My heart goes out to you, I can just imagine how frustrated you must be.
Itsounds like she is testing boundaries and trying to figure out how much control she has, but from what you've said it's not what she really wants. Sounds like she's so focussed on the battle, but possibly what she really needs is the consistency you're trying to give her. She is just struggling against it for now. Or has this been going on for a long time?
Do you have set routine?
Maybe if you tell dd "in half an hour we are going to go outside (when the timer goes off, when the big hand is on the 12, whatever) but we can only stay out for an hour (again, I find "when the timer goes off" to be a brilliant tool, makes it indisputable) and then we have to come inside. lets put your jacket and shoes on now so that you are ready to collect the eggs. If she only comes out with 5 minutes to spare you still go in when the timer on your phone or whatever goes off, and she'll know for tomorrow.
It's hard when they make you so tense, it becomes impossible to enjoy them.
I'm guessing consistency is the key, and making sure she understands what is coming next at all times, but I don't know from experience. I hope someone else has words of wisdom for you.
Hugs and luck to you. Not looking forward to dd hitting this stage,
I have been where you are.... it does get better she will start to understand... it does normally take, a very strong teacher type person to knock it into them... Kindy will help next year, and even better school the year after... ATM she is testing the bounderys and waiting for a weak spot...
your sweet little girl will come back to you, soon, until til then keep doing what your doing, as its the only thing you can do... if there is ever a small little ' good ' thing even if it is very small, be very quick to notice and reward it...
My DD2 is very similar. Only she is a very loud child in every way. It is hard..darn near impossible to do the right thing. You can't just give in whenever she asks. You know that.
I also feel bad for DD, but she is sooo demanding. I have started to wait til she calms down (& I do) & explain to her that when I say no, its no. That simple. Crying won't change it. Of course it goes in one ear & out the other, but hopefully one day it'll sink in.
Not only is she loud & demanding, but so rowdy. She is constantly holding onto the little boys, who are all walking, or picking them up, or just getting right up in their faces. She is clumsy, especially around DS & she also just gets louder & louder til you give in just to shut her up!
The only advise I have is patience. But I don't have much of it myself, so I'm pretty sure you are having trouble with it.
Just know that you are not alone. I too smack on occasion (usually when she refuses to stop annoying the little kids) & yell & scream (thinking it will make her hear me ...maybe even listen). This too shall pass... If it doesn't we can go cry & rock in a corner together
My DS1 does this kind of thing too: 'I want cheese. No, not that cheese, that one' and then when I get the other one; 'No NOT that one, THAT one' (pointing to the original cheese). 'No not cut like that' etc etc. When I realise that he is being difficult for the sake of it I say, nope, that's it, I'm not having this conversation anymore, you can have this peice of cheese that I already cut, or no cheese at all. If he doesn't take the cheese, I pack it all away in the fridge and walk away. He will usually have a meltdown and come running after me, crying for these cheese that got put away. I say firmly but calmly, 'I'll get these cheese back out (or whatever it is he wants) when you stop crying'. I'll repeat myself once, and then ignore him until he calms down. When he calms down I offer him the original piece of cheese and a cuddle. I will also usually stop whatever I'm doing at that point and spend some time with him (ONLY if he calms down, and NEVER before or he will think he can get attention by starting to be difficult) because I have found that the trigger for this kind of behaviour is usually that he's needing some attention and some one-on-one time or a quiet cuddle with mum at the end of a hectic day.
At first his meltdowns would go on and on, but now that he knows the drill - that he gets no cheese (or whatever he's on about) and no attention if he carries on, his being-difficult-on-purpose episodes are much fewer and they are also much quicker and easier to nip in the bud.
What do you think your daughter is trying to get or achieve? Is it possible to give her whatever that is? I mean, without waiting until you can give it as a reward for being good, just give it and see if that helps make her easier to live with. I don't mean give in to one of her demands at the time she's carrying on, because that would reinforce her negative behaviour; what I mean is, figure out what it is that is beneath her behaviour (eg you might figure out it's more one-on-one time with you) and give her some of that.
It sounds to me like she needs to feel like she has more control over some things. We're often scared as parents of letting our kids run the show, but when everything in your life is determined by someone/something else, it can be very frustrating for young children. I don't think it's a bad thing to let kids exercise some control over the day's proceedings, as long as they learn to ask for what they want in a socially acceptable manner (ie, not by kicking and screaming), and can accept that their requests won't always be met. I like the recommendation of around 1/3 of the day determined by the parent, 1/3 determined by the child, and the other 1/3 is negotiated. This way kids learn 4 things: 1. sometimes they don't have a choice & must do as their parents direct; 2. what they want is important and will be listened to if they ask in an appropriate way; 3. how to present a convincing argument for what they want when there is conflict (an important life skill) and 4, how to negotiate, win small concessions, and accept another person 's point of view (another important life skill). I do this with my son and now he's become: very co-operative and accepting that things don't always go his way (98% of the time lol); very good at asking for what he wants; and a skilled negotiator (I love watching him do this.. half the time I'm so I'm happy to give him what he's asked for because he's impressed me with his creativity and ability to think about what I would like in return for giving him what he wants).
