The Pagan viewpoint on grief?

[Fleur]

Yup yup, I agree with Tei, Nettie and Sop. I feel that their energy has moved onto a higher plain (so to speak) but that doesn't mean that they're not still with us, they always will be there, just.... different than before.

Argh I know what I wanna say but I can't find the words to explain it.

Well, that's pretty close to how I would say it.

I personally believe this... That we come into this world with a contract - an agreement of what we will serve, what we will acheive, what we will learn, what we will teach. What we'll experience.

This is the cycle. So when we have fulfilled our contract it's time for our Earthly body to "die". But I also believe that we have a Karma - a karmic contract to fulfil. So every single person whom we've touched or interacted with helped to fulfil that contract. So we all agreed to this before we incarnated in this lifetime.

So if we take it to Lucy & my personal beliefs which are only my own & not right or wrong! Lucy came in with a contract and she had fulfilled that & her body died. Before her incarnation she agreed to what she lived. Her children agreed in their incarnation to suffer the loss of her. Her own mother the same. Not because we all want pain but as spiritual beings we are aware from deep pain comes our most perfect wisdom.

So we all contracted - group karma to share parts of our lives together.

I believe when someone dies there is a time when they are very close -soon after death. Where they kinda make sure that all is okay - perhaps they help to direct the way things happen, inspire the ones left behind to do what needs to be done with spiritual wisdom that they can tap into because they are closer to Source when they don't have a body...

I could go on and on but that is my belief... xxx

I have read this somewhere before, and it is one of those ideas that resonated with me. I have taken it on as part of my mixed bag of beliefs.

What do I think.... all kinds of things.... I had an argument with a friend of mine, years ago, after losing (another) dear friend; I said that I thought really grief was a selfish kind of emotion, that the soul that has moved on is in a better place, on a higher plane, and just where they are meant to be. our grief is all about our loss; our missing them. She thought I was saying that it was ok that they had died, and I said no that's not what I meant... but then again, it is part of life & death & the whole circle,and I DO believe that the soul who has departed is much better off than those of us who are left behind.
ETA - I truly hope that's not offensive to anyone here, and I hope I've explained it properly

In working with energy... for me, it supports the idea of a soul that moves on after the physical death.. that energy doesn't just cease to exist. It's still there.

I find the Pagan way is generally whatever way you've decided for yourself (not being told by an 'authority') and what feels right and in tune with the cycles of nature (seasons, life/death/rebirth, dark/light, etc). So if you're nodding reading that, you're Pagan!

That might just make me pagan

[Arimeh]

That might just make me pagan

Or just be like me - a neo-pagan

[Inanna]

Fleur I wanted to say I LOVED "mongrel spirituality"! You really caused me to laugh!

I feel that grief is our sadness - that is pretty normal & healthy. But the one that has passed over - well he/she can also in the time after death cause us to recieve messages/ synchronicities that enlighten us or open us up to our own spirituality/spiritual world...

Great thread Nettie...xxx

[Fleur]

I wanted to add to what I said earlier... that I have a really hard time reconciling what I know / believe, and what I feel. In my head I might be logically thingking "it's ok, they are in a better place" but my heart is hurting and the pain is like nothing else.
But I too think that is normal... we are living human lives here on earth, grief is a human emotion. Where I am right now it's asking too much to not be sad when we lose someone.

My mother lost her partner when I was 10. For a month or so after I used to 'pray' and talk to him (not having a better word for it at the time) and I have done so with others I have lost who have been close to me. I do feel them, their presence, for some time afterwards. I think this might be a case of them helping our transition - helping us to adjust to a world without them.

[Nettie]

I agree Fleur - I think grief is all about us missing the person who has passed and not about our fear for where they are or are going.

I also talk to those that have passed. Just last night I felt my Mum touch my hair like she used to when I was a child. That helped me a lot.

[~TT40~]

to add to what ive said.... when i say someones path has taken them somewhere that doesnt involve me, i dont think of it as a 'higher plane'

Higher plane of exsistance doesnt sit well with me...sure if someone is a great person they desearve to go to one...but i dont know...i just dont feel comfortable thinking of it like that...makes me uneasy in the stomach. they are just somewhere different to me/us. not better or worse...just different.

[Arimeh]

to add to what ive said.... when i say someones path has taken them somewhere that doesnt involve me, i dont think of it as a 'higher plane'

Higher plane of exsistance doesnt sit well with me...sure if someone is a great person they desearve to go to one...but i dont know...i just dont feel comfortable thinking of it like that...makes me uneasy in the stomach. they are just somewhere different to me/us. not better or worse...just different.

