factor infertility, and that my endo doesnt really make a diff. I hope they are right. I had stage 4 end (severe) dx at lap last year Nov and removed, also endometrioma taken off ovary.
Rols- great to see a guy on here and have male perspective too. Its good to hear things from another point of view.

[Lenny]

Kotare - Good luck with this next cycle, how soon do you need to make your decision between Synarel and Lucrin?

I need to decide soon - need to start taking it next week, and have to arrange a prescription and get the chemist to order one or other in for me. I am a wimp. I hate choice. I feel i'll make the wrong one!

On a side note, other than Shannon, has anybody else here changed jobs/careers whilst TTC? If so, did you tell perspective employers or not? I am looking at changing careers and went and dropped my resume with a business last night and had a quick chat with them. To tell or not to tell – that is the question.

Some know this here, but my lovely DH dragged me to Melbourne about a year ago, and i have been studying and looking for work since then. I feel i am overlooked when i apply for jobs as there is the assumption that i will just have kids straight away (which i would love to do - but i have no control over!). I do get asked every time (even though they aren't allowed to) if i have kids and when i say No, i immediately get the feeling that they expect me to get pg real soon. I have questioned friends who are in the recruitment industry and they say that although this sort of discrimination is not allowed, it happens all the time. And in my case they are right - i would love to be UTD. But it still seems unfair. I'd love to be working too!!
A close friend who has been TTC for 6 years now changed careers 2 years ago. And she told them exactley what she was up to in relation to TTC when they requested a second interview. She got the job still and they love her and once she started they told her that good people are hard to find and even if they only had her for a short while it would be worth it. Nice aye. She is still working there and she has a good relationship with them when it comes to needing time off for appts etc, and she has a great feeling about her job and the give/take nature of their workplace. So, she would tell you to tell them up front.
My counsellor told DH and i that we must live our lives every day as though we weren't TTC - i.e. move house, change career, holidays etc, but we all know that this is not possible.
Sorry for waffling on. Good luck ATT!

[briggsy's girl]

hmmm, what a chatty bunch!!! i agree ATT - it can be very difficult to keep up and post replies sometimes - and i'm on here every night!!!!

happymel - welcome - and hope your DH's surgery next week is successful - i'm in the same midset as you - if there is ANYTHING we can do to help - well, we're there!!!

ATT - i was at the start of the AC journey when i started my current job - didn't tell them for ages what was going on - i have now told a couple of members of management (mainly so that they understand my need for extra flexibility) - it's one of those things that i personally wouldn't share because, as much as they'll say it's another reason, a lot of companies would consider it too much to deal with and not hire you.... good luck with whatever you decide

Rols - good luck with to you and your DW entering this rollercoaster ride - my DH has been my biggest source of support through all of this, and i'm sure you're wife appreciates your efforts to better understand and support her! I LOL'd at your comments about having to go to the "little room" and produce your part of the genetic code - maybe talk to your clinic - we lived close enough to the clinc that DH was able to do his part at home (and wasn't he happy with that?!?!? performed on command and all LOL!!)

BW - again - a huge congrats on finally getting a transfer day - i'm sure the image of you running around screaming like a mad woman will be in my mind for a few days! ROFL

Ellie - my thoughts are with you for tomorrow hun - i can't claim to know what you're going through - i just hope things go smoothly and that you're up and about quickly. take care hun


as for me - took myself to the GP today cos i'm going slowly insane with this need to go pee every five minutes - she seems to think i have bruising from the actual IUI process and i just need to "wait" for it to heal. hmmmm. cos i don't have enough "waiting" in my life! she did a HPT at the clinic which came up negative, but i'm not phased - i actually see it as a good thing - it's a sign that the pregnyl is pretty much out of my system so if we test at the weekend, the result will be true... well, that's my theory anyway!

[slyder]

Good luck with the tests ATryingTime. And yep, it's raining here too.

Ellie, you shouldn't have to put up with crap from your employer. They pay you to work for them - you don't give your time to put up with petty rubbish. If you are in a position to move jobs then I reckon go for it.

Butterfly Warrior and Happymel, I thought I'd better look up this varicocele thing so I looked intelligent. Now I'm wondering if this could be my problem (based on 5 mins research). What ****es me off is that neither my doctor nor FS has shown any interest in performing an examination of me which seems totally bizarre. I even suggested it to the GP but she wasn't interested. Recently, I have been getting very mild pain/discomfort downstairs and I wonder if it's in my mind given what I now know about my sperm, or whether it is real. Further, I'm not sure if these varicocele thingos can cause sperm to be abnormal, or just low in numbers, because numbers isn't my problem. Any thoughts on this from you very knowledgeable ladies?

So, when we go for our next FS appt, I am definitely asking about this.

Kotare, I reckon your counsellor is totally spot on. That is exactly what we are trying to do and I reckon it's the only way to go.

[butterfly_warrior]

Rols, forgive my scatter-brainedness, I know you mentioned the problem earlier, but I can't remember what it was.

What had my acupuncturist thinking varicocele was the fact that we had a triple-defect. Low count, low morphology and low motility. Apparently that's an indication that there is one there.

