Yes i was ironing them.. maybe thats where i went wrong. Standing over an ironing board thinking there must be more to life than this!. DS threw a spanner into my computer time yesterday so i endevour to sit down over the next few days and look into it properly. i definiately like the idea of the trying 2nd hand first, because as you all have said there seems to be so many to choose from. Could become my new addiction maybe?