I probably didn't explain it very well, and even now I can't think of any way to put it - I don't mean a higher plain as if they are sitting on top of a cloud in heaven looking down on us.. more like ... I dunno.. like a different dimension? Is that a better way of explaining it? Argh I suck at explaining this stuff and what I mean.

[Michelle71]

Higher plane (to me) just means the soul is at a different place, unencumbered by human frailties. They are without hate, jealousy, fear. They are in a higher plane, surrounding us with love. Not in the sense of heaven and hell where the good go one way and the bad go another. I guess just surrounding us, not tied to the earthly plane.

Probably as clear as mud

[Arimeh]

Geez Michelle that makes more sense to me than my own response does.. LOL

[NaeNae]

higher plane (to me) just means the soul is at a different place, unencumbered by human frailties. They are without hate, jealousy, fear. They are in a higher plane, surrounding us with love. Not in the sense of heaven and hell where the good go one way and the bad go another. I guess just surrounding us, not tied to the earthly plane.

Probably as clear as mud

yeah that ^^^

[Nettie]

to add to what ive said.... when i say someones path has taken them somewhere that doesnt involve me, i dont think of it as a 'higher plane'

Higher plane of exsistance doesnt sit well with me...sure if someone is a great person they desearve to go to one...but i dont know...i just dont feel comfortable thinking of it like that...makes me uneasy in the stomach. they are just somewhere different to me/us. not better or worse...just different.

To me - 'higher plane' means to progress or move on in the cycle of reincarnation or karmic evolution. Not to go up.. just on. Does that make sense??

[Fleur]

Higher plane (to me) just means the soul is at a different place, unencumbered by human frailties. They are without hate, jealousy, fear. They are in a higher plane, surrounding us with love. Not in the sense of heaven and hell where the good go one way and the bad go another. I guess just surrounding us, not tied to the earthly plane.

Probably as clear as mud

To me - 'higher plane' means to progress or move on in the cycle of reincarnation or karmic evolution. Not to go up.. just on. Does that make sense??

:yeahthat: to both... not literally higher...same as your higher self.

I seem to be having issues getting my point across today - that or people everywhere are being overly sensitive and taking offence to everything lol

So I just wanted to add to my above post that "selfish" doesn't mean "bad"...

I think in our society we are taught that being selfish is bad or wrong, something we don't wish to aspire to. However, I would like to use the word for itself, not for it often misused assumption that those who doing something selfishly are bad...

Just want to clear that up so I don't upset anyone. "Selfish" is simply self-serving, self-oriented... about ones self, with no regard for anyone else.
And when applied to grief, then it is not bad or wrong to be selfish, it is so so personal a thing to experience.
As I said, I think it is selfish, but that isn't bad, and nor does it mean it isn't natural or necessary. It is not something to be stifled or hidden.

I gotcha and I think the argument with my friend years ago was caused by a similar misunderstanding. I think I used the word selfish earlier...and then worried I may have offended. But it is exactly what you said - it just means it's about YOU & how you feel, not the soul who has departed. And it's not bad at all. I would like to think that when I go, I will be missed enough for people to be a bit selfish & sad for themsleves.

[kelebek]

I too would described my beliefs as mongrel spirituality (hope the pagans don't mind us crashing thier party ) and believe in the cycle of life.

What do I think.... all kinds of things.... I had an argument with a friend of mine, years ago, after losing (another) dear friend; I said that I thought really grief was a selfish kind of emotion, that the soul that has moved on is in a better place, on a higher plane, and just where they are meant to be. our grief is all about our loss; our missing them. She thought I was saying that it was ok that they had died, and I said no that's not what I meant... but then again, it is part of life & death & the whole circle,and I DO believe that the soul who has departed is much better off than those of us who are left behind.
ETA - I truly hope that's not offensive to anyone here, and I hope I've explained it properly

In working with energy... for me, it supports the idea of a soul that moves on after the physical death.. that energy doesn't just cease to exist. It's still there.

That might just make me pagan

Fluer... this is what I am having trouble reconciling within myself. I know they are in a better place, I know that they aren' feeling pain. It is my sadness... my loss... and in some ways it is selfish in that it is all about us. It causes us to all sorts of things that we wouldn't normaly do. I still feel that grief, I am still missing her (and others that I have lost) and it is all so raw. A classic case of the heart and head not being on the same page.

I know I will meet her again. I gain strength from that. Damn these human emotions... anyone would think we were having a human experince

OK going to stop there as I am now officially rambling.