I have to run out now, so I'll try to answer more of your questions when I get back later.

BW

[slyder]

Me gotta run too, but back tonight. To answer your question I have a good sperm count (260+ million) but 96% have head defects, and a few other defects here and there but much lesser in terms of percentage. The TZI score (avg defect per sperm) is 1-ish, which apparently is a good thing. Motility is around 44%.

I'd rather a low count with good quality!

[happymel]

Rols, no one examined DH either or even did any sort of physical, they just said it was just one of those things that happened, male infertility, unexplained. It might be worth just asking them about it then its just another thing you can rule out. It wont hurt, the more things they can exclude the less questioning or wondering why there will be. The varicocele is not easy to see, so guess can be easy to miss (well def actually!!). Im not sure if it would have or will make a difference to us TTC, but its another glimmer of hope for us now. We only have one more embryo on ice, and then its another full cycle. So we will do the FET if the embro survives t/f, and then just wait and see if DH's surgery makes any difference to sperm count/quality.
Ellie- your work really sounds bad at the moment. I have a lot of nice people at my work, some not so nice but thats with anywhere. A handful of people knew that i was doing ivf, and then i had many questions when i said i was pregnant- how??? when your husband isnt here???? when i miscarried, i decided i had had enough of the questions and just everything. I was tired of people asking when i am going to have a baby, people comparing me to others who had miscarried etc... Work is such a big part of our lives and if your not happy at work, it does really impact on the rest of your life. Im looking to change my job too, but looking for the right job first. Its not going to be easy, especially with the TTC thing happening, but its important to feel supported and also happy in your work life also.

[Loula]

wowe what a lot of chatter that is going on at the mo!

I havent been in much as im not cycling just yet, not that i dont want to just waiting really. Anywho i though i better welcome the ew arrivals and wishing them all the success (and to all who i already know.lol)

Bbyface, Rols, Blayz, Hmel and rmum (i have to shorten your names already.lol GL hope we can help you as much as we have helped and surported one another so far with our journys.

Bbyface - im with Monash too and have been since 2003 with a year at MIVF last years, but now im back at Monash and i will be going through Epworth but have always been through Clayton, but it's a much for a muchness really with travell and my NP is in the city so it does make it a little easier

Rols good to have a guys perspective on things i say (if you dont mind) sorry if you read my gengerlizing my DH but he is really a good man.lol he does tend to let me deal with all out TTC as he sees it until recently as 'my' issue?????but he is attending appointment and stuff which is an emprovemnet but i do tend to do most of it!

Nic great news on DH SA whooooohoooo Fantastic

Ellie GL for tomorrow hun i will be thinking of you. Ive had several D&C (may even be four?) and although they are not pleasent sometimes 'stuff' needs to happen. Ill be thinking of you

BW- WTG ill be following your TWW closely and im sure you will be pleasently suprised with a BFP can i ask though why would ICSI be recomended for you with regards to the PCOS? i thought it was mainly for SA problems?

ATT - i didnt change jobs so to speak but i was transfered and it has been the most positive experiance ever and i am so much happier but it hasnt helped me to gain my BFP SO FAR but i know it will. wink, wink. like the others have said do it for you not just incase you might get pg, hope that helps?

Shannon Hows things hun? Get the job?

Chez - Gl and hoping this cycle brings you much joy, its great to get started although i always s$!t myself a little at the start esp with injections (dont worry thay are a walk in the park)but once you get going its a great feeling, and when your like me and doing your 9th go at IVF it only feels strainge when your NOT cyceling!

Jo - hey we may even be cycle buddies by the time we get af? when are you due sorry fot the TMI!

BG how you holding up hun? not long to go now........................OK,OK,OK its still ages away and dont worry im suffering too waiting to hear your BT results, ill be on 24 hr look out Saturday.lol

well not much happening here just waiting for af.

Anyone heard from Megan, summer and Holly, hope your all Ok and understand if your not posting at the mo but just looking out for you IYKWIM?

wishing you all a wonderful week and bbl to check in
xx

[briggsy's girl]

hehehe - i could really mess with people here, couldn't i?? i could wait until REALLY late on Saturday night to post my results..... mwahahahah! evil evil thought!!

hiya lou - i hear you on the waiting - it just sucks - hopefully it won't be too long before you kick off again - would be great to have a heap of us graduate out of her and into the belly buddy threads (even if our due dates are a few weeks apart!!). the antagonist protocol Mac has suggested this time around for you is so much quicker - AF arrives, day 2 you start puregon - and 10 days later i had trigger - sooooooo much better than waiting forever for synarel - shortened the cycle by a good 2 weeks....

this wait is just killing me - but hey, i'm down to less than 100 hours now til i can test....

[Ellie]

hehehe...I have just had the biggest giggle I've had in weeks...thank you Rols...I missed along the way you're a bloke and reading your posts I was very confused...sperm count and all...anyway you had to be there but it was soooooo good to laugh even if it was at myself!!!!! Welcome...my DH is most impressed...he'll be on here next cramping (pardon the pun under the current circumstances) my style!!!!