The Pagan viewpoint on grief?

[Nettie]

to add to what ive said.... when i say someones path has taken them somewhere that doesnt involve me, i dont think of it as a 'higher plane'

Higher plane of exsistance doesnt sit well with me...sure if someone is a great person they desearve to go to one...but i dont know...i just dont feel comfortable thinking of it like that...makes me uneasy in the stomach. they are just somewhere different to me/us. not better or worse...just different.

To me - 'higher plane' means to progress or move on in the cycle of reincarnation or karmic evolution. Not to go up.. just on. Does that make sense??

[Fleur]

Higher plane (to me) just means the soul is at a different place, unencumbered by human frailties. They are without hate, jealousy, fear. They are in a higher plane, surrounding us with love. Not in the sense of heaven and hell where the good go one way and the bad go another. I guess just surrounding us, not tied to the earthly plane.

Probably as clear as mud

To me - 'higher plane' means to progress or move on in the cycle of reincarnation or karmic evolution. Not to go up.. just on. Does that make sense??

:yeahthat: to both... not literally higher...same as your higher self.

I seem to be having issues getting my point across today - that or people everywhere are being overly sensitive and taking offence to everything lol

So I just wanted to add to my above post that "selfish" doesn't mean "bad"...

I think in our society we are taught that being selfish is bad or wrong, something we don't wish to aspire to. However, I would like to use the word for itself, not for it often misused assumption that those who doing something selfishly are bad...

Just want to clear that up so I don't upset anyone. "Selfish" is simply self-serving, self-oriented... about ones self, with no regard for anyone else.
And when applied to grief, then it is not bad or wrong to be selfish, it is so so personal a thing to experience.
As I said, I think it is selfish, but that isn't bad, and nor does it mean it isn't natural or necessary. It is not something to be stifled or hidden.

I gotcha and I think the argument with my friend years ago was caused by a similar misunderstanding. I think I used the word selfish earlier...and then worried I may have offended. But it is exactly what you said - it just means it's about YOU & how you feel, not the soul who has departed. And it's not bad at all. I would like to think that when I go, I will be missed enough for people to be a bit selfish & sad for themsleves.

[*becstar*]

All this makes so much sense to me and I felt so guilty for being selfish and feeling MY loss, but I guess that's a natural reaction.

What doesn't sit right with me is that lulu was done here, I just can't believe that. I feel she was take. too soon from her children. She worked long and hard with cyclone especially and I just can't see her feeling done.

Am I the only one feeling this?

[Fleur]

I know what you mean becstar... I have been thinking of her kids too, especially Cyclone, doesn't seem like she would be finished.

But if you believe (as Inanna and a few others have said) that we all have a contract when we come here - well what we learn, and what we suffer is part of that as well as what we do & teach.

It's like the idea that we choose our parents, we choose our life lessons.... boy do some of us choose some tough stuff! - then her children have chosen (before they came earthside) to suffer that loss.

Never mind all that, my heart still breaks for them. As an adult, when I suffer I can take some comfort in knowing that it is as it should be, and I have chosen to walk this path, but man it's hard when it's kids that are hurting.

[*becstar*]

Yeah, I understand.....that's just the part that doesn't sit right with my belief YK?

And yes, it's the kids that are breaking my heart, we all miss Lulu but we are adults, we put on our big girl undies and get on with it knowing our lives are richer for knowing her. But the kids.........oh the kids :,( Betty and Cyclone especially. Cyclone will feel it SO much, and just when he was getting into a good place in life That kills me and right now I don't find any comfort in any belief.

I know I will eventually, and in the ME section of how I'm feeling I'm feeling ok. I'm feeling Lu has given me all she could give, I doubt I gave much to her though I know the lesson I was to get from her, and really she can only flog a dead horse so many times

Thanks ladies this thread has been great

[Fleur]

argh dammit... I take it all back .... it's not fair, not fair, not fair

[LimeSlice]

What doesn't sit right with me is that lulu was done here, I just can't believe that. I feel she was take. too soon from her children. She worked long and hard with cyclone especially and I just can't see her feeling done.

But I think that is just it.
It isn't up to us to "feel" done, we don't know anymore than the next person about what it is we are achieving in life, or death. It isn't a conscious or even subconscious decision, it isn't our decision on any earthly level at all.
We would never feel finished. There is always something holding you here, your kids, husband, unfinished ironing, an unread book...
If her children weren't ready, or able to be ready, she wouldn't have gone. Maybe that is why she had DD1 young? So she would be old enough to assume some protective role and be prepared for it.... who knows. But I have no doubt her kids will be just fine. They will flourish with the knowledge of who and what she was and her love for them with be all around them. This experience will set them up to be able to teach someone else in the future and repay that contract.

I feel so so sad for her kids, to miss knowing her as they grow (the little ones) and for DD to miss knowing her mum as an adult and a woman, but I know that all is as it should be, and from this whole experience they will take and have been given something far greater.