If she sees that you're prepared to negotiate with her, but only when she does so in an appropriate way, she might start to be a) more pleasant in her approach, and b) more content in general and less demanding.
HTH.. sorry for such a long post or if it's not on the right track. Best of luck.
Last edited by skeetaboat; October 27th, 2009 at 10:13 PM.
The only thing I can think of is looking up Alfie Kohn's website - lots of articles and references to his book that I've also read ( and really helped me sort out my own childhood as well as consolidate my approach to dealing with my own kids).
Another thing I've found that works really well to increase positive behaviour & decrease the negative stuff is to be quick with positive and negative reinforcement. Eg - she leaves kinda without a fuss, say right away, 'I think we'll go to KFC because I'm so happy that you were a good girl and didn't cry about going home today'. Or another example with my son: he tried to bring play doh into the loungerrom when he knows it's a kitchen toy 'right, I'm packing the play-doh away because you brought it into the loungeroom.' Then 2 mins later I asked if he wanted to play with the play-doh in the kitchen. When he brought it back into the loungeroom, I repeated the same process (and maybe a third time? can't remember). When he finally started to play with it in the kitchen & didn't bring it into the loungeroom, I gave him a square of chocolate & told him how happy I am that he's being a good boy & playing with the play-doh in the kitchen. Doing these small but immediate responses to his behaviour seems to help him learn the appropriate behavioiur pretty quickly & stamp out the negative stuff.
Maybe next time she asks for something you can say 'ok, because you did X (no matter how small initially) and I'm very happy with you for that', or 'no, because you did X and girls who do X don't get Y'. But try to do the former more so than the latter.. you want her to catch on that she gets what she wants when she behaves well, and she won't figure that out until she actually does get things she wants by behaving well. Once she starts to understand the way it works you can bring in the 'no, because you did X and girls who do X don't get Y' in response to negative behaviour. I think it's always good to try to keep it positive, even when responding to the negative behaviour. So when I say no, at the end I'll say something like, 'but we're going shopping this afternoon, so if you're good when we go shopping, then you can have <whatever has been requested>. Then before we arrive at the shops i'll reinforce it: 'remember you didn't get to do X because you did Y this morning?' (wait for acknowledgement), 'ok, but we're going shopping now and if you're a good boy and stay with me without running away while we shop, then afterwards we can do X. How does that sound?'
Sorry.. another long & rambling post. I hope something in there is useful. Keep us posted.
The tanties are hard to deal with - especially when its about anything and everything
I made a pact with dp that we had to jump on each and every tanty or screaming demand (a 'shock and awe' campaign if you will). When he starts up - off to his room. Each and every time - no 2nd chances. Because he knows that not the way to do things.
It was/is very tiring but it gets the point across and he will pull himself in.
He has sensory issues so I can see a meltdown on the way and deal with that in a different way, but the fact remains he must still learn to be a member of the family and society in general...
You know how we were talking about fighting with our brains to stay where we shouldn't be? I think DD does the same (I know ds did), because it's sort of her 'natural' state and even though she doesn't get what she wants or seem happier when she does, she feels more comfortable in that state.
I will send you something to remedy that - it worked for ds, broke the cycle. I nearly cried one day when he skipped past and said "hey mummy - I'm happy!"
I really really like Lara's idea of the timer. You might even do some sort of chart with the routine on it and maybe hands of the clock pointing the time out of when the activity etc starts.
Something else that is working around here recently is asking ds to be a good example, cos he is a BIG boy now, and dd is LITTLE. Lately both kids have been taking pleasure in singing "poos, wees, gina and doodles" or inserting any of those words into normal conversation. Now I just ignore it but it drives dp nuts and he made a big issue of it, therefore cementing the action .
I took ds aside and said I hope he would be a gentleman and ignore it when dd started, to show her how to be grown up like he is. It's working! It also give me a chance to praise him each time he does it.
will get some remedy in the mail to you soon xoxoxo
Have not had much of a chance to implement much due to illness. DD1 was ill, bubs has been ill, now I am ill. The weekend after I posted, we took her to the shop with her coins and she got to buy what she wanted. So she finally got to see the reward of all her good behaviour. Also started with telling her a lot more about what was going to be happening over the following days, thankfully it was a busy time, it seemed to help her, but was offset by constant questions about the things were were doing. There is only so many times you can be asked the same question about a party before you crack it and tell her to be quiet. So now I remember why we stopped telling her about things, even the constants in life like playgroup and childcare require 20 questions in the days leading up to them. Really need to find coping strategies with all the questions or a way to get through to her that so many questions is not needed.
From a life coping point of view I just cannot have the days or the weeks too planned out. This is for many reasons. Main one is that the universe has a way of biting me in the arse when I try to be more organised, guaranteed some disaster big or small will thrown in the way (this really needs its own thread). It just creates more stress for me, which gets me cranky and less able to deal with the demands of DD1. DD2 has her needs, she cannot deal with a full on organised day. Basically we can do one major thing a day, so whether that is playgroup, supermarket shopping, visiting etc, that is it. The rest of the day needs to be spent at home. To much in one day = pure hell.
So I can be organised as such to have one thing a day, then minor things for the rest of the day, but no guarantee they will be done. EG playgroup in morning, then baking in arvo followed by cooking dinner. If I try to throw in some cleaning or gardening, then it will just crash and burn.
Now the food stuff. Just a bit of background. I do basically believe in feeding a child when they are hungry, but the reality of it, especially with DD1, makes if difficult. I used to feed DD1 when she asked and often what she was asking for. I found myself constantly in the kitchen, the food was barely being touched, there was so much wastage and the rest of the house was a disaster along with the kitchen as I had little time for anything else. Also the more I gave her what she wanted the more unhappy she became. So that is why I have become stricter about what she can eat and when. I am not an ala carte restaurant, nor do I have the unlimited budget in order to feed her what ever her heart desires, also I doubt the planet could continue to cope with the amount of waste generated. Currently she does get a certain amount of choice with her food, she can choose her breakfast, often does have a choice of snacks. The rule of fruit generally kicks in when she has had 3 or 4 snacks already, after barely touching her breakfast of choice. I am not ignoring her needs, it is just that I don't believe anymore that she really is that hungry, I think there is something else going on that is causing this. Part of it could be thirst, I often have to remind her to drink. I am an emotional snacker, so I suspect she is too. I have done the whole fruit stick/faces thing, really is just a bandaid, works one or twice, but does not help with the overall issue.
DD1 copes fine at childcare with their structured eating times and limited choices, so I am thinking that I may need to be more organised with food, rather than just thinking up of what to have for lunch on the spot.
Thankfully this month there is an extra playgroup session which is a drop off one, so that will give her more activites to do and fills in a blank in that day.
Oh, I have tried stickers in the past. She just wants them all to stick around the house or on herself, so they just create another tantrum in themselves. It is her usual thing, she gets one, so she wants another. What she gets it is never enough.
So I have a delicate balancing act to work out. It may just be a matter of surviving till next year when kinder starts, as that will mean 3 half days will be filled for her
When DS starts behaving like your DD is atm, I revert straight back to toddler parenting. I give him simple choices between 2 things, if he cracks it he goes straight to his room til he is ready to be nice. When he is being nice again he gets to choose between the 2 things.
Breakfast is always a bowl of whichever cereal is open at the time, no choice, its that or nothing. If he eats it all and is still hungry he gets a piece of fruit, if he eats that and is still hungry he gets a glass of milk. If he is still hungry after all that, I tell him he is not having food til later and I try and divert his attention.
Any tanties are dealt with promptly. DS is told it is his choice, either he does it my way or he goes to his bedroom. If he chooses to tanty still he goes to his bedroom and is not allowed out til he is ready to be nice. He goes through stages where he just feels plain angry. We deal with this by telling him to go to his room and punch his pillows and his bed, when he has finished feeling angry he is welcome to join us again. We have had days when he spends most of his day in his bedroom cracking it, that is his choice, I dont have guilt about it. He is at the point now where if he knows he is gonna crack it, he will just disappear to his from for a few minutes (sometimes we hear him swear quietly to himself, or tell himself its not fair, mum is horrible)but when he comes back out again he is happy, so he is learning what behaviour is acceptable.
Basically any time he is being difficult and starts going into a tanty he goes in his room and we ignore him til he comes out happy again. We have had to be VERY consistent. If he plays up when we are out somewhere, we take him straight home no matter what.
It is easy for me to say all this, but I dont have a baby to deal with as well, so our situations are very different.
Hope you find a way to work things out for your household x
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...maybe even listen).
This too shall pass... If it doesn't we can go cry & rock in a corner together 
I think DD does the same (I know ds did), because it's sort of her 'natural' state and even though she doesn't get what she wants or seem happier when she does, she feels more comfortable in that state.
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